Frankly,Coreans' deep-seated inferiority complexes are getting tiresome and embarrassing.
It's like " we Coreans don't have blah blah blah of our own,so let's hijack one "
Frankly,Coreans' deep-seated inferiority complexes are getting tiresome and embarrassing
It's like " we Coreans don't have blah blah blah of our own,so let's hijack one "
Thats it? After everything ive said, this is the best you could do?Originally Posted by Trollhattan
Very very sad Japanese troll
The Chinese document(book of Sui) you are referring to is very well known. Unfortunately you mistranslated the passage intentionally. You took your own biased and ridiculous translation and twisted it into another one of your lies.
The correct translation for the passage is-
""Silla and Baekje both take Wa to be a big country of treasure source, with many rare and precious things in Japan; also [Silla and Baekje] highly esteemed it [many rare and precious things], and regularly send their person there"".
This is the correct translation. The book of sui mentions that Shilla and Baekje considered Wa to be a treasure source of material wealth and regularly sent colonists to take those resources. Not some ridiculous translation about how Shilla and Baekje viewed Japan as a great country and sent envoys to Japan in submission.
Remember, Japan at the time period had
1. No iron weapons.
2. No sophisticated armor.
3. No horses
4. No cavalry
5. No chariots
6. Smaller population
7. No organized government structure
8. primitive tech level
Your translation is ridiculous because not only is it mistranslated in your favor, but it does not fit the historical time period we are talking about. I cant believe you still think Japan conquered Korea. Wheres the evidence?
Typical Japanese historical fabrication
Kaya was never a part of Japan. It was a Korean kingdom and most Japanese historians agree it was never Japanese. Not only is there no historical source or text that mentions Kaya being Japanese, but there is also no circumstantial or archaelogical evidence to prove Japan conquering Kaya or any Korean kingdom. Kaya had iron weapons, organized government, horses, cavalry etc. Stuff Wa Japan did not have. You live in a fantasy world if you believe primitive Japanese people in tiny rift raft boats could cross the sea and defeat Kaya's well equipped and armored cavalry army with wooden sticks, stones and low quality farming implements. Especially when Japan had no organized government and very little in organized military. If you believe otherwise, then show me a record that proves Kaya was Japanese. Also name the battle in which Japan supposedly beat Kaya. Otherwise, shut up with your lies.脱解本多婆那國所生也 其國在倭國東北一千里
1000li to north east from wa was 多婆那國
if there was wa in kyusyu, there is 多婆那國 around Tottori or kansai
Kaya was also a part of WA
Typical Japanese historical fabrication
1000 Li does not equal 75-80 km. 1 Li during the time when the Samguk Sagi was written was about 500 m or .5 km. 1000 Li= 500 km. Not 75-80km. Not even close.anyway ,1000li in book of sill at that time was around 75~80km
there are some discriptions about distance
for example, from tushima and iki island was 1000li
Daifang Commandery to Yamatai(japan) 12,000li
wikipedia.org/wiki/Daifang_Commandery
二年春正月(AD58?)、拜瓠公為大輔。二月、親祀始祖廟。
then
in 59, 三年春三月、王登吐含山、有玄雲如蓋、浮王頭上、良久而散。夏五月、與倭國結好交聘
500 km is a long distance away from Wa Japan. That means Talhae wasnt Japanese. You claim that he was Japanese even though the book states he wasnt and that he was born far away from Wa. In fact, the Samguk sagi mentions that Talhae was born on Tapana, not Wa Japan. Again and again, you get historical facts wrong. Do you ever give up?
But thats besides the point. Do you even know how Talhae was born? Talhae wasn't a real person. Who cares if he lived 1 Li from wa or 500,000 Li from wa. He was a mythological character. Talhae was born as an egg. His father considered this bad luck so he threw the egg into the ocean. The egg drifted into the ocean for quite some time before being discovered by fishermen. The fishermen raised him as a human being.
Sounds realistic huh(sarcasm)? Not surprising since you believe everything written in the Nihonshoki to be real. Please say hi to any magical flying time travelling supermen if you see one.
Typical Japanese historical fabrication
[quote]Jealous of what? What is there to be jealous of? Sorry but nobody in the world is envious of Japan. Japan is a dying nation. There is nothing to be jealous of. Koreans are not jealous of Japan being the only country to get nuked ok?
If you have nothing intelligent left to say, then I suggest you shut up and leave. You're only making the Japanese side look childish and unable to debate properly.
got to love this video ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWipI...eature=related
Typical Japanese inferiority complex.got to love this video ...
