Are Japanese more hypocritical with foreigners ?

[Azuma_Fujin]

You all find it hard as a man in Japan but you try being a foreign wife of a Japanese man! That's even worse.

Just to clarify, i started learning Japanes ein year 8 in high school (when i was 13) and maintained an interest right up until now. I completed a 1 year diploma and then went to university for 4 years with Japanese language and culture as my major. So i am by no means ignorant of Japanese culture and customs. I also speak very good Japanese. I also studied up on all the little do's and don'ts before i went to Japan with my husband so as not to embarrass him nor make a fool of myself.

Someone on this thread mentioned that women in Japan are not treated very highly. Boy is that an understatement! My husband's family all knew my study history and knew i could speak Japanese very well, but when they wanted to know something about me, they always ask my husband about it, not to me, even when i am there in front of them. He asks me, and in some instances i have replied directly to them, but they still wait for my husband to give them the answer! The last time we went to Japan and this happened again i got so angry at my husband and told him that basically, in my eyes, he wasn't supporting me very well. He should say to them "well, she speaks and understands Japanese well, so why don't you ask her, not me?" but he said to say that would be very impolite, especially as they are older members of his family. Well hello but i'm his family too!

At other times we have visited his former colleagues and most of the time they ignore me. I have only experienced one time where the guy engaged in conversation (in japanese) with me. They talk about me like i don't exist. I also was expected to stay at home with the in-laws while my husband went out for drinks with his friends. In my country (australia) wives go out with their husbands for drinks with the friends, we don't get shut away in the closet at home like a hermit.

I also hate the thing in Japan where when you sit next to someone on the train, they get up and move. My husband says it's because i'm non-japanese and they can't speak english and they are afraid i might speak to them and they won't be able to understand or respond. Is it really that scary?? I've sat next to Chinese people or non-Australians in china, and i didn't feel scared even though i don't speak chinese! Just because i sit next to someone doesn't mean i want to talk to them. What kind of weirdo do you take me for? I'm no stalker!

I have a lot of criticisms of Japanese people and not only in Japan. Especially when they come to my country i feel very annoyed. They seem very rude, especially in supermarkets, they do not say excuse me when they want to get past, they just squeeze past me, and if they knock me or step on my toe, they never say sorry. They might not speak english, even if they don't, would it hurt to just acknowledge you stepped on my toe? I don't think it's so hard.

I also find alot of Japanese tourists, especially when travelling to tourist destinations ignore the rules either because they can't understand, or they just can't be bothered and are too busy talking. I was on the ferry to rottnest island and the captain told us explicitly to stay seated until the ferry had docked. As soon as the ferry was near to docking all the Japanese stood up and rushed to the exits, but because the ferry was still rocking some of them fell over and hurt themselves, then blamed the ferry people, when in fact it was their fault because they didn't listen. There are so many instances like this, and i'm not out to get the Japanese, because half my family are Japanese now, and i'm married to one, but i guess i just am more aware of how annoying and ignorant these people are. God forbid if i ever have to live in Japan, which is likely, as my husband is the first and only son (meaning he has to look after his parents)! I know that i would hate living in Japan full-time. They are so backwards. With all their technological advances, my mother in law doesn't even have a bath/shower or even an oven!

Anyways, that's my rant. But you guys have it easy. At least they are speaking to you if even only about chopsticks! I get totally ignored!

[FrustratedDave]

