Are Japanese more hypocritical with foreigners ?

[Ewok85]

Wait until you let out "yeah, we have four seasons but its the opposite in Australia, when its summer in Japan its winter in Australia", call me mad but hardly anyone I met in Japan can get their head around that one...

[ragedaddy]

Man, it drives me nuts when I'm asked, "Do you have this in America?" when it's something obviously not from Japan. Especially words, like "virus."
(Rolls eyes.....)
I've compiled a list of things I've been asked if are in America....
1. 4 seasons
2. convenience stores
3. Disney Land
4. Snoop and Winnie the Pooh
The list goes on.....

Yeah, here goes the strangest thing I have ever heard a Japanese ask a foreigner, it comes from one of my buddy's homestay Brother.... Do all Americans own a gun, and have you ever shot someone? I have been asked that a couple times as well, if all Americans carry around guns. That is utterly lunacy at it's finest. I know a lot of US news that makes it to Japan is related to violence, murder, and other negative aspects, but to contemplate that everyone in the US has guns is ludicrous.

I agree with Maciamo's point to a certain extent. When I was living in Tokyo I noticed too that many of the tenins' would give the formal greetings to Japanese customers, but when it came to me I'm lucky that I got a Doumo. However, it seemed like the majority of these people who displayed the lack of politeness to me tended to be older. Although, there have been many times where younger aged workers would actually be polite to me as they would to any other Japanese person. I remember this one time when older guy rang my stuff up, and after I received it I told him "arigatou gozaimasu," and the guy forced out a muttered "doumo." Therefore, with my experience I have noticed younger people are likely to be more respectful than older generations. This is what I gathered from living there, but who knows that's just my opinion.

I think that some reasons of people asking me like, "You can actually use chop sticks," or "You can speak Japanese," comes from the fact that there are many Japanese who have never been exposed much to Western cultures. In my opinion, it seems that some people tend to be a little more "Naive," than ignorant. It may seem insulting to Westerners, but I think there are Japanese people that have never fathomed the concept of Westerners actually being able to do such tasks.

[lexico]

However, it seemed like the majority of these people who displayed the lack of politeness to me tended to be older. Although, there have been many times where younger aged workers would actually be polite to me as they would to any other Japanese person......Therefore, with my experience I have noticed younger people are likely to be more respectful than older generations.

Very interesting you say that, ragedaddy.
I've been wondering:
Why are most of the Japanese I've met in school so cheerful, polite, easy to get along, mature, (mutually) respectful, and absolutely without obvious prejudice, whereas quite a few of the aged people I've met are often rude, illogical, stubborn, and "child like."

Your observation solves some of my long-held mystery about the strange differences I've seen.

But then again, young American's were so much more natural and friendly than some of my older neighbors who seemed starkly prejudiced if not racist.

EDIT: seemed shoud be acted

[Maciamo]

Therefore, with my experience I have noticed younger people are likely to be more respectful than older generations.

That is true to a certain extend, but there are also older people polite and respectful to foreigners (esp. if they have had contacts with other foreigners before), and young people that are downright racists (I have had a few yakuza-like men shouting at me in the streets as I was quietly riding my bicyle). I have also noticed than young teenagers and especially children tend to be more insulting toward foreigners. It is not that they stare, point their finger and giggle (like bad-mannered children do all around the world), but listenning to their remarks, you can see how their parents or environment has already instilled them prejudice against foreigners.

For example, the other day a 10-year-old or so boy was near my house when I came back home (I think his grandmother lives in that street), but he kept looking at me with suspicious eyes and followed me till my doorsteps. He asked 2 or 3 times with a contemptful voice "nani shiteru no ?" ("what are you doing here ?"). So, as I was going to open my door, I turned to him and replied politely "koko ni sundeimasu" ("I live here"), and he just said in a surprised and still suspicious way "nihongo dekiru no ?" ("oh, can you speak Japanese ?") and he ran away. I could feel that he was not the kind of boy happy to me a foreigner, but at the contrary looked at me as if I was a criminal.

