Have you encountered discrimination or prejudices in Japan ?

[Glenski]

You're exactly right, many foreigners here in Japan justify most of this sometimes racist and bizarre Japanese behavior. It is sucking up to the nth degree. They always try to give excuses as to why Japanese act a certain way. ...Oh, mabye they didn't hear you, Oh, maybe they don't speak English, Oh, maybe they were just being polite, Oh, maybe it's how you said it, Oh, maybe they don't understand 'gaijin', Oh, maybe they are shy or embarrassed or...whatever.

Since we are talking in generalities here, I'd like to point out that the above "examples" are not excuses unless they are intentionally given. Call me a defender if you will (and you will be wrong), but the above can all be legitimate reasons, not excuses.

I read the first few pages of this thread (realizing it is 2 years old), then skipped a couple before Sept. 2007 discussions became posted. I, too, would like to know if in those unread pages were there really examples of people justifying the racism in Japan?

(And, in case you need to know, I agree that there is racism here. Sometimes I can explain it, but I certainly don't defend it.)

jmwintenn wrote:

I cannot think of any country that would not ask to check your visa or passport. Not one. Nine times out of ten, foreigners stick out by some characteristic. If it's not your ethnicity, it's more than likely your apparel or speaking skills. My point being it's easy, generally speaking, for them to identify the outsider. Checking to see if they are there legally should not offend the person, the officer is doing his job(not saying they won't harass you though).

Police have no right to ask a person to identify themselves without just cause. Since you have never been to Japan, I thought I should explain that. I was stopped once in 9 years. The guy was in plainclothes, too, and didn't even identify himself properly until I forced the issue. He mumbled his pathetic reason for asking to see my passport, and did a poor job of examining my alien card (didn't even look for my current information on the back).

But, there is more to discrimination and racism here than being checked for bike registration or not being allowed in bars/bathhouses. A lot of it is hidden, and unless one knows what to look for (in work contracts, for example), one might not even know they were discriminated.

Bike registration card, don't know of many countries that have them, but to me it's the same as driving a car, they want to make sure you are in possession of it legally.

Then why stop only the foreigners on bikes and not all people?

Housing. Agencies, banks, and people have the right to turn you away for any reason they want to.

Not legally they don't.

I don't understand why it's important or a matter of interest if people treat you this way. Until they hurt or threaten you, get over it.

Since you admit you have absolutely no experience in this matter related to Japan, you are not going to understand. "Get over it" is an expression to use only if you have a justifiable experienced reason. I prefer to say "Learn to adapt", but people should also know what to expect before they come here (or learn as much as possible).

Those "funny looks" you pooh-pooh can make some people pretty uncomfortable. Try sitting on a bus or train and have nearly every set of eyes on you simply because you look different. Do this day in and day out. It's not just being fat. Most Japanese have never seen a non-Asian foreigner in person, and they feel the need to look them over. (And, with little kids, it becomes vocalized to the parents' embarrassment, but they realize that there may be a language barrier, so they can only hold the child back and not attempt to apologize.) I met a woman who had been here a year and was fed up with the stares. She was a fair-skinned, freckled, strawberry blond with deep blue eyes. Quite the contrast to the brown-eyed, black or brown-haired Japanese! When we rode on the train once, she stopped in mid-sentence to glare daggers at someone over my shoulder. I knew instantly what was happening and whispered, "Is someone looking at you?" She cursed under her breath and continued to stare for at least a minute. Gimme a break! Live here a year with that type of appearance in a semi-rural suburb, and you just have to realize that people will stare. She went home a week later.

[GodEmperorLeto]

Police have no right to ask a person to identify themselves without just cause.

In the States, I have learned that what the police are allowed to do, what they say they can do, and what they do do are three very different things. Considering what I've heard about Japan, I'd be surprised that the cops there are all that different.

Most Japanese have never seen a non-Asian foreigner in person, and they feel the need to look them over. (And, with little kids, it becomes vocalized to the parents' embarrassment, but they realize that there may be a language barrier, so they can only hold the child back and not attempt to apologize.)

I had a Korean student that told me that it is because they stare at the unusual and different. Therefore, they stare at foreigners, and she explained it as curiosity. She even got into trouble staring at people on buses and trains in the United States, and wasn't sure why. I told her that it is considered rude here and to stop doing it, period. I explained how it makes people uncomfortable and sends the clear message of, "You are different, you don't belong" to people. I think she was being pretty honest about not meaning anything by staring, especially because she told me that she thinks Americans are the most misunderstood people in the world (but that's a different conversation). But it was a bit of a shock to her to realize what she was doing in our mindset.

Then again, she was Korean, so maybe Korean motivation for staring is different.

Besides, I hear that people stare on the train at each other in Europe all the time.

When we rode on the train once, she stopped in mid-sentence to glare daggers at someone over my shoulder. I knew instantly what was happening and whispered, "Is someone looking at you?" She cursed under her breath and continued to stare for at least a minute.

