Is Japan an intellectual country ?

[Yo_Yo]

Japan's strength has always been emulating great cultures,Japanese have never surpassed their cultural masters to this day unlike US could leap frogged Western Europe post WW 2 as the leader of modern industrial world in innovations.

[Erekose]

I fail to see how the quantity of prizes designates a people as intellectual or not.
Most Japanese I have spent time with, most notably my wife, have shown exceptional intelligence, curiosity, and talent.
What is different about the Japanese in my opinion is that they lack the overt competitive nature that many of us in the West associate with capacity or ability to compete or achieve. I've heard many stories of significant discoveries and accomplishments by Japanese in Japan that go largely unnoticed because they simply do not have the desire to applaud themselves. In is an essential difference in personality, not ability.
I have had extraordinary conversations with my wife about philosophy, religion, politics, and economics. What makes her different is of course her unique personality, but perhaps more so our depth of understanding which we share. Japanese I have become close to reveal similar characteristics.

[gaijinalways]

As Maciamo already stated, the title needs to be changed.
Perhaps 'Is inventive science highly valued in Japanese society?'
Strangely enough, the person with the most US patents in the world is a Japanese, Shunpei Yamazaki.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columni...3-patent_x.htm

Note that almost all of his patents are related to IT hardware, particularly chip design.
For companies holding paents worldwide, it's IBM, a US company.

[Maciamo]

Most Japanese I have spent time with, most notably my wife, have shown exceptional intelligence, curiosity, and talent.

This kind of remark only gives an appreciation of your own level of intelligence, curiosity, and talent, not the Japanese.

I've heard many stories of significant discoveries and accomplishments by Japanese in Japan that go largely unnoticed because they simply do not have the desire to applaud themselves. In is an essential difference in personality, not ability.

Which ones have you heard of ?

[Toru Ranryu]

Then if we look at really important post-WWII inventions like the audio tape, the walkman, the video tape, the CD, the CD-ROM, contact lenses, etc., they are all European inventions.

CDs (not CD-ROMs) were invented in a collaborative effort between Philips and Sony. I recommend reading The Compact Disc Story by Kees Immink. It would be nice if you would fact-check before you post complete misapprehensions like this.

Sony launched their videocassette format "U-matic" in 1971. Philips didn't introduce their version called "VCR" until 1972.

Walkman is wholly a Japanese invention. Even the word Walkman is the brand name used by Sony.

I don't think that Japan 80 or 100 years ago was most scientifically backward than Western countries 200, 300 or 400 years ago. Yet, Western countries did invent such things as the mechanical clock, the thermometer and barometer, the microscope or the steam engine over 300 years ago.

The nature of things is that inventions can only be made if people don't know about them. It's pretty silly to blame Japan for not inventing things they were already using at the time.

Engineering is putting in practice the laws of sciences. It's mostly a matter of financial means...

I asked a question about the difference between inventive science and engineering. Now you have defined "engineering" (and added a piece of personal opinion which I will ignore because it's so obviously uninformed) but you forgot to provide a definition of inventive science. Perhaps you'll allow me to do it for you? Inventive Science is the act of creating new machines, devices or systems by applying scientific principles. In other words, it's a branch of engineering under your very own definition...

[Maciamo]

CDs (not CD-ROMs) were invented in a collaborative effort between Philips and Sony. I recommend reading The Compact Disc Story by Kees Immink. It would be nice if you would fact-check before you post complete misapprehensions like this.

I did check it twice. I guess my sources were wrong. Anyway, you were as wrong to say that Sony/Japan was its sole invetor. However I was right about the CD-ROM being also developed by Philips and Sony. Sources 1, Sources 2

So I could as well tell you "It would be nice if you would fact-check before you post complete misapprehensions like this."

Sony launched their videocassette format "U-matic" in 1971. Philips didn't introduce their version called "VCR" until 1972.

Sorry I meant Philips invented the VCR, the only videocassette system widely used around the world.

Walkman is wholly a Japanese invention. Even the word Walkman is the brand name used by Sony.

This is a fiction. A German, Andreas Pavel invented it 2 years before Sony. Sony recently acknowledged this. The word Walkman is indeed Sony's brand name, so I should speak of "portable personal stereo cassette player" (it's easier to say "Walkman"). Pavel called his invention the "stereobelt".

The nature of things is that inventions can only be made if people don't know about them. It's pretty silly to blame Japan for not inventing things they were already using at the time.