You all find it hard as a man in Japan but you try being a foreign wife of a Japanese man! That's even worse.
Just to clarify, i started learning Japanes ein year 8 in high school (when i was 13) and maintained an interest right up until now. I completed a 1 year diploma and then went to university for 4 years with Japanese language and culture as my major. So i am by no means ignorant of Japanese culture and customs. I also speak very good Japanese. I also studied up on all the little do's and don'ts before i went to Japan with my husband so as not to embarrass him nor make a fool of myself.
Someone on this thread mentioned that women in Japan are not treated very highly. Boy is that an understatement! My husband's family all knew my study history and knew i could speak Japanese very well, but when they wanted to know something about me, they always ask my husband about it, not to me, even when i am there in front of them. He asks me, and in some instances i have replied directly to them, but they still wait for my husband to give them the answer! The last time we went to Japan and this happened again i got so angry at my husband and told him that basically, in my eyes, he wasn't supporting me very well. He should say to them "well, she speaks and understands Japanese well, so why don't you ask her, not me?" but he said to say that would be very impolite, especially as they are older members of his family. Well hello but i'm his family too!
At other times we have visited his former colleagues and most of the time they ignore me. I have only experienced one time where the guy engaged in conversation (in japanese) with me. They talk about me like i don't exist. I also was expected to stay at home with the in-laws while my husband went out for drinks with his friends. In my country (australia) wives go out with their husbands for drinks with the friends, we don't get shut away in the closet at home like a hermit.
I also hate the thing in Japan where when you sit next to someone on the train, they get up and move. My husband says it's because i'm non-japanese and they can't speak english and they are afraid i might speak to them and they won't be able to understand or respond. Is it really that scary?? I've sat next to Chinese people or non-Australians in china, and i didn't feel scared even though i don't speak chinese! Just because i sit next to someone doesn't mean i want to talk to them. What kind of weirdo do you take me for? I'm no stalker!
I have a lot of criticisms of Japanese people and not only in Japan. Especially when they come to my country i feel very annoyed. They seem very rude, especially in supermarkets, they do not say excuse me when they want to get past, they just squeeze past me, and if they knock me or step on my toe, they never say sorry. They might not speak english, even if they don't, would it hurt to just acknowledge you stepped on my toe? I don't think it's so hard.
I also find alot of Japanese tourists, especially when travelling to tourist destinations ignore the rules either because they can't understand, or they just can't be bothered and are too busy talking. I was on the ferry to rottnest island and the captain told us explicitly to stay seated until the ferry had docked. As soon as the ferry was near to docking all the Japanese stood up and rushed to the exits, but because the ferry was still rocking some of them fell over and hurt themselves, then blamed the ferry people, when in fact it was their fault because they didn't listen. There are so many instances like this, and i'm not out to get the Japanese, because half my family are Japanese now, and i'm married to one, but i guess i just am more aware of how annoying and ignorant these people are. God forbid if i ever have to live in Japan, which is likely, as my husband is the first and only son (meaning he has to look after his parents)! I know that i would hate living in Japan full-time. They are so backwards. With all their technological advances, my mother in law doesn't even have a bath/shower or even an oven!
Anyways, that's my rant. But you guys have it easy. At least they are speaking to you if even only about chopsticks! I get totally ignored!

Male or female, things are difficult for any foriegner living in Japan in a situation like you described.

All I can say is you have a lot to learn. You can study the culture all you want and still not even come close to understanding it. It doesn't sound like you want to even try to be accepted in this culture, but if you do you need to throw out all of your values and what you think is common sense that you have been taught up until now and start all over. If not you will always have things that bother you.

As for your family not speaking dirrectly to you, I don't know the situation and how good your Japanese is ,but I can understand why they are speaking to through your husband. The reason is most likely b/c they are asking your husband about you and not actually asking you, so if this is the case it will have nothing to do with your ability to speak Japanese well. And if you are just meeting them for the first few times it wouldn't matter if you told them you were Japanese in a previous life, they will always be hesitant to ask you b/c unlike you most people here will shy away from awkward situations and naturaly go the route that they feel comfortable with. Once they become more comfortable with you they will speak to you in their own good time Again this has nothing to do with you. But you sound like a typical foriegner who always thinks it is about ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME and has no patience. That is another thing, if you are being aggitated in front of them they will read you like a book and be less inclined to want to address you, which you will have to realise that it may be your fault in the end.

Anyway, for your many years of study on Japanese culture you seem to be show quite a lack of understanding on your part, maybe you will find my advise helpful or just a kick in the face, I will leave it up to you.

[ASHIKAGA]

Mrs. Azuma, I understand your frustration regarding your husband's family members not addressing you directly. Although I agree with FrustratedDave about his family not being used to dealing with non-Japanese or just being shy, I really think your husband should say something to them, or at least give you a better explanation why especially when he knows his wife is annoyed and offended by their actions. There was another thread talking about this very issue (Japanese people not addressing foreigners directly when they are accompanied by Japanese) and it seems like a common behavior among some Japanese people.