I think that some reasons of people asking me like, "You can actually use chop sticks," or "You can speak Japanese," comes from the fact that there are many Japanese who have never been exposed much to Western cultures.

That's not true. It's impossible not to be exposed to Western culture everyday in Japan. Most movies at the theatre and many movies and series on TV are Western (while there are virtually no Japanese or Asian movies showing in Western countries). There are so many Westerners in Tokyo that it is impossible to take the subway without seeing one. Then with tens of thousands of NOVA, AEON, GEOS and other language schools where teachers are all native speakers (so foreigners), and millions of Japanese attending these classes (even if just a few times), there is a much higher chance that the average Japanese has already met, talked to or at least observed Westerners on TV many times, rather than the average Westerner having met a Japanese (except those living near very touristical spots).

In my opinion, it seems that some people tend to be a little more "Naive," than ignorant. It may seem insulting to Westerners, but I think there are Japanese people that have never fathomed the concept of Westerners actually being able to do such tasks.

These are fake excuses. I know many Japanese people who have lived in Western countries and still ask such dumb questions. Even the Japanese who were introduced to me by a Western friend (and thus having at least one Western friend) still ask these routine questions. Maybe its' just a custom of greeting foreigners in Japan to ask them if they can eat natto or sushi and if they can, try to ask for other kind of food until there is one sort of Japanese food the foreigner cannot eat. But I can feel that they want to be unique and want the "foreigner" to appear inferior for not being able to do such simple everyday things as eating such or such food, using chopsticks or reading kanji (when in fact many Japanese are not very proficient themselves).

Last week, as I was substituting a group English class and reading an English/Japanese article, a 50ish woman seemed very surprised that I could read the kanji for such "difficult" terms as pledge (公約), catastrophe (大災害) or refugee (難民), although these are all pretty basic kanji. When I hesitated for the first kanji of a word (援助資金 : relief fund), she said "aah, anshin shita yo !" ("aah, I feel better now !") as she just couldn't accept the fact that a foreigner could read Japanese after staying only 3 years in Japan. I could feel that deep inside this person wanted to feel like the Japanese were superior to the rest of the world. It didn't help when she proudly said a few minutes later that, "the news on TV said that Australia had pledged the largest relief fund for the Tsunami victims, but in fact it was Japan that had already donated the highest sum so far, and that Japan was the biggest donor in the world". I had to correct her that it was actually the EU (but she didn't seem very happy by that truth).

[Ewok85]

I have also noticed than young teenagers and especially children tend to be more insulting toward foreigners. It is not that they stare, point their finger and giggle (like bad-mannered children do all around the world), but listenning to their remarks, you can see how their parents or environment has already instilled them prejudice against foreigners.

...and the other stuff...

This is a mixed bag, you can be sitting on a train and some young child will sit and stare at you (and I'll make faces back, its only fair ) and thats OK, I can definitely understand it in Pookas case. Then you have the ones that ask slighty strange questions to their parents who give stranger answers back.

I helped teach 9-12 year old children a martial art and they have to be the most open and unassuming Japanese I've ever met (2nd being university students from a medical university, great people, would love to meet them all again). Apart from an initial "oh, you speak japanese" it was on, they'd just let loose with their favorite tv shows, what had happened at school that day, all the latest playground goss, and afterwards their parents would say Hi and they soon knew me and accepted me as just another person in the group, no assumptions, no special treatment, no strange questions.

I guess if you look hard enough you'll find something, but otherwise you'll just be stuck in a crappy loop...

[Maciamo]

I helped teach 9-12 year old children a martial art and they have to be the most open and unassuming Japanese I've ever met (2nd being university students from a medical university, great people, would love to meet them all again). Apart from an initial "oh, you speak japanese" it was on, they'd just let loose with their favorite tv shows, what had happened at school that day, all the latest playground goss, and afterwards their parents would say Hi and they soon knew me and accepted me as just another person in the group, no assumptions, no special treatment, no strange questions.

I guess if you look hard enough you'll find something, but otherwise you'll just be stuck in a crappy loop...

