Enjo Kosai : the issue of teenage prostitution

[ghettocities]

you know what the problem is? it's the guys needing to pay for sex, notice ** america has never had such a problem and i don't know any american girls (and i know quite a bit, heh...) who would give one of those infamous "sensual massage (shigeki na massage)" to a salaryman for a half hour to buy a designer handbag. it's pure stupidity and weakness, poverty and the influences of polite slurping.

so be safe, wear a condom! prostitution is illegal in japan, no the age of sexual consent is not twelve, and there is even laws against the whole enjo kosai (aid) even without sex, yet if your a foreigner chances are if you buy a girl lunch one day you'll more than likely get a little something something in return, but remember, as much as japan (tokyo) can seem like a dream it can easily turn into a nightmare, be safe, i made a mistake while i was over there earlier this year being with a girl and returned home with a urinarytract infection, couldnt pee normal for a week, the doctors drew blood to make sure thats all i had and after i had been tested negative for everything except the uti i had to take cipro the same antibiotic they give to people who had anthrax, and thats exactly what "my piece" felt like at the time, so be safe, wear condoms.

p.s. if you don't believe tokyo to have such a crazy nightlife i'm shortly posting clips on my site from the dvd we filmed last/start of this year.

Josh / Ghettocities
Returning to Japan in a few days! fun stuff,

[deborah gormley]

I must agree with all points made by enjeeo and ghetoocities, sex is a dangerous passtime especially when visiting any country and decideing to engage in the act of sex without knowledge of a partners previous history, but with out this knowledge people still engage in this for fun/kicks/security ect, without so much as a thought of the after effects,
Josh you where very honest and truthfull about your previous experience in Japan, and its the truth that needs to be told, to wake people up to the dangers of sex when its not with a longtime partner, Josh you have my admiration
@enjeeo,,, I feel exactly the same way, its a sad way of life,but its a known fact that this is takeing place not just in Japan, some people are just that insecure with there own life that to get money out of someone else's seems to give them a power that they would not usually poccess and how they spend this money ie; handbags,drugs,clothes, food,passport to the stars(hehe) seems to give them some kind of inner power that can only be felt and appreciated by the person (who sells themselves)involved, to us this is totally unrealalistic and this is the reason we cant understand their reasoning

[RockLee]

In Thailand u got this scene also going on.I still don't know how people could do such a thing just to get money for their expensive bags...don't they know if u got a (aru)baito u can earn money too

[Tamer Brad]

Yeesh, this topic is enough to make me not want to live in Japan anymore.

[Ma Cherie]

I see another deep social issue that needs to be taken care of. What would make these girls do this to their bodies, other than the fact that it's being bombarded at them through the media? Peer pressure? Because it's a trend? I wonder.

[Tamer Brad]

I see another deep social issue that needs to be taken care of. What would make these girls do this to their bodies, other than the fact that it's being bombarded at them through the media? Peer pressure? Because it's a trend? I wonder.

Money. Plain and simple.

[PaulTB]

Money. Plain and simple.

Money, but not at all plain and simple. Why is 30 quid for a few accessories so important and why is the means to get it so unimportant? Those are questions of relative values - and not the literal 'price tag' sort.

I also disagree with the "Unique Japanese culture of prostitution" idea with respect to Enjo Kousai. The idea of young girls prostituting themselves on their own behalf is by no means an old established tradition. The very fact that this phenonomen appeared were it didn't previously exist shows a change has taken / is taking place. If anything this change is likely to be Western cultural 'values' - albeit a subsection.

Emphasis on commercialism, brand goods, what money can buy. Bombardment by adverts and magazines featuring sexy models in sexy situations. Aren't these all outcomes (exaggerated in places) of Western influence brought over to Japan since the 2nd world war?

[Maciamo]

Money, but not at all plain and simple. Why is 30 quid for a few accessories so important and why is the means to get it so unimportant? Those are questions of relative values - and not the literal 'price tag' sort.

