Japan's backward legal system

[PopCulturePooka]

Interesting read.
I do agree mor sources would ahve been good.

I agree with your views on most things except this:

Pornography is not only legal, it is barely regulated. Any of Japan's ubiquitous convenience store has a dozens of porn magazines, and even other magazines and newspapers usually have pornography in it (otherwise it wouldn't sell). There is no separation between pornographic material and children's comics. In video shops, Walt Disney movies are side-by-side with erotic videos. Some will claim that cultural sensitivities are different, and nudity does not offend Japanese. There is some truth in in it, but that remains unbelievable for Westerners.

You phrase it as if having pornography be legal is bad? Or am I misreading?

Also I find a slight erroneous point in the video shop thing. Every video shop I went to in Japan, iclduing tiny dingy mum and pop joints, had their porn and AV videos in a seperate area, usually fairly obviously the adult movies section and closedof with a curtain or tunnel. Not 'next to the Walt Disney movies'.

[Ma Cherie]

This is sad, but Japan is flawed just like any other nation.

[Maciamo]

This is sad, but Japan is flawed just like any other nation.

Don't be fooled by living in a particularily flawed nation, many Western European countries are not nearly as bad as that - even on other respects.

[Maciamo]

You phrase it as if having pornography be legal is bad? Or am I misreading?

What I meant was that there was no minimu age to buy porn magazine in a combini (to the best of my knowledge), while people can't buy alcohol and tobacco before 20. What's that for a logic ?

Also I find a slight erroneous point in the video shop thing. Every video shop I went to in Japan, iclduing tiny dingy mum and pop joints, had their porn and AV videos in a seperate area, usually fairly obviously the adult movies section and closedof with a curtain or tunnel. Not 'next to the Walt Disney movies'.

Those I went to had a separate section for most porn (more "hard core"), but not for the "erotic" videos (which anyway show nude girls on the cover) that were next to the Disney movies.

[Shooter452]

I do not like the Japanese legal system. I was compelled to deal with it while I was on Okinawa, and it scared the feces out of me with its seeming capriciousness and its utter lack of protections for the accused.

Nevertheless I think that it is presumptious of the US Gov't to declare the Japanese as unjust. They are a different culture. Let me say that again, in case y'all weren't listening: they are a different culture. This should be evident from the fact that they look different, talk different and correspondingly think different from us.

The criminal justice system for Japan works. Ask me how I know! Because they ain't changed it. If they did not like it, it would change. And since the crime figures in Japan (although on the rise) have yet to approach our own, I sense a certain measure of hypocrisy. This "one size fits all" approach to law is more than that, it might even be risky. I can think of no better way to throw a culture into chaos.

I would not want to live under a system of justice like that of the Japanese. Nor would I recommend that they consider adopting that legal system with which we are comfortable.

Facilis descensus Averno

[bossel]

What I meant was that there was no minimu age to buy porn magazine in a combini (to the best of my knowledge), while people can't buy alcohol and tobacco before 20. What's that for a logic ?

Tobacco & alcohol are actually bad for your health, while porn is not. OK, you could say porn is bad for your mental health, but then again, that's not really proven. Or is it? What's more, I doubt that Walt Disney movies are that much better for a kid's mental health.

Those I went to had a separate section for most porn (more "hard core"), but not for the "erotic" videos (which anyway show nude girls on the cover) that were next to the Disney movies.

Now you sound almost like a US American. Nudity is natural, there is absolutely no problem if kids see some boobs. (Or even if they see the real action, IMO)

[Ma Cherie]

Just because Japan is a different culture that does make their legal system no more unjust. And the reason why they probably haven't changed is because they may think their legal system is good.

[PopCulturePooka]

What I meant was that there was no minimu age to buy porn magazine in a combini (to the best of my knowledge), while people can't buy alcohol and tobacco before 20. What's that for a logic ?

Ahh ok. Most stores I visitied had 18+ signs on their porn area, but likely a token gesture.
There was also the half arsed public measure last year where porn mags had to be sealed in the shops.

Nevertheless I think that it is presumptious of the US Gov't to declare the Japanese as unjust. They are a different culture. Let me say that again, in case y'all weren't listening: they are a different culture. This should be evident from the fact that they look different, talk different and correspondingly think different from us.

If they wanna be big world players with the world they take criticism from others, simple enough.

The criminal justice system for Japan works. Ask me how I know! Because they ain't changed it. If they did not like it, it would change. And since the crime figures in Japan (although on the rise) have yet to approach our own, I sense a certain measure of hypocrisy.

I disagree. Japan has a very ingrained culutural belief in keeping system, even if broken because thats the 'way' something is done. Heaven and hell need to be moved to invoke change in Japanese public services and systems and the legal justice system, which is a majorly flawed beast, is one such example. Don't tell me a justice system which automatically prejudices against foreigners, which allows Judges to freely admit their judgements are made only to keep their 99% guilty record and which accused people have very little rights 'works'.