Another thing is, some Japanese families, especially old, traditional ones tend to take their time warming up to ANY newcomers to their family no matter if they are foreigners or Japanese. It has to be one of the biggest complaints Japanese wives have about their marriages : not being accepted/approved by their families in law. I really hope by moving to Japan, getting to know your new family better and having them do the same about you, you will have a better relationship/understanding about each other. I just want you to know not every Japanese families are like that and older folks tend to take longer to warm up to someone who is very different from them. Having said that, I don't think you should "keep quiet" about how you feel. I believe it is very important for your husband's family to know how their actions (intended or not) make you feel. The question is how to go about it.

Now, about the Japanese tourists abroad.... I guess you could say the same thing about tourists from many different countries. It has a lot to do with the fact they are traveling in groups (and Japanese tourists tend to do that a lot), I think. Poeple in groups tend to do things that they would not do individually, no?

Lastly, what does all this have to do with Japanese being hypocritical with foreigners?

[Azuma_Fujin]

Male or female, things are difficult for any foriegner living in Japan in a situation like you described.
All I can say is you have a lot to learn. You can study the culture all you want and still not even come close to understanding it. It doesn't sound like you want to even try to be accepted in this culture, but if you do you need to throw out all of your values and what you think is common sense that you have been taught up until now and start all over. If not you will always have things that bother you.
As for your family not speaking dirrectly to you, I don't know the situation and how good your Japanese is ,but I can understand why they are speaking to through your husband. The reason is most likely b/c they are asking your husband about you and not actually asking you, so if this is the case it will have nothing to do with your ability to speak Japanese well. And if you are just meeting them for the first few times it wouldn't matter if you told them you were Japanese in a previous life, they will always be hesitant to ask you b/c unlike you most people here will shy away from awkward situations and naturaly go the route that they feel comfortable with. Once they become more comfortable with you they will speak to you in their own good time Again this has nothing to do with you. But you sound like a typical foriegner who always thinks it is about ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME and has no patience. That is another thing, if you are being aggitated in front of them they will read you like a book and be less inclined to want to address you, which you will have to realise that it may be your fault in the end.
Anyway, for your many years of study on Japanese culture you seem to be show quite a lack of understanding on your part, maybe you will find my advise helpful or just a kick in the face, I will leave it up to you.

Firstly, i was talking about foreign wives of Japanese, not just "any" foreigner.
Secondly, having been married to a Japanese man for 6 years and spending a good chunk of time lbetween both countries, i'm pretty sure i understand a great deal.
Don't judge me frustrated dave. I am expressing my experiences and you come on here and judge me, yet you know nothing about my life.
You think you understand why my family is speaking through my husband, well they still do it, and this is 6 years later, having lived in Japan for some time every year. If that's not rudeness i don't know what is. I'm not some naive little girl, i'm a 30 year old woman who has ALOT of experience around Japanese people. They were not asking about me they were asking my husband "ask kelly what she thinks about such and such" instead of asking me directly.
"I sound like a typical foreigner?", sorry but i'm not a foreigner, i'm a family member. And just to clarify, i get on with my mother and father in law very well, in fact we speak on the phone every week and they often want to talk to me INSTEAD of their own son. So before you go judging people you should get the facts. If i was an unlikeable, just another irritating foreigner, do you think they would have accepted me like this? I don't think so. If i was all about me me me, do you think they would want to have anything to do with me? I don't think so! In fact i got a note from them about two weeks ago thanking me for everything i had done for them over the years and for always thinking about them so much.
Your comments are not a kick in the face or education because i don't need either. I think it's just another comment by a small-minded insecure individual who feels the need to pick on other people's situations to make themselves feel better.
As you're a man you would have no idea what it's like to be a woman in japan, let alone a foreign wife, so you can see it objectively but not subjectively so you really have no idea the emotional side of what i am talking about.
However, i have quite a few friends in Japan who are aussie/american women married to japanese guys and they all have the same problems as me, so either we are just a bunch of whingeing ignoramases, or the phenomenon is real.

[FrustratedDave]

Firstly, i was talking about foreign wives of Japanese, not just "any" foreigner.
Secondly, having been married to a Japanese man for 6 years and spending a good chunk of time lbetween both countries, i'm pretty sure i understand a great deal.

Yes I am sure you think you do too. Just like when I had been in Japan for 6 years straight, I knew everything about everything b/c I was so experienced. Now a further 9 years down the track I am not so sure I know a lot about Japan and the way people act and its culture, But I sure do know a lot more than when I was here after only six years. All I can say is that I am not so arrogant to think I know how someone from another country should act or how other person should act full stop. And how long was that chunck of time...? I am betting it was not that long... And just b/c you are married to a Japanese person does not automatically make you savy on that persons culture, another arogant statement.

