Quote Originally Posted by Duo
From what I can make of these threads, I think the question should be changed into should the japanese stop assuming that foreigners are stupid ? ;)
Quote Originally Posted by Glenn
Japanese people say that their language is hard...
I will grant them that their writing system is probably the most complicated in the world...
It seems that on the whole Japanese people think that they have the hardest language in the world, and there's no way anyone non-Japanese could possibly learn it...
But it does point at a trend of Japanese pride and a belief that no one can understand them and that they are uniquely unique.
Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
I think that most Japanese assume that foreigners cannot learn their language because its "ooh so difficult". In fact it may be one of the easiest language in the world except for the particles (which even the Japanese have problem with) and the kanji (not difficult, just a matter of time and practice).
Let's hold there for a moment and find out what was the cause for the Japanese to consider their language unique and difficult to learn. While many Westerners passed thru Japan and were exposed to the language, not many bothered to learn it as can be seen in the posts of epigene, jt, and pachipro in the folowing quotes.
Quote Originally Posted by epigene
I almost never meet Westerners. Only those I meet are people I know through work (an environment where everyone is expected to be able to speak at least Japanese and English--so I speak either language and no one minds) and tourists with their eyes glued to maps, standing in the streets of Shinjuku...
I grew up seeing Americans (GIs) who never learned anything more than a few phrases in Japanese after several years or even decades of living in Japan...
I made acquaintance in the past with some married to Japanese, but their Japanese capabilities were limited.
Quote Originally Posted by jt
I think it's much more likely that they simply felt that they could get by without learning it. I mean, when you consider that most of them were living in military bases where they could get by speaking English all the time and had more contact with English speakers than Japanese speakers, and that most of them probably had no intention of remaining in Japan any longer than they had to, is it really that surprising that they wouldn't put forth the massive effort that would be required to achieve advanced proficiency in Japanese?
Quote Originally Posted by PachiPro
Not one of my friends, peers, or higher ranking personnel that I knew on that base took any time or effort to learn the language save for a few phrases that would get them by. In the end, I only knew of two people, both Navy personnel that did learn the language and eventually live and go to school in Japan like myself.

As jt_ said there was no need for them to learn. All business and shopping was conducted on the base in English and living on a base is no different than living in a small town in the US.
...
The same holds true for a lot of the kids of international businessmen and embassy people that I went to school with at Sophia University's International Division. Alot of them knew almost nothing of the Japanese culture or language and had no desire to learn. Even their parents were surprisingly ignorant when it came to Japanese and the Japanese culture.
...
they shopped at the international food stores, ate mostly western food and hob nobbed with only other foreigners or those of their culture. These were not only Americans, but Canadian, Middle Eastern, English, Dutch, German, you name it.
According to these posts, during the occupation period until quite recently, US servicemen considered the Japanese language "not necessary and not worth the trouble of learning." Furthemore they did not mingle with the Japanese either for practical purposes or for socializing.

Now whether this fact corroborated by the three individuals can be generalized to all foreigners during 1945 to recent times remains to be seen. Also, the general attitudes of foreigners in Japan from the Meji era down to 1945 regarding learning Japanese remains to be examained.

Although I should probably have to stack up more evidence to prove my point, I would say that the majority of foreigners/Westernere in Japan were not much different.

So I would hesitate to point the finger at the Japanese for believing that
1. Japanese is difficult to learn for foreingers.
2. Japanese is therefore unique.
3. It is very unusual that a foreigner should speak fluent Japanese because it is known that such proficiency is not possible.

Now who gave sufficient cause for the Japanese to think so?
1. The majority of Westerners since the Meiji era to 1910 did NOT learn much Japanese except a select few that Maciamo mentioned. (Of course there should be more. But how many more? Perhaps 1-5% of all foreigners in Japan at that time?)
2. The majority of Westerners during the occupation by US. According to PachiPro, none else than him, (with the exeption of two individuals,) were eager to learn Japanese throughout his military career, and the projected ratio is near 1% of all US personnel in Japan.

The beliefs that you claim that the Japanese are holding tight to are not the result of some supernational linguists propaganda, but the majority of foreigners/Westernes in the late 19th century and the post occupation period who simply thought Japanese was not necessary for survival, and that learning Japanese was not worth the trouble.
Quote Originally Posted by Glenn
I would guess, though, that this way of thinking is probably on the way out with the high numbers of foreigners in Japan who speak Japanese.
No doubt, with many people like you, the old ideas will be replaced. Japanese will eventually be understood as an easy language to learn.

Japanese may be unique in its isolated typology, (with some paleo-Asiatic, or Altaic connection) but not so unique that it defies all efforts to learn it to proficiency. Foreigners of all color, including Westerners/Caucasians, are no more handicapped than the avearge Japanese.

But this is a recent trend. And if anybody is going to see the changes happening first, it sure looks like you will be the first witnesses to this positive change.