I agree, especially that it is not difficult to find a job for women in Japanese cities where enjo kosai happen. It's just that it's a quick way of making a lot of money, so many girls prefer it to working at a combini or becoming an OL (or they combine enjo kosai with it).

Another problem is when enjo kosai is done by girls under 15, which I heard is quite common, and getting worse with time (always younger and younger). It is also ununderstandable as their parents would probably have bought them what they want, given that Japanese parents usually spoil their children nowadays.

I also disagree with the "Unique Japanese culture of prostitution" idea with respect to Enjo Kousai. The idea of young girls prostituting themselves on their own behalf is by no means an old established tradition. The very fact that this phenonomen appeared were it didn't previously exist shows a change has taken / is taking place. If anything this change is likely to be Western cultural 'values' - albeit a subsection.

Prostitution has always been better accepted in Japan than in the West. The same is true of nudity. The women's status was also lower before than it is today, which can only play toward a higher rate of prostitution.

However, I agree that a mistaken Western influence has played an important role. I heard many Japanese say that they thought Westerners had sex more casually than the Japanese, which is false. When discussing the enjo kosai problem or the omnipresence of soaplands, porn, etc. I was told that the Japanese thought that Westerners approved even more of that given the freedom that women enjoy in Western countries !! They completely misunderstood what femininism was about. It's justly the opposite, i.e. that women should not be treated as sex objects (in a Japanese mind, it means that women are free to have sex with whoever they want, even to get a promotion or get money ).

Emphasis on commercialism, brand goods, what money can buy. Bombardment by adverts and magazines featuring sexy models in sexy situations. Aren't these all outcomes (exaggerated in places) of Western influence brought over to Japan since the 2nd world war?

I have always had the impression that material goods are more important than "moral values" (e.g. self-respect, pride) in Japan and the rest of East Asia. Maybe that it partly because of the culture of humility, and partly because of collectivism ("everyone is the same, after all"). Rather than enjoying being different, unique or strive for personal achievements to satisfy one's pride, the Japanese enjoy being the same as the rest of the group, to satisfy their recognition from the group or avoid being criticised for being different. This also means that once something becomes accepted by the group, it is difficult to stop it (eg. bicycle & umbrella thefts, enjo kosai, reading porn in trains, etc.), because the "group moral" is stronger than "individual moral".

[isayhello]

Money. Plain and simple.

Not entierly true. Money would be one reason, but there are others.
To feel appreciated, or accepted among friends.
Some might even do it to feel that they have power. The power to attract men who would give you anything to be able to spend time with you.

[nurizeko]

i think a large problem is japans overall apathy towards stopping it, it stops short of openly feeling okay with it, japanese guys just dont seem interested enough in stopping it.

[A.A. Lee]

I disagree that aversion to prostitution is merely the result of Judeo-Christian values. Prostitution is not immoral just because Christians say so. It's bad because for anyone, anywhere you wouldn't want your mother, sister, or daughter to do it, because people, male or female, are worth more than that.

Quite frankly in the Old Testament women were treated like dogs. There were many prostitutes in those times and they were tolerated. The books only speak out against temple prostitutes or priestesses who ***** themselves to idol worshippers. Of course they looked down on whores, but they also looked down on women in general. For the longest time, prostitution was the only viable occupation for many women the world over. Although people looked down on whores, by no means did they put a stop to prostitution or even hindered it, and it flourished in antiquity.

However in modern times, women the world over are seeking equality and pursuing careers in industry. And trust me women who built up their careers look down on whores more than anyone else does. I know I do unless that's the woman's only option. The lives of men and women are going up in value every decade. For instance, nobody in the US had any qualms with slavery 200 hundred years ago, but now it's outlawed nearly everywhere except the most troubled nations.

Prostitution stops when a woman says she's worth more than a few hundred bucks or a LV bag, when she can't be bought. The fact that so many women ***** themselves in Japan testifies to women's low status there.