Don't judge me frustrated dave. I am expressing my experiences and you come on here and judge me, yet you know nothing about my life.
You think you understand why my family is speaking through my husband, well they still do it, and this is 6 years later, having lived in Japan for some time every year. If that's not rudeness i don't know what is. I'm not some naive little girl, i'm a 30 year old woman who has ALOT of experience around Japanese people. They were not asking about me they were asking my husband "ask kelly what she thinks about such and such" instead of asking me directly.

I am sorry, it just sounds like you have not had much face time with your family, which I stated earlier that I did not know how long you had to get to know your family so I would would not consider that being judgmental, that is just how you came across. And if you think that them asking your husband about what you think is being rude then I think you have married into the wrong nationality, I have know my family and lived in a house that is connected to theirs for about 15 years now and I still have them ask my wife what I want half the time and the other half they ask me.(maybe I should expect them to ask me all the time, I mean thats what I think should happen so that is the way they should act b/c I am always right... BTW, I don't really think that way, I was just trying to be sarcastic) And I refuse to believe that they have never once had a general conversation with you to your face if you say that they talk to you on the phone.

"I sound like a typical foreigner?", sorry but i'm not a foreigner, i'm a family member.

Wow... thats a great way to look at it... why did I not think of that... But the sad fact is that you sound like all the other whinging foriegners who can't get a reasonable grasp on the way things tick here in Japan. Those who do usually end up leading a relatively stress free life , while those who don't could never live here and usually go home with a bad taste in their mouth b/c that failed to connect with the fact that their cultural values are completely different to the cultural values of most Japanese.

And just to clarify, i get on with my mother and father in law very well, in fact we speak on the phone every week and they often want to talk to me INSTEAD of their own son.

So things are not as bad as you are making them out to be... That is a relief, and here I thought they would not talk to you without going through your husband first.

So before you go judging people you should get the facts. If i was an unlikeable, just another irritating foreigner, do you think they would have accepted me like this? I don't think so. If i was all about me me me, do you think they would want to have anything to do with me? I don't think so! In fact i got a note from them about two weeks ago thanking me for everything i had done for them over the years and for always thinking about them so much.

I don't follow... you said they were being rude to you by not acting as if you were part of their family, but yet they go to the trouble to write you a letter thanking you for all the things you have done over the years. To me this shows them accepting you as part of the family. You need to accept the fact that most people find indirect communication easier than face to face commuication. It sounds like that there are still things that your inlaws are finding difficult to become accustomed to when it comes to commuicating with you face to face(that is if you are telling the whole story), b/c I don't see them as people who have not accepted them into your family. You need to learn how to show some patience and forgiveness , b/c it could take them another six years for them to be confortable with those aspects. But what it comes down to is differing cultures and people being thrown together and everyone is doing the best they can with what they have.

Your comments are not a kick in the face or education because i don't need either. I think it's just another comment by a small-minded insecure individual who feels the need to pick on other people's situations to make themselves feel better.

LOL A typical statment from someone who is all of the above. Why are you so angry at the world? And I don't need to make light of other peoples situations to make me feel better, b/c I have two beautiful kids and a wife that I love with all my heart and that is all I need in this world to make me happy.

As you're a man you would have no idea what it's like to be a woman in japan, let alone a foreign wife, so you can see it objectively but not subjectively so you really have no idea the emotional side of what i am talking about.

Yep... you just about summed it up, I will remmember to tell the other 4 mixed marrige families with forigner wives that I have regular contact with over the last 15 years to read your post. One couple has been married for 29 years this december, but nah... she knows nothing about living in Japan for nearly 40 years and being married to Japanese man.

However, i have quite a few friends in Japan who are aussie/american women married to japanese guys and they all have the same problems as me, so either we are just a bunch of whingeing ignoramases, or the phenomenon is real.

I won't put it how you desricbed , but if they feel like you do then I guess they are some more people who are unable to grasp the way some things work here.

[Pachipro]

As I am not a foreign woman, I have no understanding how they feel at their treatment in Japan so I can only give my own opinion. It is rare to read of a foreign woman who is completely happy after marrying a Japanese male as most are very frustrated.