Typical Japanese immaturity.
Japan can not beat Korea at anything so they make videos like this.
Korea doesnt even have to try hard to find videos negative about Japan. None of the links I post are even made by Koreans lol.
youtube.com/watch?v=JdRlhMd9Vbs
nytimes.com/2009/07/26/magazine/26FOB-2DLove-t.html?_r=4&pagewanted=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
youtube.com/watch?v=BTxZXKsJdGU
youtube.com/verify_age?&next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DUx74kJLv7KY
youtube.com/watch?v=6iZlVN3gEso
rjkoehler.com/2009/11/05/samsung-now-bigger-than-nine-of-japans-major-electronics-companies/
nationmaster.com/graph/hea_pla_sur_pro_percap-plastic-surgery-procedures-per-capita
bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=acYH_ZqAefdw
snopes.com/risque/kinky/panties.asp
news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-technology/japan-tech-giants-slump-as-skorean-rivals-rebound-20091031-hq1l.html
as-link.com/en/news_list.asp?newsid=25
youtube.com/watch?v=qc_5CKARbZg
Typical Japanese abnormality.
I am not as well educated in Asian history as you seem to be Jichael Morden and don't claim to be. But, whether you agree with caster51 or not, it would be nice if you could have a humane, civil debate without the blasting of someone for their viewpoints. This is not a forum for flaming someone for their viewpoints, but rather to understand where they are coming from and to have an intelligent debate. There are many other forums where you would be most welcome with your flaming.
Also, it would be wise to understand where the person you are flaming is from. caster51 is Japanese and may not be able to answer in fluent English as fast or as clearly as you would like. It would behoove you to take that into consideration before slamming him.
Besides, he has been here much longer than you and, whether right or wrong, adds much to this forum and gives an insightful Japanese viewpoint and he slams no one.
Also, you seem to lack an understanding of the Japanese people and their educational system. Whether you agree with it or not, it would still help if you had an understanding of it which you seem to severely lack for, if you were so educated, you wouldn't be as flameheaded as you are just to prove you know more than he does just because you read it in a book or were taught it at university far removed from the actual place where it occurred.
Your profile states that you have never been to Japan so, without a clear understanding of Japanese culture, history, and thinking, how can you justify your viewpoints and severe lambasting of caster51 as you fail to provide links for your justifications so that others may read and debate.
You seem to be great at referring to Chinese history and translations and who is to say they are correct in their history and teachings?
Every country has their own view on history and teach it to their children in the best way they deem fit when actual fact usually shows that it is usually not the case. America is a typical example in their conquering of west and the native Americans. The truth is, history, any country's history, is far from what we or they are taught. It is all propaganda in one way or another.
Also, have you read this entire thread? Since you seem to be so educated in this subject I would be interested in reading your views/debate concerning the other viewpoints posted which you seem to ignore but enjoy honing in on caster51 and slamming him.
How about commenting on the other posts with your vast knowledge especially from grimmo, Maciamo, and bossel among others as this thread goes back more than 7 years with much, much more information than you have posted. I would be interested in reading your comments referring to their information also.
In the end, read the entire thread, understand where the other person is coming from, and be civil, please, in your replies. Also, links would be very much appreciated as most of us here are here to learn something. Thanks.
Do What You Love And You'll Never Work Another Day In Your Life!
I initially tried to be civil and still am to some degree. But then he went insane. He began parroting the material on radical right-wing sites and posting racist youtube videos to discredit me. He was creating one lie to back up another lie. It all eventually came crashing down on him.
To make matters worse, caster seems to have a habit of intentionally mis-translating Chinese historical texts to suit his own agenda. He does this in order to trick anyone who cannot read Chinese characters. Which is vile and unacceptable in my opinion.
If he wants a proper debate, then tell him to behave as well.
I've been to Japan. Its just that when I registered my account, I didn't bother to fill in any of the optional content(hobbies, interest and what not).Your profile states that you have never been to Japan so, without a clear understanding of Japanese culture, history, and thinking, how can you justify your viewpoints and severe lambasting of caster51 as you fail to provide links for your justifications so that others may read and debate.
Thats not being fair to history. Its true that records can be tainted and meaning lost over the centuries. However if we were to assume all historical texts as mere propaganda then the human race would have no history. And that is a tragedy.You seem to be great at referring to Chinese history and translations and who is to say they are correct in their history and teachings?
