This is an old post so maybe not worth commenting on, but I read Mycernius's post where he says he is an atheist and thinks you don't need religion to live with a high standard of morals.
Quote Originally Posted by Mycernius View Post
Just to let you know I'm an atheist.
Is living without religious morals really a bad thing? You don't need religion to live with a high standard of morals
That is no doubt true. However, I wonder where his high standard of morality comes from. And if the next person does not have a high standard of morality, you are stuck. There is nothing you can do or say about it is there? If there is no absolute standard of morality imposed from an eternal God, then in the end, it doesn't really matter how we live our lives. When we die there is no judgment. So some may choose to live what we would call "moral lives" from a religious viewpoint while others may choose to live a very immoral life. If there is no judgment when we die, if there is no God to bring moral justice to bear on humans after death, then outside of personal desire, there is no real reason to live a moral life. Some may choose to do so and others are just as free to choose not to do so. You cannot say that any one particular way of life is right or wrong, good or bad, moral or immoral. It is just a matter of personal opinion and choice.
However, it is interesting though that Mycernius seems to think it is good to live a "moral life" though, whatever he means by a moral life. I wonder why he thinks that. Could it be because God wrote His moral code on our hearts when He created us? Could it be that our consciences are given to us by God to reflect His laws?
I wonder why he thinks his way of living is better than someone who chooses not to live according to his particular idea of what "high moral standards" are. How do we define what high moral standards are anyway? Is his idea of high moral standards really right? How do we know? I guess it would come down to personal opinion wouldn't it.
In other words, an atheist cannot justify his ideas of morality. That means that Hitler's morality is no better or no worse than his. To say his morality is better would be a bit arrogant. Who is to say that the chemical processes in his brain are more accurate than the chemical processes in Hitler's brain that produced Hitler's brand of morality? Does might make right? Why or why not? When it comes down to it, we have to admit that there cannot be any ultimate right and wrong in an atheistic worldview.
So if Mycernius lived in Hitler's time and his parents were taken to the gas chambers, he could not say it is wrong, at least in the ultimate sense of the word.(since that kind of morality cannot exist in a world without a God who is over humans.) He could say that he doesn't think it is right. Or that he doesn't like it. Or that it used to be illegal.(At that point it was not illegal.) After the war, the courts also agreed with him that it was wrong, but still that is only a human viewpoint and there is no ultimate punishment for Hitler. If he would have won the war, he would have gotten away with it. Many murderers get away with their crime. How utterly unfair if there will never be any ultimate justice.
Our hearts cry for justice in this world. Why? Why is justice better than injustice? Why is love any better than hate? Why is honesty any better than dishonesty? The biblical answer is that God Himself is just, honest, and love. Morality is defined by the character of God himself. If there is no god, no one can definitively say that love is better than hate, honesty than dishonesty, or justice than injustice. It all comes down to a matter of personal opinion - personal taste.
However, even if it was something that was not illegal, I'm sure Mycernius would cry foul if someone with a low view of morality treated him in an unjust way. But that is not possible in his worldview. He would be making amoral judgment that his worldview does not permit. We can't have it both ways. Atheists want to borrow the idea of morals from the Bible without having to deal with the God who established those morals. But you cannot separate these two. And anyway, why would you want to? A God who encourages this kind of moral life cannot be a bad guy, can He? Either there is a God who established ultimate morality and wrote his laws on our hearts as Romans 2: 14,15 says, or there is no such god. If that is the case, in the end, it doesn't really matter how we live our lives. Free? Oh yes. Wonderfully free. But this type of freedom comes at an unforgivable price. It forces us to admit that our lives are meaningless. And no one can live life if they really think that life is meaningless. If there is no judgment after death, no justice, no ultimate morality, no ultimate rules we must follow, it follows that it doesn't matter how we live our lives in the ultimate sense. One chooses to be "good" and one chooses to be "bad"(These terms are meaningless because there is no ultimate standard to define them). So you are free to live however you want. There is no god to whom you have to be responsible to. Go ahead and live it up! What wonderful freedom?! I can live my life however I want to. I can have sex with my neighbor's wife if I want to. But I don't want my neighbor to have sex with my wife that's for sure. I don't want him to infringe on my life. He is not free to live however he wants to. I want him to respect my property. I want him to be kind to me. I want him to treat my children with respect. No way Jose! I don't want him to live his life however he wants to if it infringes on my freedom.
But then you need to be careful not to infringe on other's freedom.

Hmm. Seems like we have a bit of an inconsistency here. I want to live my life however I want to. I don't need God to live a moral life. But I don't want others to live as if they are free if it infringes on me. Can't have it both ways, can we?

What happens if your neighbor does treat you with disrespect and make life miserable for you? Is he doing something wrong? No, because there is no ultimate right or wrong. Hmm. It seems that this kind of idea is one that doesn't really work in real life. You can't live by atheistic standards unless you impose restrictions on others. But who are you to impose restrictions on others. They are not binding. You don't have authority. This is where you need God. So if you can't live in harmony with your worldview, what good is it? I wonder if it is really true or not.

thoughts to ponder
tj