The question that comes to my mind first, Azuma_Fujin, is, if you were so educated about Japanese culture and life then why would you have married in the first place knowing full well the cultural ramifications? Did you expect your husband to magically change from a Japanese into a foreigner and his family to do likewise to meet your expectations? Of course yopu probably didn't, but it sure sounds that way.

It seems you are not willing to be flexible and, because you are a foreigner you expect all Japanese to treat you as you would be treated in your home country by your own people. Well it just does not work that way as you have to come to understand.

In your own blog you stated your disgust (and severe lack of understanding of Japanese culture) at your father-in-law, mother-in-law, and your husband being served in a restaurant before you and that your father-in-law started eating before anyone else and that you did not understand why he was served first even at family meals. You even stated that you would never allow him to do that if he came to visit you. Well, if you did that you would be severely insulting them as well as your husband. Why would you want to do that? To prove a point?

If you knew anything about Japanese culture, you would know that is a custom and tradition that the elder male is ALWAYS served first. Whether you like it or not, it is the way it is so, being married to a Japanese you should understand that or why would anyone marry a Japanese in the first place especially when they claim to know all about the culture and then complain about it afterwards?

Since you are on such great terms with your in-laws on the phone and such, why not speak directly to them and express your frustration? You could help educate them about your culture. Maybe they'll understand, maybe they won't, but it would sure would help in the long run.

In these types of international marriages one must be flexible and understanding no matter how much they may disagree with it.

In my own marriage, my Japanese wife is very independent and is not at all subservient to me here in the states. We are equals and I would not have it any other way. However, when we return to Japan to visit the in-laws, she completely changes and becomes the subservient wife where I am served first and she even pours my beer for me! Once, when my glass was empty, her mother said to her, "His glass is empty! Fill it!" or, when I wake up, she is expected to drop everything and serve me my breakfast! and she complies. Afterwards we laugh about it, but like she says, in front of her parents, she is expected to comply with the customs.

Even when just the two of us went to a hot springs resort once, and the meal was being served in our room, it was I who was served first, even though I am a foreigner. Once, when I was in the onsen before dinner, the maid said "We'll wait for the 'master' to come back before serving the meal. Again, we had a good laugh over this and always do.

Neither of us agree with it but, as you said on your own blog, in your own words, "there is a great saying that 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do', which I love. I just think it exemplifies what going to another country is all about."

Therefore, I believe that you should live by those words which you believe in and not be so upset when in Japan that the elders, including your husband gets served first. Also, since your husband is the eldest and is expected to take care of his parents you may have to move back there as you also mentioned in your blog and, without a complete understanding of the culture, I do not see your marriage lasting too long if you are not flexible and understanding.

The role of a daughter-in-law, especially a foreign one, in Japan is not a great one, but a little understanding, patience and acceptance on your part and the willingness of your husband to teach his parents about the foreign culture he married into, as well as their understanding, may help to make your marriage and living in/visiting Japan a more enjoyable experience. You do't have to become Japanese, nor am I suggesting that, but there must be a meeting point of the culture and customs somewhere or you will just drive yourself crazy and be perpetually frustrated. Good luck!

[Chidoriashi]

I know that i would hate living in Japan full-time. They are so backwards. With all their technological advances, my mother in law doesn't even have a bath/shower or even an oven!

Azuma> It's comments like these that are leading people to believe you are ignorant to Japanese culture. Anybody who has spent some time here would know that Japanese typically don't have ovens like in the west. Why? because it is not something that typically plays a big role in Japanese cooking. I would think you would know that. Anyway, this shows that you are judging them from your own cultural context. They don't do things like I do so that makes them backwards... You cannot possibly hope to get along well in Japan with that attitude.

And saying that Japan is so technologically advanced sounds like a fairly ignorant foreigners stereotypical image of Japan.

Well it is fine to rant about your problems, all foreigners have them here, but like I said before, a little patience and trying to see things from a Japanese point of view would help you a lot I think.

[Pachipro]

Azuma_Fujin, there is a woman on JREF who has been a member for many years by the name of kirei_na_me who has been married to a Japanese man for about ten years now and has two children. Although she has never been to Japan she received a visit from her husbands parents about three years ago and explained her anxiousness at their visit and what the outcome was. She also has posted on the various frustrations she has felt in being married to a Japanese man. I think you should click on the link and explore some of her posts. It may offer insight and I believe you will have a lot in common with her. Maybe she will post a comment on this thread if she sees it.