Every country has their own view on history and teach it to their children in the best way they deem fit when actual fact usually shows that it is usually not the case. America is a typical example in their conquering of west and the native Americans. The truth is, history, any country's history, is far from what we or they are taught. It is all propaganda in one way or another.
Historians use Chinese records because they were the most accurate and well written for the time. Chinese records were also supported by the records of other Chinese kingdoms during that time period as well as second hand evidence and archaeological finds.
I am not "educated" within the field of genetics. I do not know where the Japanese people came from or really care(other than a slight curiosity). I only began commenting when Caster51 claimed that Japan somehow conquered the Korean kingdoms of Shilla, Baekje and claimed that Kaya was a Japanese kingdom.Also, have you read this entire thread? Since you seem to be so educated in this subject I would be interested in reading your views/debate concerning the other viewpoints posted which you seem to ignore but enjoy honing in on caster51 and slamming him.
S Koreans take the " crown " for history fabrication ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIhoBy6a0BY
You see what I mean? This is why I cant take the Japanese side seriously. They do not even bother debating properly. Whenever they lose, they throw a fit. Its so typical of them. What is the point of bringing up doctored youtube videos that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand?S Koreans take the " crown " for history fabrication ...
youtube.com/watch?v=dIhoBy6a0BY
PS Trollhattan, that video was taken way way out of context. The show did not support any of the claims mentioned within that video. The entire premise of that show was to summarize a whacky book/theory and then to discredit the theory.
The guy who uploaded that video intentionally deleted the portion of the video that discredits the theory. Let me repeat again. The show did not support the ideas claimed in that video. The Japanese guy who uploaded that video intentionally deleted the portion of the show that discredits the entire theory.
None of this is taught in Korean schools, are in Korean textbooks or taken seriously by the vast majority of Korean historians. You want to talk about historical fraud? Why dont we look to Japan then.
Japan- largest historical and archaeological fraud in recent memory.
================
wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinichi_Fujimura
t-net.ne.jp/~keally/Hoax/how.html
archaeology.org/0101/newsbriefs/godshands.html
museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/archive/permalink/the_stone_age_discoveries_of_shinichi_fujimura/
================
This fraud was going on for years and was taught in Japanese schools. Published within Japanese textbooks. Children graduated from school after being taught, tested and believing this lie.
Ultimately it was discovered for the fraud that it was. A huge embarrassment for Japanese archaeology and history. They had to overhaul Japanese textbooks and change the curriculum. Someone committed suicide because of it and the rest of the world stood and watch in amazement.
It was THAT bad.
ask the chinese who can read chinese charactersYou see what I mean? This is why I cant take the Japanese side seriously. They do not even bother debating properly. Whenever they lose, they throw a fit. Its so typical of them. What is the point of bringing up doctored youtube videos that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand?
If thats all you have left to say in support of your right wing supremacist argument, then I guess this debate is pretty much over. You've lost.ask the chinese who can read chinese characters
大= large or big. Read my last comment on the subject(which you've either ignored or could not refute).
(add www and . at the beginning)
wa-pedia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=651652&postcount=296
Give it up. Your wasting your own time if you still believe your magical view of history is taken seriously by anyone other than radical fringe groups. No historian, not even Japanese historians believe in or support what you are proposing.
"漢委奴国王印"
Why are you showing me this? Its an imperial seal of China that was used by a Japanese king who submitted to the Chinese emperor.
I dont know how to read the hiragana/katakana that is on the right.
I don't now if this idiot above is Korean or not. I wish mod gave him a warning, he shows trollish signs no different than that of a qinese who claims Koreans and Japanese came from qina. How would you feel if a qinese called you a qinese?
If anyone deserves a warning, it would be you. Hypocrite.
Not once have I claimed Japan or Japanese people were Korean. I could care less about the origins of Japanese people. In fact I have yet to even comment on that subject.he shows trollish signs no different than that of a qinese who claims Koreans and Japanese came from qina. How would you feel if a qinese called you a qinese?
If you actually bothered to read what ive written, you would realize how off base your comments are. As I said earlier, I have yet to even comment on the origins of Japanese people or make even the slightest claim that Japan originated from Korea, France or the planet Uranus. I simply dont care. My argument with caster and that troll was over an entirely different matter that had nothing to do with Japan's origins and genepool.
If you have no idea what is going on, then dont bother commenting at all. It only makes you look foolish.
Your obsession talks 1000 words already. If you don't want insist you're an idiot shut up already, don't make Koreans look bad.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Remains prove the history.