I have met kids as you describe, but so far they have been a minority of the younger Japanese (under 15) I have met. What surprises me is that such kids would come at me and say strange things in the street (or make comments about "gaijin"to their friends/parents assuming I can't understand what they say).

[mad pierrot]

@Pachipro

In respect to the "blanket statements" that have been made, I urge you to look over the post again and look at the disclaimers! I don't think the half empty/half full argument is the point here; rather, it's the way Japanese people in general react towards cultural outsiders. When I first came to Japan, I spent a year living in Osaka. And, like it's been said, I was subject to the same inane questions as every other foreigner. It didn't piss me off. It never has. It might get annoying once and awhile, but obviously it hasn't driven me to hysterics. It has made me more interested in why Japanese people perceive foreigners as being so. I'm simply curious as to the underlying social aspects of this. Again, this isn't just groundless complaining, but rather a critique in general. Calling all sociologists...

I wasn't going to post this next story originally, but I think it's relevant now.

I've been living in a small town in Wakayama now for about two years. The people here are always nice to me, and incredibly friendly. Consequently, I've done my best to take part in the community, volunteering with people, visiting my neighbors, etc. I have never known such great people. Example: When I was sick during Christmas, EVERYBODY took care of me. My neighbors brought me hot soup, took me to the hospital, my boss brought me TONS of food, people were always calling to see how I was doing. Those were the nicest things anyone has ever done for me. My neighbors even came over and did my dishes. (The tried to clean my whole house, but I stopped them. )

That's the good story. Next comes the bad one. The bad reflects quite negatively on these same people, but it makes a valid point. Not sure if I'll post it yet.

[Pachipro]

Man, it drives me nuts when I'm asked, "Do you have this in America?" when it's something obviously not from Japan. Especially words, like "virus."
(Rolls eyes.....)
I've compiled a list of things I've been asked if are in America....
1. 4 seasons
2. convenience stores
3. Disney Land
4. Snoop and Winnie the Pooh
The list goes on.....

But what I find the most shocking is when Japanese think that they invented everything they use, see or hear in everyday life in Japan, when in fact so many things are Western. In the same way as Mad Pierrot explained how some Japanese don't seem to know that Winnie the Pooh is English and not Japanese, many Japanese think that many Western things are originally Japanese (but are not).

Let's reverse this. Is it not the same in America and Europe? Don't most, especially the younger generation, feel that most everything they see was invented in their own country?

My wife and I have been asked similar things here in the states. It's always hot in Japan isn't it? Do you have TV's, satellite TV, highways, CD players, etc. Most people assume that Japan is still a third world country. They are ignorant of the fact that Japan is a modern, industrialized country much like the US or Europe. Heck, most Americans don't even know that a large majority of what they perceive to be American products are in fact foreign. Shell oil and Toyota come to mind. They, mostly the younger ones, are shocked when they find out that Shell is in fact Dutch, and Toyota is a Japanese company. A few even assume that "Cup of Noodle" is an American invented product. Much the same as in Japan with your observations above. It must be the same all over and I don't think it is unique to Japan.

Does it bother my wife and annoy her that, after 16 years in the states, she is asked similar things by Americans? (She's even asked often if she eats meat!) No, she just tries to educate them and has come to understand that a majority of people are not taught about Japan. It's a sad but true fact.

Therefore, while in Japan as "educators" why not try and educate the Japanese rather than being annoyed to the point of irritation? After 30 years experience, I do not think it is going to change. Those questions will come time and time again until someone educates them. So far, I don't think it is going to be the educational institutions.

Personally, I enjoyed answering the "stupid and dumb" questions over and over and over again, after laughing out loud first, as it was an opportunity to teach somebody something they didn't already know. Afterwards, I'm sure they would not ask that question again of a foreigner as now they were enlightened. I used to love watching the kids, Junior and High, and even some college students', faces light up with shock, disbelief, and surprise when they were informed that Disneyland is not Japanese, Snoopy was born in America, and the "Circle K" and "7-11" combinis are American among other answers. I think I remember reading somewhere that "7-11" is now owned by Ito Yokkado.