There is also another person married to a Japanese man by the name of Goldiegirl who has also expressed her feelings in various threads. Athough she has not been on in a while, she will probably post if she sees this thread. We sure do need more threads/posts dealing with foreign womens' feelings, frustrations, happiness, etc, in being married to Japanese men as it would be educational for all I believe as we all know too well the foreign male perspective. I believe you will have alot in common with both women.

Pachipro, i just want to reply to you first, yes i believe in when in rome do as the romans do, so my father-in-law when he comes here should wait until everyone is served before starting to eat, that is the way it is done here, or in my family at least, and around my friends houses.

I agree to an extent in that they should follow the custom of the country they are visiting, but can they? Are they flexible enough to comply and do they understand the phrase "When in Rome...." or is that just a western concept? And why shoud they be expected to when they are visiting a "family member"?

In my own case, my in-laws never visited the US as my father-in-law passed away about 13 years ago and he so much wanted to visit and my mother-in-law will never visit alone. However, were they to visit I wouldn't change anything and we would eat at the table as is expected in this country, but I would also have the option of accomidating them in the manner they were comfortable with if the need arose and that would be eating at the coffee table on the floor and putting mattresses on the floor if it made them more comfortable to sleep. And of course the father would always be served first because I am a member of their family and will abide by the custom regardless of where I am living.

On the other hand, when I got married in Japan, my mother visited for the wedding and she, being a large woman, could not possibly be comfortable on the floor eating or taking a Japanese bath, so we accomidated her by giving her our bed and we ate at the kitchen table where she was more comfortable. My wife did not insist that she conform to Japanese custom because "When in Rome...." and my mother, being the elder, was served first by my wife.

Also, when my mother visited the in-laws home after the marriage, they went out of their way to see that she was treated as she would be in her own country by moving their kitchen table and chairs into the six mat room (which really looked awkward and out of place) so she could be comfortable. They did not insist that she eat on the floor and eat Japanese food as they served her the food she was accustomed to. I really respected them for going out of their way to ensure that my mother was comfortable and, honestly, I never expected it as I warned my mother to be prepared to eat on the floor as that was they way they did it in their house. I was quite shocked to see the kitchen table set up in that room with chairs and all! Also, being the guest, she was served first and my father-in-law even poured her beer which really took me by surprise! My mother was treated like a queen by my in-laws and I had to take a step back and admire and respect them for what they did as it was a complete surprise and totally unexpected.

Now, had I been married to a different Japanese woman would the outcome have been the same? I honestly don't know. I can only relate what I have experienced as it may have completely different with another woman and her family.

This may be an isolated case, but I don't know. My in-laws knew no English and nothing of western culture save for what they learned in the short time from my wife and I. However, with translation on our part, they all had a wonderful time and really bonded. I even had to express my surprise to my own mother when she said, "I thought you said I had to eat on the floor!"

The point here, I guess, is flexibility in treating people as a member of the family no matter what country you are residing in; from both sides. And, since you mentioned that you are a member of their family now, I believe you should treat them with the respect of a family member even if that means serving the father first and having the option of them eating and sleeping on the floor if that is what they are more comfortable with. Besides, if you did that when they visited you, they, as well as your husband, may just have a newfound respect for you in that you treated them as family members and not as foreigners visiting a foreign country and house. That, I believe, would do wonders in cementing your relationship I would hope. But who knows? No two families are alike and what worked for me and the way my mother was treated, may be a whole different story for another. I just wanted to share my own experience from both sides.

...however, it doesn't mean i can't complain about it later does it?

Of couse you can complain. We all do it including myself. It's an outlet and there are many here who will understand where you are coming from including myself. Lord knows, I've done my fair share of complaining, then and now.

I love my husband and the reason i married him even when i knew what their culture was like was because i love him, not his race, not his culture, you can't choose someone's race when you choose the person you will fall in love with can you? His personality is the thing i was drawn to, and colour of skin, nationality etc has nothing to do with it.

Completely understand and agree, but one must know what they are getting into before one says "I do" I believe, or frustration will abound in the coming months and years.