[budd]

"this topic is enough to make me not want to live in Japan anymore."
men are men anywhere and EVERYWHERE; maybe a vacation at paradise island is in order?

[Tamer Brad]

"this topic is enough to make me not want to live in Japan anymore."
men are men anywhere and EVERYWHERE; maybe a vacation at paradise island is in order?

Ahem, I am a boy

[A.A. Lee]

Aren't these all outcomes (exaggerated in places) of Western influence brought over to Japan since the 2nd world war?

No, prostitution in Asian countries has existed for a long time on a large scale. Overt sexual symbols in the media promoted more flexible attitudes towards sex in the West, but not prostitution. Many women in the West do have sex freely, but that doesn't make them whores.

The phenomenon of enjo kosai cannot be blamed on the West. If this were the case we would hear of Western teenage girls prostituting themselves in large numbers, but this isn't happening. In America, nobody respects a *****. A teenage girl who prostituted herself would automatically lose status no matter how fancy her clothes and accessories are. And the US is the most materialistic country in the world. Enjo kosai results from more lax attitudes towards prostitution in the East, which reflects the lower status of women there.

[Maciamo]

No, prostitution in Asian countries has existed for a long time on a large scale. Overt sexual symbols in the media promoted more flexible attitudes towards sex in the West, but not prostitution. Many women in the West do have sex freely, but that doesn't make them whores.

The phenomenon of enjo kosai cannot be blamed on the West. If this were the case we would hear of Western teenage girls prostituting themselves in large numbers, but this isn't happening. In America, nobody respects a *****. A teenage girl who prostituted herself would automatically lose status no matter how fancy her clothes and accessories are. And the US is the most materialistic country in the world. Enjo kosai results from more lax attitudes towards prostitution in the East, which reflects the lower status of women there.

I totally agree with you here.

[PaulTB]

The phenomenon of enjo kosai cannot be blamed on the West. If this were the case we would hear of Western teenage girls prostituting themselves in large numbers, but this isn't happening.

That doesn't logically follow. Just because influence of country A results in some situation in country B doesn't mean that the same situation is present in country A.

No, prostitution in Asian countries has existed for a long time on a large scale.

Which I'm not disagreeing with. Of course prostitution has also existed for a long time on a large scale in most of the countries of the world.

Overt sexual symbols in the media promoted more flexible attitudes towards sex in the West, but not prostitution.

But as you point out the West isn't the East. The same influence (westernised media sex symbols) doesn't have to have the exact same result.

Many women in the West do have sex freely, but that doesn't make them whores.

Technically I think that makes them sluts.*

In America, nobody respects a *****.

As opposed to sluts.

A teenage girl who prostituted herself would automatically lose status no matter how fancy her clothes and accessories are.

And when found out they lose status like nobody's business in Japan. It's now a fairly common problem for girl who have been involved in Enjo kousai and have pictures / movies get out on the Internet. If you think their status isn't lost you're nuts.

And the US is the most materialistic country in the world. Enjo kosai results from more lax attitudes towards prostitution in the East, which reflects the lower status of women there.

Granting the 'more lax attitudes towards prostitution' that only provides _one_ of the variables. Increased materialism and changing attitudes to sex form two of the others.

* Yes 'slut' is a nasty word - but so is '*****' which you've chosen to throw around.

[nurizeko]

ive always beleieved in the fact that just because an american-european thinks something isnt entirely right, doesnt make it so, and that we shouldnt judge other cultures and interfere beyond reason but....

sometimes their are certain aspects of another countries condition which i just feel cannot be protected by any given excuse.

enjo kasai, teenage prostitution is wrong, smack my opinion down as nothing more then western christian bigotry or whatever all you want, but i feel teenage prostitution is wrong, no matter what the country or culture.

i have friends who smoke pot, i dont care, its their choice, i know of girls who dont sell themselves, but sleep around like a marathon runner runs a race, hey its their choice, but i stop short of under-age girls selling themselves.