I used to answer in Japanese, "Of course I can eat with chopsticks, eat sushi, sleep in a futon, cook my own rice, etc. etc. I've lived here for 16 years!" My polite answer to their "dumb" question kind of humbled some of them and I'm sure they felt awkward asking that question.

Don't get me wrong here, I was just as annoyed during my early years in Japan as some of you to the point of wanting to scream at the top of my lungs, "What! Are you all a bunch of idiots! Are we all nothing but talking dogs to you people, here for your amusement?" But I learned to study, observe, and learn from the Japanese people and culture and why they acted in this way. I asked many questions of the Japanese. Soon, my thinking slowly turned 180 degrees and it no longer irritated me as I learned that, no matter what, the Japanese are basically not prejudiced, xenophobic, or have an underlying dislike of all foreigners. They are just a curious island people who were taught that they, their history, and their ways are unique to the rest of the world and any foreigner that adapts, or tries to adapt, is the most curious and unique of all. Answering "dumb" questions, I hope, helped set the record straight with those I came in contact with.

Therefore, I looked at myself as a kind of unofficial "cultural ambassador" as it was obvious that no one else was going to educate them.

[Pachipro]

Am I missing something here or has something drastically changed in Japan? I have never felt the way some of you do in my 16 years living there and my yearly visits. Like Maciamo, I rarely met any foreigners, save for a few friends and none of my Japanese friends spoke a lick of English.

Sure, I get frustated sometimes over the "20 question" routine I get over, and over, and over again, but I've become accustomed to it. This is Japan after all and you are going to get it again and again. Get used to it.

Here are my thoughts on the subject:

For example, no later than today, as I was queuing at the supermarket cashier, the careless woman in front of me walked back and stepped on my foot. She first started a typical "ahh, suuumimaseeen !", but as she turned and saw that I was not Japanese, her voice faded before she finished her "sumimasen" and she just walked away with a strange look on her face. This has happened to me times and again.

Why was she "careless"? Isn't that a mistake that ALL people, regardless of race make? She started to apologize, but when she saw that you were a foreigner, she probably became flustered and was at a loss for words. She assumed that you didn't speak Japanese and she didn't speak another language and she more than likely, became embarrassed and didn't know what to do. That "strange look on her face" as you put it was, more than likely embarrassment. It will happen to you again and again.

First, when I mentioned that to my wife or some Japanese friends, I heard "excuses" such as "they think you don't understand Japanese because you are a foreigner", or the like. But these are really just (prejudiced) excuses.

They are right. Why must they always be "prejudiced" excuses? Why must you assume that because she was probably flustered that their excuses to you were prejudiced? And why do you think they are "excuses"? They are probably telling you the truth.

At the place near my house where I usually buy my bento, and have been going for 3 years, the staff (you should know m by then), still hardly says anything to me and when they have run out of one kind of bento, make signs crossing fingers and speaking in strange Japanese as if I couldn't understand. They have heard me speak fluent Japanese with my wife, and could not possibly not remember me, but still act in such prejudiced ways (while I always speak Japanese with my Japanese friends, and the have no problem understanding me at all).

Have you tried addressing them first like, "Good morning. Nice day today isn't it? I hope it doesn't rain today." Do you have a conversation with them everytime you go in there? I did at the places I used to frequent for dinner and such and I was always treated the same as other Japanese customers. I never felt any different. And here again you say they "...still act in such prejudiced ways." Again the word prejudice pops in. Why?

The worst is when those kind of shop's staff thank the previous (Japanese) customer with "arigoto gozaimaashitaaa, mata okoshi kudasaimaseee" then when it is my turn, they just don't say anything or mumble a quick and dry "arigato gozaimass" as if they were angry.

Again, why assume that if they don't say anything or mumble a quick arrigato that they may be angry or treating you different? Can it not be that they are shy or flustered when it comes to dealing with foreigners? Again, why not engage them in conversation each and every time?

This week again, as I was riding my bike at lunchtime in crowded central Tokyo, a police car stopped with the policeman rushing toward me and asking if that was my bicycle and checked the registration number. There were other bicycles around, so my intentionally stop me for no reason. That is very embarassing in front of hundreds of people (and made me come late to my appointment, as it took a few minutes).