I've had friends who say the best thing to do is make a show of staring back, wave, or somehow call the person out, "Excuse me, you are staring at me", or "Yes, I'm a foreigner, get over it." They usually get embarassed and look away. Even if it is not necessarily a good way to assimilate, and it is unlikely that any Japanese person would be so overt.

I find it ironic that these people alo come to the United States, and the first moment they hear some frat punk yell out of their car window, or get poor service at a store, they want to cry the blues to me about how they are being discriminated against. I usually follow it up with a description of how I've had friends refused cab rides or restaraunt service in their countries because they were foreign, with an explanation of what real racism and discrimination is (firehoses, lynchings, Jim Crow, etc).

I am not justifying the behavior of the Japanese. I do feel it is wrong. I have no intention of changing their country. But I also have no compunction against telling them just how rude they can be to foreigners, and that it is hypocritical to complain about poor service or dumb jocks and play the "race card" when what they are really dealing with is jerks and a--holes, not discrimination.

[Glenski]

In the States, I have learned that what the police are allowed to do, what they say they can do, and what they do do are three very different things. Considering what I've heard about Japan, I'd be surprised that the cops there are all that different.

That doesn't make it right in any country that recognizes the rights of human beings. But we're getting slightly off the track here.

I had a Korean student that told me that it is because they stare at the unusual and different. Therefore, they stare at foreigners, and she explained it as curiosity. She even got into trouble staring at people on buses and trains in the United States, and wasn't sure why. I told her that it is considered rude here and to stop doing it, period. I explained how it makes people uncomfortable and sends the clear message of, "You are different, you don't belong" to people. I think she was being pretty honest about not meaning anything by staring, especially because she told me that she thinks Americans are the most misunderstood people in the world (but that's a different conversation). But it was a bit of a shock to her to realize what she was doing in our mindset.
Then again, she was Korean, so maybe Korean motivation for staring is different.

Actually, I don't think the motivation is any different for the Japanese.

Besides, I hear that people stare on the train at each other in Europe all the time.

Hmm, interesting. Been there twice now (England, Scotland, Belgium) and never saw that happen. But what you are describing here in general terms can be explained by the fact that European countries are used to people traveling within their borders from other countries, and people don't look all that differently because of proximity or intermingling of races. It's different with the "homogeneous" Asian cultures. We non-Asians stick out.

it is unlikely that any Japanese person would be so overt [as to stare].

I totally disagree!

I usually follow it up with a description of how I've had friends refused cab rides or restaraunt service in their countries because they were foreign, with an explanation of what real racism and discrimination is (firehoses, lynchings, Jim Crow, etc).

Those are just more overt (to use your word) and more violent manifestations of racism and discrimination. One can be discriminated against without violence, don't you think?

[jmwintenn]

Police have no right to ask a person to identify themselves without just cause. Since you have never been to Japan, I thought I should explain that.

well,the "just cause" of it would to make sure you're there legally,which is what I was trying to imply. I honestly see no harm in that. I agree police can abuse their powers, and often do.

Then why stop only the foreigners on bikes and not all people?

I'm sure they have stopped Japanese citizens before, and I hope you don't argue against that.

Not legally they don't.

Really? A privately owned business doesn't have the right to turn anyone they think won't/can't make the payments away? That's the arguement I'm sure they use, or something similar, and it'll probably hold.

Since you admit you have absolutely no experience in this matter related to Japan, you are not going to understand. "Get over it" is an expression to use only if you have a justifiable experienced reason. I prefer to say "Learn to adapt", but people should also know what to expect before they come here (or learn as much as possible).

Those "funny looks" you pooh-pooh can make some people pretty uncomfortable. Try sitting on a bus or train and have nearly every set of eyes on you simply because you look different. Do this day in and day out.

I'll admit I won't understand it since it's related to Japan, but I can empathize. I moved to MS the last semester of my senior year this past January. It was a town with a population of 1,300. The principal of the school had me running in circles for 21 days before he finally caved(because I had notarized papers from the state) and let me enroll. He wouldn't put me in honors classes like I had before, even though there was room. He pretty much made the last 5 months of high school as crappy as he could for me. I didn't do anything to him, at my father's urging, he didn't like me because I wasn't "from 'round there." Also everyone in the town(and kids in class) would stare at me when I went somewhere. The first month I was there no one would say anything to me, just stared at me.

Personally, I like quiet, so I didn't mind(about the staring). I will yeild that some people can't handle it, but I'll also say that they shouldn't put themselves in a position they cannot handle.

The funny part, my Tennessee homie, is that the ones who complain the loudest and hardest about Japanese noticing they are foreigners (and treating them as foreigners) very often owe their ability to make a living in Japan to using their foreignness as a commodity.

English teachers getting pissed off because Japanese assume they speak English and therefore belong in a Monty Python sketch.

Honestly, it doesn't surprise me. When I heard someone say "they'd rather be a popular idiot than a lonely genius" , I knew things had hit the ceiling.