At first that behaviour was unnerving for me, as it seemed like jekyl and hyde, but my husband reassured me that it was just as annoying for him. He loves australia and he loves the free life and the way of life and going back to japan is a nightmare for him because he has many obligations to fulfil while he is there. The only reason we go back is for his friends and family, if they didn't live there he would never go back as he's not exactly in love with japan.

Same here. My wife completely reverts to being Japanese when she is in Japan not that I really mind it! LOL! Also, since my wife is an only child I KNOW I will go back with her to fulfill the family obligation of taking care of one's parents. There is no choice. I, as well as my wife, resigned ourselves to that fact when we got married even though my wife is far more happier here in the US than in Japan. I even warned my own parents and family ahead of time that I will not be here in the US forever and will return to probably live out the remainder of my life there. Although Japan is not the paradise many foreigners make it out to be, I lived there long enough to understand the culture and language, and the discrimination and frustrations I will face because, like you, I married the person I fell in love with, but I knew what the future held in store for me and accepted it. Besides, I really do enjoy living in Japan even with all its frustrations. Heck, I could enjoy living anywhere as long as I could provide for myself.

When my husband is saying "bloody japanese" and he is one, that is the eye opener for me. We have alot of tourists coming to where i live, all nationalities and in fact because i spend alot of time in the city i see alot, and i don't really have a problem with any of them, they're all friendly and seem to be aware of our culture.

My wife says basically the same thing and she works for a Japanese company here in the US! And I did too when i used to work at the same company. Many a time she has come home cussing the Japanese and their inflexible ways and their failure to understand the culture they are living in and that she is not treated as an equal even though she holds an executive position. She often complains about their lack of the language ability and their unwillingness to adapt. Yes, they are nice and friendly and 'seem' to have an understanding of the culture, but it is their failure to adapt that really gets us.

Don't get me wrong, i have many many female japanese friends and a few male ones, and i love them to bits, i don't have anything against japanese, in fact there is alot i love about japan too, but since this is a forum, i just expected i could express my views/opinions/complaints to fellow experiencers here.

Please feel free to express your views/opinions/complaints here as there are many here who will sympathize with you and share like experiences and frustrations. Also, there are a few who will debate you and hold you to task if they disagree with you as there are many here who have been living in Japan for many years and have much to share and discuss. After all, if we all agreed it wouldn't be a forum now would it?

I hope you stick around and share your opinions.

[Azuma_Fujin]

Azuma_Fujin, there is a woman on JREF who has been a member for many years by the name of kirei_na_me who has been married to a Japanese man for about ten years now and has two children. Although she has never been to Japan she received a visit from her husbands parents about three years ago and explained her anxiousness at their visit and what the outcome was. She also has posted on the various frustrations she has felt in being married to a Japanese man. I think you should click on the link and explore some of her posts. It may offer insight and I believe you will have a lot in common with her. Maybe she will post a comment on this thread if she sees it.

There is also another person married to a Japanese man by the name of Goldiegirl who has also expressed her feelings in various threads. Athough she has not been on in a while, she will probably post if she sees this thread. We sure do need more threads/posts dealing with foreign womens' feelings, frustrations, happiness, etc, in being married to Japanese men as it would be educational for all I believe as we all know too well the foreign male perspective. I believe you will have alot in common with both women.

Hi, thanks for that i will seek out their threads.

I agree to an extent in that they should follow the custom of the country they are visiting, but can they? Are they flexible enough to comply and do they understand the phrase "When in Rome...." or is that just a western concept? And why shoud they be expected to when they are visiting a "family member"?

Okay, but my husband was the first person to tell me "when in rome", i had never heard of it before i met him. His family taught it to him, and they made me do the "when in rome" thing even though i'm a "family member" too.

Also, as my husband and myself are a family too, i believe that yes, they get certain breaks when they come here and of course i would not make them do anything too strenuous and i would accomodate them as much as i can, however i do still want them to see what our family lives like, and how the customs are different here. Also, my mum, brother and sisters family are less accomodating, and wouldn't like it if i brought over my husband's family who's father expects to eat first, they think it would be just plain rude to expect everyone to think he was bigger than any of them.

