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View Poll Results: How do you feel when a Japanese calls you "gaijin" ?

Voters
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  • "You are an outsider and will never belong to Japanese society" (exclusion)

    17 29.31%
  • "You are an outsider, ignorant of Japanese ways" (cultural ignorance)

    17 29.31%
  • "You are different from us ! Hahaha !" (childish differentiation)

    12 20.69%
  • "You are not Japanese, but I am" (opposition)

    13 22.41%
  • "You are not a Japanese national" (on the passport)

    11 18.97%
  • "You are not an ethnic Japanese" (different looks)

    13 22.41%
  • "Wow ! You are better than me !" (awe)

    8 13.79%
  • Don't know

    10 17.24%
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Thread: What connotation does the term "gaijin" have for you ?

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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyshepp View Post
    I just don't get it. Why you care what some Japanese think of you if it's not in your best light? Why you care if they call you gajin? So what? That really bother you and if so why? Inferiority complez or illusions of granduer? And leave my spelling out of this!
    Some ya'll seem just a bit too sensitive.
    See imo that's part of the problem, many people that come here have not or never been exposed to being on the receiving end of any racial discrimination and it is an eye opener for them.

    They end up putting the "blame" for the discrimination on the Japanese people when whether or not they are aware of it they have been the ones that may have been subconsciously been discriminating against others.

    When the shoe is one the "other" foot it puts them in an uncomfortable position that they have probably never been in before, hence the need to find fault with "all" Japanese as being guilty of racism against "foreigners"

    In fact there is racism against many foreigners here in Japan, yet in my experience it is those that "allow" themselves to be victimized that end up being the ones that ***** the most.

  2. #2
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alt View Post
    See imo that's part of the problem, many people that come here have not or never been exposed to being on the receiving end of any racial discrimination and it is an eye opener for them.
    You may be right, but I have another problem with it. Here in Belgium, and in many other European countries (e.g. Netherlands, as leonmarino said it), discrimination or racism is normally directed at a national, ethnic or religious group that is held responsible for a lot of crimes and problems in the country. For instance, it cannot be denied that the Moroccans in Belgium cause much more trouble than any other group, and indeed 1/3 of people in Belgian jails are Moroccans (which is completely disproportionate to their number, but nevertheless a fact). As leonmarino said, these groups are typically lower-class. I would even say that before living in Brussels (where more than half of the Moroccans in the country live), I thought of them as "lower class", but now I see them as "underclass" because their social level (weath, education, manners...) is so much lower than the Belgian lower class.

    What I mean by this is that in Belgium or Europe in general, people discriminate or hold racist feelings for justified reasons against a very specific group, NOT all foreigners, and not even all Muslims. I would say that it is mainly directed at male Moroccans, in Belgium, as we very rarely hear of women causing troubles, do not speak with such a strong accent on purpose, do not provoke or commit vandalism or crimes, and in consequence they also tend to get better jobs. So far the only Morrocan people which I have met working for Belgian or international companies (shops, real estate, etc.) were all women.

    The problem I have with the Japanese is that they do not differentiate foreigners by national, ethnic, linguistic or religious groups, and just put everyone under the term "gaijin". They are especially good at that when reporting crimes in the news, or when blaming "gaijin" for the woes of Japan. If they directed their anger at a particular group with facts to support their claims, I would not mind. What I cannot accept is that :

    1) they associate me with lower-class economic immigrants. I was told by one of my English-school employers, while negotiating the salary, that "foreigners come to Japan to make easy money because Japan is a rich country". I automatically replied that my country had a higher living standard and higher salaries than Japan, as did most Western countries (see article).

    2) they discriminate against people who belong to an equal or higher social class, are equally or better educated than them, equally rich or richer than them, etc.

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    1) they associate me with lower-class economic immigrants. I was told by one of my English-school employers, while negotiating the salary, that "foreigners come to Japan to make easy money because Japan is a rich country". I automatically replied that my country had a higher living standard and higher salaries than Japan, as did most Western countries (see article).
    I couldn't have hold my laughter if I were in that position.. As the article point out, Japan doesn't look at all like a first-world country in some aspects!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    2) they discriminate against people who belong to an equal or higher social class, are equally or better educated than them, equally rich or richer than them, etc.
    It seems like you are saying it is ok to discriminate against people of lower class and not against others. I know you don't mean that, and that you say it is understandable (from a historical/social point of view) why people would discriminate against people of lower classes, right?