The history of human inventions goes back to the earliest days of civilisation, and even before that (well, for tools, weapons and a few basic stuff). I have never pretended to rate the inventiveness of contemporary Japan only, but the whole Japanese culture since its very beginnings. Most of the notable inventions of which we know the exact origin (inventor's name and precise year of invention) were made in the last 700 years, I didn't go back to ancient times in Europe. The Greeks and Romans also had loads of great inventions, but maybe less relevant for life today. It is the same of the Chinese, or the Japanese. Modern society has been shaped almost exclusively by Western inventions from the late Middle Ages onwards.

My question is, why a country like Japan, that has an age-old reputation for the organisation of its society, refined customs and high literacy, didn't manage to develop more sophisticated technologies. Why does it take a single Englishman (William Adams), 400 years ago, to teach them about geography, navigation, building of ocean-faring ships, artillery, etc., which the Japanese learned quickly to copy, but never thought about themselves ? Why are all significant inventions until the late 20th-century concentrated in a few Western countries, and that Japan, China, and most of the rest of the world almost didn't contribute to anything to modern society ?

I find the bickering about the CD and CD-ROM issue pointless for this discussion. My intention was to find an answer to the question : why is our world shaped by Western sciences, technologies, systems and ideas, and not Asian ones or others ?

[Toru Ranryu]

• I never said Japan was the sole inventor of the CD. This was in a reply to a post where it was strongly implied that Japan had nothing to do with it.
• I didn't express myself clearly about the CD-ROM, but now that you mention it, it's probably more fair to give Sony full credit for inventing the CD-ROM. Sure, Philips and Sony published the yellow book together, but that's most likely for contractual reasons. A CD-ROM is physically the same as a CD, and the only difference is in the data storage structure. Computer programs are more sensitive to errors so the CD-ROM standard has to be less error-prone than an audio CD. In his text Kes Immink explains that Philips was mostly responsible for the physical CD, whereas Sony contributed with such things as the error-correction methods. In other words, of the two companies Sony was the only one with the expertise necessary to take the next step and develop CD-ROMs.
• You're confusing VCR with VHS, which is the most widely used videocassette format. VHS was introduced by JVC in 1976. By the way, JVC is a Japanese company. So any way you look at it Japan invented the videocassette.
• I strongly doubt that Sony was aware of Andreas Pavel's invention at the time the walkman was invented. Most likely they invented similar things independently, with the main difference that the Japanese were able to turn their idea into reality. Incidentally, by the same standard you should recognize Japan as the inventor of the floppy disc.

So in fact my post didn't really contain any factual errors, and the few points needing further clarification strengthened rather than weakened my case: Japan has made several notable inventions during the last century. I'm glad you finally admit that. If you want to change this into a discussion about history, why don't you post it in the History sub-forum?

[Maciamo]

Japan's strength has always been emulating great cultures,Japanese have never surpassed their cultural masters to this day unlike US could leap frogged Western Europe post WW 2 as the leader of modern industrial world in innovations.

Do you mean that the UA were more innovative than Western Europe since the end of WWII ? First of all, you should check where scientists and inventors in the US come from (many are European, working in the US because it is better paid). Do not confuse people working in the USA and US citizen. Then if we look at really important post-WWII inventions like the audio tape, the walkman, the video tape, the CD, the CD-ROM, contact lenses, etc., they are all European inventions. The only two major post-WWII American inventions I can think of are the microwave oven and the photocopier. In fact, the USA's most inventive period was from its independence to WWI. => see great inventions by country and chronological order

So, what exactly is the difference between "inventive science" and "engineering"?

Engineering is putting in practice the laws of sciences. It's mostly a matter of financial means...

All those inventions were made at least 80 years ago! At that time Japan was far behind the West in scientific knowledge, but that is hardly relevant when discussing Japanese inventiveness today.

I don't think that Japan 80 or 100 years ago was most scientifically backward than Western countries 200, 300 or 400 years ago. Yet, Western countries did invent such things as the mechanical clock, the thermometer and barometer, the microscope or the steam engine over 300 years ago. How comes than even in the 20th century Japan, with more scientfic knowledge and a bigger population and economic power than the whole West combined 300 years ago, didn't come out with more notable inventions ? I can only think of the quartz watch, invented by Seiko in 1969, and the Minidisk (already almost obsolete) invented by Sony in 1991.

Maciamo claims that since inventions such as cars, trains, telephones and television where not made in Japan, Japanese people are not good at making inventions. That is ridiculous! All those inventions were made at least 80 years ago! At that time Japan was far behind the West in scientific knowledge, but that is hardly relevant when discussing Japanese inventiveness today.
Actually, Japan did invent the CD player, and they made the first commercial videocassette recorder.

This is incorrect. Philips, a Dutch company invented both the CD player and the videocassette recorder. However, Sony did work with Philips to develop the CD-ROM.