i know, im an evil evil man who deserves eternal damnation for my pseudo-christian evilness even though im not christian or of any religious persuasion outside of science and maybe a the odd passing philosophical hypothesis regarding those momments surrounded by nature.

and to a lesser extent, even though im not fond of the openess of this lolicon fetish in japan, and how blatantly avaliable pornographic imagry is in japan, that is somewhat more allowed to be excused by cultural difference.

think of cultural differences in respect to deciding what is just different or whats wrong like this......



if you were a father/mother, would you feel content with your daughter being an item of sexual desire by middle aged salary men ,and the prospect of her selling her body just to afford that accessory or clothing or bag or whatever?



after thinking from this viewpoint, picturing myself as a japanese father, ide still want to punch any dirty old man staring at my 13 year old daughter, but my western evil bias might still be in there somewhere.

[A.A. Lee]

Originally posted by PaulTB:
"That doesn't logically follow. Just because influence of country A results in some situation in country B doesn't mean that the same situation is present in country A."

You said teenage prostitution in Japan was the result of Western influences without mentioning any other reasons. If it were purely the result of Western influences then logically the same thing would happen in the West. But this is not the case and I merely stated this and other reasons why this happens in Japan and not America.

Still your argument does have merit. A lot of girls here work menial jobs to buy more girly crap, which is a total waste of time and effort. While boys are encouraged to play sports and work with tools, girls are encouraged to shop and wear fancy clothes. However shopping just wastes money and fancy clothing doesn't do anything useful. These are all passive activities where you just do what you're told. Gap, Express, and Co tell girls what style to wear and they just follow it. Watching movies and tv is the same way. You're merely a spectator and you have no control over what happens. Unfortunetly the hobbies of many women only consists of shopping, watching movies, and other passive activities. In other words even in the West boys are taught to be more active and competitive, and girls are still taught to be more passive. This means that women are not as prepared to compete in the business world as men.

Fashion is the worst culprit because it fosters low self esteem in girls who do not fit the ideal image that's advertised everywhere. Of course in America, this doesn't lead teenage girls to prostitution as whores are always protrayed as victims and outcasts, but it still undermines the confidence and independent thinking of women. Women also burn up valuable capital on frivolous junk. Fashion companies engender insecurity in girls and then prey on that insecurity to make money. In short, they're evil and women should stop buying their crap.

[AngkorianKnight]

I haven't read the whole thread, just some on the first page, but this clarifies a lot of things up for me. I guess they really want the cash (to buy stuff) so they can at least have what their friends have or something of that nature. I never understood why some people are very materialistic.

[Pachipro]

On average the Japanese are very materialistic. To them, sporting a brand name item is more important than anything. It kind of shows that they have "class" or that they are "hip". For some reason, most Japanese women MUST have name brand handbags, scarfs, perfume, etc. and to acquire these items some young Japanese women do turn to prostitution or find a "sugar daddy" in order to flaunt these items in public. Others may work as hostesses at night in order to earn the extra cash to afford these items. Men will also do the same by spending most of their hard earned money for name brand items like golf clubs, belts, colognes; etc. Just look at the thread about the Mandom commercial for what we would call in the states "Baby Wipes". If it's cool and "talents" are using them then they must have it regardless of the cost.

I have dated and known quite a few women who felt this way and who spent all their hard earned money in the persuit of these items. It is something I have never completely understood. Needless to say these relationships never lasted very long after I found out what was "important" to them.

[bossel]

I split the thread, the issue of generally "legalising prostitution" can be found here.

[Reiko_no_Tabi]

Gah, reading all this makes me glad I believe until waiting until I'm married to have sex. *Never will that ideal waver...* But in response to

Prostitution stops when a woman says she's worth more than a few hundred bucks or a LV bag, when she can't be bought.

I have to say you put it perfectly. That statement resonated with me more than any other I've read.