    Anyway, it is indeed very frustrating that I and other people are being discriminated against. I think it is because many foreigners, including me, do not understand and follow every little rule in Japan. These constant culture shocks form the image of foreigners being different than Japanese. Sure, there are also Japanese people who break the rules or are impolite sometimes, but they don't stand out in the crowd.

    Speaking of "standing out", don't you think the fact that foreigners are easy to detect is also causing this racism? In Europe you can hardly see any difference between many people, Dutch, German, English, Belgian.. We all look the same. (Although I love to argue that we Dutch are different than you Belgians ) In Japan, any non-Japanese person would stand out immediately. This simple "they look different, so they must also be different from the inside"-way of thinking.. I think that factor also contributes to the in-group/out-group bias.

    Nonetheless, it is indeed frustrating, and from comtemporary western views it is.. Not good. But hey, what can you do about it?

  4. #4
    puzzled gaijin
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    Good points leonmarino, people looking different than oneself would make it easier to distinguish them as different, especially in a country like Japan where many residents have similar Asian features (I am thinking more of the Chinese, Koreans, and the Japanese, and yes, I know there are some broad diffrences, but often they are indistinguishable amongst themselves, unless their manner, dress, or language gives them away). The Japanese have never been able to let go on that aspect. Not that it is easy anywhere, but especially here, I think that is why so few non-Asians here take up citizenship (not that Japan's lack of a real immigration policy helps either), they realize that it is almost impossible to be fully accepted as an equal here.

  5. #5
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonmarino View Post
    It seems like you are saying it is ok to discriminate against people of lower class and not against others. I know you don't mean that, and that you say it is understandable (from a historical/social point of view) why people would discriminate against people of lower classes, right?
    Yes. Discrimination is nothing more than rejecting certain category of people which are not considered "good enough" to socialise with, work with, or even do business with (e.g. rejecting potential customers because we fear they might cause more trouble than profit). Usually lower-class peolpe, in any society, are those that do not have enough manners, education or good behaviour to be accepted by the others. It used to be ok when the lower classes made up most of the population (until the mid-20th century in the West, and until now in developing countries). It was a richer minority who didn't want to associate with the "poor, dirty and ill-mannered" majority.

    Now that such lower class people have become a minority, the term "discrimination" has become more significant for them. The problem in Europe nowadays is that economic migrants, especially from Africa, are even lower in the social scale than the native lower class. The gap being so big, many natives don't want to interact or socialise with such immigrants because they look so dirty, benighted, or even scary because of their less refined manners and lack of respect for many social conventions (e.g. they throw more rubbish in the street, urinate in public, commit acts of vandalism, talk too loud, spit, behave aggressively...). So yes, it is normal, and even natural, for people of higher classes not to want to associate with such people, regardless of their ethnicity. So even "natives" can belong to the discriminated group.

    Japan's case is a bit different from Europe. The Japanese being so "narrow-minded" in their social expectations and respect of conventions (so much that many Japanese who can't take it anymore leave Japan to live in more liberal Western countries), it is not surprising that their level of tolerance and acceptation toward non-Japanese is so low. It is not necessarily racist because even Japanese born or educated abroad, as well as some Japan-born ones, face such discrimination. People who look non-Japanese are easier targets, because even if they try to behave like "good Japanese", they are rarely given the chance to be accepted as such, just because of their different appearance. This, however, is racism or xenophobia.

    In Europe, I am personally ready to accept immigrants that do effortts to adapt to their host society, behave well, learn the language and culture, etc. I never have negative feelings against well-educated and well-mannered people from any ethnic origin. I have interacted and socialise positively many times with middle or upper-middle class Moroccans. But I just can't accept the "underclass" I often see in the streets of Brussels, because they are very ill-mannered, troublesome and scary (enough to make why wife cry for being around them). So discrimination in this case is not only understandable, it is a natural reaction to protect oneself.

    In Japan, however, I cannot see how some well-educated and well-behaved upper-middle-class Westerners who come to Japan to learn more about the country they like, and even get to know more about the local culture than some natives, should be seen as any "threat" to the locals. Discrimination against them is not based on a major difference of social level, so only actual xenophobia is the cause, which I cannot accept.

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