Look, you are a foreigner in Japan, and like myself, you will be stopped now and again on your bicycle and asked for proof of ownership, etc. Foreigners, as well as Japanese, are known to steal bicycles. Hell, I even stole one out of frustration one night when no cab refused to pick me up. I will post that story shortly. Why assume that because they stopped you they were prejudice? It's their job to stop foreigners on bicycles. It never bothered me when I found out why they stopped me. It's just a fact of life there for foreigners.

The policeman was also surprised that I spoke so well Japanese and asked me if I had lived for over 10 years in Japan. Again that is very prejudiced to think that foreigners can't speak decent Japanese just after a few years's stay (or maybe because he couldn't do the same in English).

Again, I am just amazed that you use the word prejudice again. Why assume that because he asked you if lived there over 10 years that he is prejudiced? Can't you say "I think it's very prejudiced..." instead of "..that is very prejudiced.." Why make a blanket statement like that? He is more than likely surprised and impressed, as the Japanese find that any foreigner who can speak their language fluently must have lived in Japan a very long time as the Japanese themselves find it very difficult for them to learn a foreign language. When the police stopped me and found out that I also was fluent, I was usually treated with respect and I never felt that they were prejudiced just because they asked me how long I lived in Japan.

But taking things a step further, I'd like to say that the attitude of many Japanese toward foreigners is very different from the one they use between themselves. When the "foreigner" is a "customer/guest" (kyaku-san) and people treat him/her even better than they would treat a Japanese, with lots of blatant flattery (sometimes annoyingly so, like the fake expression of amazement at how well a gaijin can use chopsticks or eat sushi - which in fact conceals a deep-rooted cultural prejudice that foreigners are inferior to Japanese).

Here we go again with a blanket statement of "-which in fact conceals a deep-rooted cultural prejudice that foreigners are inferior to Japanese." Do you know this to be a fact? Or are you just assuming again? Can't you understand and accept that the Japanese will always flatter you with your use of chopsticks, or the fact that you eat sushi, or sleep on a futon, or can speak Japanese and read kanji? They are genuinely impressed because most foreigners DON"T or CAN'T. It is not a "fake expression of amazement". It is real. Sure it can be annoying, but I came to accept the fact that it will happen again and again and again and again. Just because they do it, it does not mean they are prejudice unless you know something I don't.

But when the foreigner is not a "kyaku-san" or reluctantly so (esp. in small shops), we can see how this was really hypocrisy, as this time the gaijin is treated like a weird animal and not even like a standard Japanese customer.

Another blanket statement. It is not hypocrisy. You may want to feel like you were treated like some weird animal, but I am sure you did not receive the same treatment in all stores in your own country, just I do not here. I may have been treated with a little aloofness now and then in a Japanese store, but I did not feel like I was a weird animal. I knew it to be out of frustration or embarrassment at not being able to speak the foreigners language.

One chooses to feel how one wants to feel and if one wants to feel like one is always being prejudiced against, or being treated like some weird animal, or that no one likes you because one is a foreigner, then that is one's right. But take it from me, with over 30 years experience with Japan and the Japanese, I think you are way off the mark with your blanket observations and statements as I have never felt the way you do. Don't get me wrong here, in some instances I was angry, or upset, or thought "Oh no, here we go again with the praise and questions." But I have learned to understand why and accepted it without thinking that the Japanese are prejudice or hypocrits, because in my opinion they are not. Sure you have your typical few who do not like foreigners under any circumstance, but it is the same in any country I think.

How do I know this? Because I have many Japanese friends who do not speak English and have never been to a foreign country and have asked numerous Japanese over and over again why are they are so amazed at foreigners who know their language and customs. Why are we always praised for our use of chopsticks and such? Why is it that some Japanese refuse to acknowledge in a store that we are speaking Japanese and the answer is always the same: "We are so impressed when a foreigner learns our language and customs that we must say something as it is very difficult for us to do the same. (Translation:mental block) We sometimes are so tuned in to the fact that 99% of the foreigners that we do meet (which is not often) cannot speak Japanese that we sometimes do not hear that they are speaking Japanese. (Mental block again) If we encounter one, we become so embarrassed, shy, or flustered, that we do not know what to do so we say nothing or something real quick and leave." Thus the lady who stepped on your foot, the policeman who was surprised at your Japanese, the constant praise you get for something as so simple as using chopsticks.