The gold seal was given the Japanese king in 57 in the Christian era by the Chinese emperor.
This proves that a Japanese traded with China in those days, and it proves the existence of the country.
1. Inariyama Sword : It was discovered from an old burial mound of Saitama.1. No iron weapons.
2. No sophisticated armor.
3. No horses
4. No cavalry
5. No chariots
6. Smaller population
7. No organized government structure
8. primitive tech level
It was written as dedication for 471 years.
2. The armor was excavated from the old burial mound, too.
We can watch them at the Tokyo National Museum and other many local museums.
3.4. A horse was imported into Japan in Burial Mound age.
The model of harness and the horse is excavated from the old burial mound
5. chariots does not seem to have been suitable for the Japanese topography.
6.From a number and the size of the old burial mound, I can suppose that Japan had more population than Korea.
Japan has more population now than Korea.
7.The group of the scale to receive the recognition as the country from a foreign country existed.
The gold seal proves it.
8. I was not inferior in all fields.
There was it in a basal level.
Existing Japanese cultural heritage proves it.
Japan wasn't a unified country. There was no "Japanese" country during that time period. Japan was a landmass inhabited by the people of Wa who were split into dozens of communities each with different kings/tribal leaders. No different from America before the arrival of Columbus.
These communities would wage war against each other for centuries and would not unite into a true singular country(Japan) as we know it until 1500 years later. During Hideyoshis time. Here are some Chinese records of the time period as evidence
====Chinese records on Japan's status during that time period==========
Book of Han(Chinese historical text)
Beyond Lo-lang in the sea, there are the people of Wo. They comprise more than one hundred communities.
Book of Wei(Chinese historical text)
The people of Wa dwell in the middle of the ocean on the mountainous islands southeast of [the prefecture] of Tai-fang. They formerly comprised more than one hundred communities.
Book of Wei(again)
Over one thousand li to the east of the Queen's land, there are more countries of the same race as the people of Wa.
Book of Later Eastern Han
The Wa dwell on mountainous islands southeast of Han [Korea] in the middle of the ocean, forming more than one hundred communities
Book of Sui
During the Wei dynasty, over thirty countries [of Wa-kuo], each of which boasted a king, held intercourse with China.
Hou Han Shu
Each community has its king, whose office is hereditary.
=======
Its true that Japanese communities of the past maintained relationships with the Han dynasty of China. And this is actually well known. I even mentioned it 2 pages ago. However, it still favors my argument either way. This does not signify Japan the country as trading with China or Korea. It signifies one of the more than 100 communities trading with mainlanders.
Chinese record(history of Wei)
The people of Wa dwell in the middle of the ocean on the mountainous islands southeast of [the prefecture] of Tai-fang. They formerly comprised more than one hundred communities. During the Han dynasty, [Wa envoys] appeared at the Court; today, thirty of their communities maintain intercourse [with us] through envoys and scribes.
As you can see, it wasn't Japan that maintained relations with China. It was the tiny fractured communities of Wa people.
Only one problem though, Gwangetto ruled during 374-413 AD. Over a century before Japan's earliest sword. By that time period, all three Korean kingdoms had complicated iron weaponry, cavalry and armor. Japan didnt. You can see why its very unlikely that Japan- a fractured country of over 100 warring tribes without organized government, iron weapons and armor was somehow able to cross the sea in large numbers and defeat the technologically and numerically superior Korean kingdoms of Shilla and Paekche.1. Inariyama Sword : It was discovered from an old burial mound of Saitama.
It was written as dedication for 471 years.
The Inariyama Sword was a special made gift for one of the Wa kings of the island. It was tailored made for him. This in no way signifies that the vast majority of Japanese people during that time period used iron weapons as was the case on the mainland. Japan would not truly reach the iron age until much later. And they would only use iron weapons in combat much later as well.
One more thing, the sword is in such poor condition that its date is difficult to establish. The swords age ranges from 471 AD to 521.
Whats your definition of sophisticated armor?2. The armor was excavated from the old burial mound, too.
We can watch them at the Tokyo National Museum and other many local museums.
Because all complicated plate and metal armor during that time period were of Korean design(Kaya, Baekje etc).
The Kofun era ended in 538 AD which was still centuries after Gwangettos time. Horses were not native to Japan and had to be brought over from the mainland and bred over the centuries.3.4. A horse was imported into Japan in Burial Mound age.