A great thing i've realised is, that when some of my husband's high school friends came to stay with us, they actually preferred to be treated in the aussie way because they learnt something new and had new experiences and memories to take back to japan with them. That being said, they are not family members, but certainly i am fond of them as if they are. I would like my in laws to have such an experience and be able to tell their friends back home "well this is how they do it in australia, weird hey?" or something like that.

I slept on a futon in Japan when i lived with my in laws, i was told what to do and what not to do indirectly (through my husband) from my father in law, i wasn't even allowed to go out by myself even when i was a 26 year old world travelling adult. I bared it. I stayed with it because of my husband, he was between a rock and a hard place, he knew he didn't want to tell his headstrong aussie wife what to do, but how could he disobey his dad? So yeah i went along with it for him, and i might do it again. However, i think there is a limit to how much you can bend before you break, some of it is unhealthy. And that is the same expectations i have for my in laws, there is only one thing i won't bend on, the rest is whatever they would like, i'm going to make it cosy for them.

My mother in law always asks me things she would like me to make and i comply because i think it's going to be cool to show them all the wonderful foods we have here and because she cooked for me when i lived with her time and time again.

Please feel free to express your views/opinions/complaints here as there are many here who will sympathize with you and share like experiences and frustrations. Also, there are a few who will debate you and hold you to task if they disagree with you as there are many here who have been living in Japan for many years and have much to share and discuss. After all, if we all agreed it wouldn't be a forum now would it?

I hope you stick around and share your opinions.

Thankyou, will do. I've noticed there are a few people on here who hate the thought of someone saying something negative about japan, but i take the good with the bad, and i'm glad to have someone to share with

[ASHIKAGA]

Mrs. Azuma,

I do not see anything wrong in having negative opinions about Japan and voicing them. I am known to do my share of it. What I think what Chidoriashi and some others are trying to point out is the danger of taking one's experiences with a single family and expressing one's opinions/impressions about that particular family as one's opinions about Japanese family/people in general.

While I agree that the issue of some Japanese people not adressing a foreign born people directly seems to be an experience shared by many, saying things like "Japanese people are so backwards" based on the fact one's mother in law does not have a bath/shower/oven in her house makes me go huh? I have visited many homes (of my friends, relatives, colleagues, etc.) and I have not seen a house without a bathtub unless it is a tiny apartment in a big city for a single person that is only equipped with a shower.

Voicing your frustration about unpleasant treatments you receive from your spouse's family is one thing. Thinking that by being married to a Japanese person and having dealt with his/her parents/family, you think you can start your sentences with "Japanese people are...." without people questioning the level of understanding of Japan on your part, is quite another.

As long as your reason for living in Japan is only because you are married to someone who happens to be Japanese, I think it would be rather difficult for you to experience Japan enough to convince the doubters with "I KNOW Japan.". I suppose you just have to learn to "live with" your annoying family in laws. Figuratively and literally.

Sorry for the long post.

[Azuma_Fujin]

Azuma> It's comments like these that are leading people to believe you are ignorant to Japanese culture. Anybody who has spent some time here would know that Japanese typically don't have ovens like in the west. Why? because it is not something that typically plays a big role in Japanese cooking. I would think you would know that. Anyway, this shows that you are judging them from your own cultural context. They don't do things like I do so that makes them backwards... You cannot possibly hope to get along well in Japan with that attitude.
And saying that Japan is so technologically advanced sounds like a fairly ignorant foreigners stereotypical image of Japan.
Well it is fine to rant about your problems, all foreigners have them here, but like I said before, a little patience and trying to see things from a Japanese point of view would help you a lot I think.

Hi chidoriashi,

the reason i said they are so behind is that my mother in law thinks so too, and i agree with her. She wants to be able to make a big roast pork with all the trimmings like i do here, and she laments the fact that she can't have a big oven like we do in her tiny tiny kitchen. It's not an ignorant comment i don't believe, as i've lived in her house that has all the bells and whistles of a modern japanese home, so much more technologically advanced cars, etc, yet stepping into her kitchen is like stepping backward in time and she agrees. She only recently got a bathtub (albeit a blue square plastic one) in her home but you have to stand up in it because it's so small. Instead my father in law prefers to drive 30 mins to the nearest onsen so he can spread out.

I see things from a japanese point of view, i totally agree with everything my mother in law thinks about it, so if you think that is not a japanese point of view, you are wrong. different people have different views.

My mother in law judges her own culture and i was simply agreeing with her. I don't see a problem with that.