Me, I've learned to live with it and go with the flow because I know it will happen again. Just look at the "gaijin tarento" on TV. They get the same questions and praise.

You run a great place here Maciamo and my hat is off to you, but I do hope you come to look at Japan and the Japanese like a glass of water that is half full instead of half empty.

[wendygirljp]

It does appear that cultural perception seems to be colored by age. For what I see, the younger the average message sender, the quicker one is to call "prejudice", instead of realizing cultural differentiation and relativity.

Yes, one can find sites on youtube, for example, which shows the "overwhelming hatred" of foreigners in Japan. Nothing like taking a small minority of acts/situations and making them the norm.

Like in any group, the 3% rule applies - 3% of the group are the radicals and make 97% of the noise. This also goes with those posting here, of course.

Japan, like ANYWHERE, has its great points and "not so great" points. It depends on which you prefer to see and which you may filter out. Please do not let your fears get in the way of your perceiving people accurately.

[gaijinalways]

For what I see, the younger the average message sender, the quicker one is to call "prejudice", instead of realizing cultural differentiation and relativity.

Interesting statement. So since Japan signed the UN agreement and they still haven't (some time later)made any discrimination law(s) that is because;

discrimination is not a big problem here (stated by one elder politician)

we're still studying the problem (and waiting for the comfort women to die too)

HIS was charging higher prices for foreigners

Like in any group, the 3% rule applies - 3% of the group are the radicals and make 97% of the noise. This also goes with those posting here, of course.

I challenge the 3% rule. I can count a much larger percentage of people who at best are just ignorant or will tell you they can't trust Chinese, black people, etc. When you ask when they have dealt with such a person, they quite often answer never, my grandfather, etc.. told me about them or even better, all Japnese know that. Amazing what they 'all' must know!

[Alucardqueen]

I'm really glad I found this site! Like many other people I always dreamed about going to Japan so I wanted to learn more about it so as not to look foolish when I did go. I was under the impression that they were a nice helpful clean and high-tech people. Although most of them do sound to be all of those things. Really I should have thought more clearly about it. They are like another people after all; they have their faults to just like we all do.

I didn’t think they were racist though? How sad...I feel almost as if I should not go if they hate people like me or my country... It doesn’t help that I'm female, sounds like from what was said earlier in this forum that they don’t have high aspirations for women either...so really not looking good for a little white female that wants to live there someday. Didn’t someone say earlier that they don't like democracy on top of it? Hmmm...Maybe, not sure. I’m still gunna try and go there though despite it all! What does everyone else think about it?


P.S.I apologize if anything I said was rude or out of line. I don't mean to hurt anyone of course! I just wanted some answers. Sorry.

[uchimizu]

I would add to this that perception of discrimination really depends from your personal context, and how secure you feel about your position in Japan.

I remember that when I was in a delicate situation at my job in Tokyo, I really saw discrimination everywhere (having the impression people were looking at me strangely in the subway ...). Then, I moved back to Europe, and came back to Japan as a tourist, and I felt much more relaxed. At that time, I did not feel there was discrimination anywhere.

Anyways, just my 5 cents...

It does appear that cultural perception seems to be colored by age. For what I see, the younger the average message sender, the quicker one is to call "prejudice", instead of realizing cultural differentiation and relativity.
Yes, one can find sites on youtube, for example, which shows the "overwhelming hatred" of foreigners in Japan. Nothing like taking a small minority of acts/situations and making them the norm.
Like in any group, the 3% rule applies - 3% of the group are the radicals and make 97% of the noise. This also goes with those posting here, of course.
Japan, like ANYWHERE, has its great points and "not so great" points. It depends on which you prefer to see and which you may filter out. Please do not let your fears get in the way of your perceiving people accurately.