Presumption of 'innocence' vs 'guilt' & the Japanese police

[GodEmperorLeto]

You hear a person complain that the judicial system is unfair, then cite racism against hispanics as a reason, and assume I am uneducated?
At the risk of fitting into your stereotype, there's a hint of racism in your reaction as well, Leto.

I was responding to the fact that you opened the door to race being a factor in how you were being treated. To quote you:

...and if you're poor, half-mexican, and scary-looking like I am, they usually think you're guilty.

I didn't cite racism, you did right there. Whether you intended to or not, you made it a racial issue. I cited the incident of my friend being a WASP to counter any attempt at establishing racism as a motivating factor in bad bureaucracy, as well as to point out that your experience was neither unique, nor due to "innocence vs. guilt" assumptions. Any racism you percieved there, you inserted yourself. In addition, any connection you percieve between your incident and "innocence vs. guilt" presumptions in the judicial system are red herrings.

Perhaps you confused me with the "poor dumb minority bitching about his rights"?

Absolutely not. But I know plenty of college-educated people who don't know a damn about the law and get taken for a ride, then sit around and complain about it rather than doing something constructive.
By the way, lay off the ad hominem attacks. They don't support your argument.

Deny it all you like, you response shows your presumptions about me clearly. Although I'm willing to bet you weren't aware of the prejudice coloring your opinion

Yet another ad hominem attack. And not a single quote to back your own presumptions up.

Despite the written law, people in the US are not always presumed inocent--most of the time they are presumed guilty.

You fail to illustrate actual facts supporting your conclusion, but instead supply anecdotal fallacies. You have decided that since the police and prosecutors assume your guilt, as well as your languishing in juvi due to rampant clerical error and widespread bureaurcatic idiocy, means that you are automatically guilty in the eyes of the court as well as the entire judiciary system.

I already stated that is not true. I'm not denying it, it is a simple fact. The jury is to assume your innocence unless guilt is proved beyond any reasonable doubt. Not the police or prosecutors. You completely avoided that fact.

You instead chose to attempt to discredit me with accusations of racism and bias, when you 1) do not know me or anything about me, and 2) made an assumption based on the fact that I knew your racial status, which you provided. This also begs the question as to whether you assume I'm white, and are thereby unwarrantedly assigning "racist" attributes to me.
In short, you, sir, have made assumptions about me being racist and pompous, and then fallaciously accused me of making assumptions about you. In addition, you failed to attack my argument. I never attacked you personally, I only admonished you to stop playing the victim card like so many people do. Indeed, your reliance upon "racist" accusations hints of "card playing" well beyond the "victim" game, again, information you yourself have provided, and in abundance supply.

Besides, this has honestly degenerated from the topic of Japanese police behavior.


BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC OF THIS THREAD:

Repetition, brow beating, intimidation, insinuations of guilt, and outright manipulation are stock in trade when being questioned by the police. Fatigue is the most devastating weapon of the interrogator and the key to obtaining confessions--90 percent of cases that go to trial involve confessions, and they are almost never overturned.

This is the same thing as in the United States. Although they can only hold you for a certain amount of time, unless you are placed under arrest, U.S. cops will try anything they possibly can to get a confession. Despite enormous errors, the TV show, Law & Order shows how the police will do whatevery they can get away with as often as possible.

Cops are the same in Japan, England, the United States, anywhere. They aren't often the brightest or most honest members of society. Often they are kids you grew up with who were trouble makers and thought a badge would give them enough authority to bully people. They'll get away with what they can. That doesn't mean you are presumed guilty by the entire legal system. Guilt or innocence in Western/English style courtrooms are usually determined by the jury. It all depends on what the jury is to presume from the beginning of a trial.

[mad pierrot]

Japan is finally set to get one in 2008. Up until now, they've never had one.


Too bad, the jury system has gotta be one of the "worst best ideas" ever....