The model of harness and the horse is excavated from the old burial mound
5. chariots does not seem to have been suitable for the Japanese topography.
Of course Japan has a larger than population than Korea right now. The northern half of it is starving. And how exactly can you measure population size using size and number of burial mounds?6.From a number and the size of the old burial mound, I can suppose that Japan had more population than Korea.
Japan has more population now than Korea.
Type in "Korea three kingdoms" into google or any other search engine and you'll see that Korea was much larger back then. The Korean kingdoms during that time period were already established and possessed stable government structure and modern farming technology of the time. Population growth was stable within the peninsula.
Hokkaido, Okinawa and the northern half of Honshu was not a part of the Wa people during that time period. What constituted Wa Japan during that time period was small. Most of it being the southern half of Honshu. Japan during that time period did not possess a stable government. Communities relied on less efficent methods of farming or hunting and gathering.
Korea had a far far larger population then Japan back then.
Primitive African and Native American tribes of the past also traded and established relations with powerful western nations during the time of colonization. It doesnt really mean those tribes were "Advanced".7.The group of the scale to receive the recognition as the country from a foreign country existed.
Japan as a single functioning country would not come into existence until 1500 years after than Han dynasty period or 1300 years after Gwangettos time. The gold seal only proves that a few Japanese communities out over of 100 traded and maintained relations with the Han dynasty. Japan was still a chaotic island of 100 or more warring communities with different leaders and views.The gold seal proves it.
8. I was not inferior in all fields.
There was it in a basal level.
Existing Japanese cultural heritage proves it.
I think you are all over the show..you quote chinese literature, but do you know what they are saying? I think the more you go on,
the more of a fool you will show of yourself..your information is only half-value... re the sword that japan didnt have that you claim,
which or rather what sword you talking about? can you clarify? as starters?
I think we're getting way of point here. We can all agree that Korean Kingdoms largely influenced, and populated Yamato during the Kofun (Yamato) Period. But I think it would be better to continue discussing who was present during the time of Yamatai confederacy, and who were the original Yayoi. Note: There is a difference between the three.
Here's the point I was trying to get to: Say, for now, that the Yayoi were all proto-Korean migrants (which looking at mtDNA makes seem like undeniable fact).
Where, then, did they get the custom of tatooing themselves to ward off spirits? Tattooing was not practiced in the Korean Peninsula, though it was a tradition among the Jomon.
Why did they pull out people's front teeth to differentiate kin from outsiders (a tribal ritual in neolithic Chinese Hemudu culture)?
Why was their clothing- the yokohau, a wrap-around skirt, for men, and the kantoui, a tunic, for women - so different from Korean dress? Although the "hanbok" had not been invented yet, the basic central-Asian design that it originates from had followed migrants all the way through Korea, and one would expect it to have continued to the Japanese Islands. Wa-jin did not start wearing anything resembling the Korea jeogori and baji until later.
Just food for thought.
Amzing this thread is still going-almost teny years old. And Maciamo is back too
And after centuries of animosity, Koreans and Japanese emigrants who toiled to relocate around the world in countries spread over 4 million sq miles each, decide to set up shop no more than 5 miles of each other. As shown by Japantowns and Koreatowns in San Francisco, Sydney, Brazil and many other cities, it's clear that we can't live without each other. Biggie And Tupac, the Workers Party Sinn Fein vs the Provisional Sin Fein, the Yanks vs Sox: Just another feud in the bucket of Freud's "Narcissism of the minute" (der Narziﾟmus der kleinen Differenzen) "the phenomenon where adjacent territories, with more in common than not, engage in constant feuds, i.e. in the minute differences of details). Most likely however, whether Korean or Japanese, one of their ancestors bred with the enemy.
Koreans residing on one of hundreds of micro islands around the peninsula, speak a dialect almost indistinguishable from Japanese called Zainichi.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2615218/
Now I can't remember who was it, maybe there were more because this has been years ago some people in here try to say that Japanese were Koreans. And they are North East Asian stock, where as Chinese are related to Vietnamese ( well, ancient Vietnam was under Chinese control) I won't be too surprised if there are links in blood, but apparently according to this study Koreans have 83% South East Asian Origins.
I found one:
We may have link with South East Asians because we are all over the place in South East Asia, and Chinese men who intermarry South East Asian women are common, but according to this research Koreans have high percentage of South East Asian origins!
Another one:And another:
https://genographic.nationalgeograph...e-populations/
This website says both Japanese and Chinese have North and South East Asian genetics.
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