Tobacco & alcohol are actually bad for your health, while porn is not. OK, you could say porn is bad for your mental health, but then again, that's not really proven. Or is it? What's more, I doubt that Walt Disney movies are that much better for a kid's mental health.

Have you watched a selection of Japanese porn?
Can you tell me, with a straight face, that exposing children to a lot of Japanese porn, with themes like rape, bondage, groping, forced sex, humiliation, degradation, simulated pedophilia (all of which are very common in Japanese poen) etc are not harmful to children?
That Disney movies are worse than exposing a kid to that?

Now you sound almost like a US American. Nudity is natural, there is absolutely no problem if kids see some boobs. (Or even if they see the real action, IMO)

Disagree here too. The way Japanese erotic videos and porn are packaged almost universally treat women as subservient and 'controlled' sex objects. Japan has a big problem with the way women are treated and viewed by some men and exposing boys to media which depicts women as subservient objects only useful for sex will not help fix that issue. Its deeper than the 'nudity is natural' track and goes into cultural perceptions of women.

[bossel]

Have you watched a selection of Japanese porn?
Can you tell me, with a straight face, that exposing children to a lot of Japanese porn, with themes like rape, bondage, groping, forced sex, humiliation, degradation, simulated pedophilia (all of which are very common in Japanese poen) etc are not harmful to children?
That Disney movies are worse than exposing a kid to that?

It is fairly secure to say that porn in general doesn't have adverse effects. I know of several studies which showed this. Whether you should let your kids watch porn unsupervised is another question. I'd say, of course not.

Unsupervised access to WD's crap is also not recommendable. The ideal world pictured there might lead to trauma if confronted with the real world (just IMO, though, also depending on the circumstances).

Disagree here too. The way Japanese erotic videos and porn are packaged almost universally treat women as subservient and 'controlled' sex objects. Japan has a big problem with the way women are treated and viewed by some men and exposing boys to media which depicts women as subservient objects only useful for sex will not help fix that issue. Its deeper than the 'nudity is natural' track and goes into cultural perceptions of women.

That's not the problem of erotica, but of society. Negative effects of exposure to some pictures like that are questionable. Blame the parents, not the pic!

[PopCulturePooka]

It is fairly secure to say that porn in general doesn't have adverse effects. I know of several studies which showed this.

Depends on what porn you watch. Again I ask you, is watching simulated rape porn as a child ok? Is watching porn with violent imagery and storyline ok? Porn where women are ravaged by 20 plus men is ok for kids? At least better than Disney? Please tell me straight yes or no as ALL of these types of porn are common in Japan. They are not underground fetishes but readily available forms of AV.
You mean to say that exposing these forms of porn to kids would not have negative developmental effects? Boy thats rich.

Whether you should let your kids watch porn unsupervised is another question. I'd say, of course not.

When it comes to a whole lot of Japanese porn I wouldnt let kids watch it supervised. I know adults who quite happily watch Western porn that get disturbed by Japanese porn.

Unsupervised access to WD's crap is also not recommendable. The ideal world pictured there might lead to trauma if confronted with the real world (just IMO, though, also depending on the circumstances).

Sturm and drang, back this up or start talking sense. You shouldn't make ridiculous arguments. Instead show statistics where kids from anywhere are messed up from watching Mickey Mouse and Beauty & the BEast. I'd dare say you would be VERY hard pressed.

That's not the problem of erotica, but of society. Negative effects of exposure to some pictures like that are questionable. Blame the parents, not the pic!

'Art' imitates life. In this case life in Japan involves to some degree treating women as second class objects, fit for humliation, objectification, bondage and forced actions. This is demonstrated in its erotic art as like I said it imitates life. The perverts take the pics and demand the pics. I think there are problems in exposing kids, especially boys already being raised to believe women are beneath them to imagery that shows women way beneath men, as nothing more than objects. We aren't just talking playboy nudes here. We are, in japan, potentially talking about images that involve women tied up, crying, looking shamed or humiliated or worse. Thats natural and ok too show too children? Ha.

[bossel]

Oh my, why so aggressive? Do I smell some personal issue there?

Depends on what porn you watch. Again I ask you, is watching simulated rape porn as a child ok? Is watching porn with violent imagery and storyline ok? Porn where women are ravaged by 20 plus men is ok for kids? At least better than Disney? Please tell me straight yes or no

How could I say a straight yes or no? It depends. Porn in general is not a problem, I'm not aware of any studies into particular varieties of porn. As long as kids watch this stuff under supervision, it shouldn't pose much of a problem, though. That's what parents are there for: telling their kids what's right or wrong.

You mean to say that exposing these forms of porn to kids would not have negative developmental effects? Boy thats rich.

Did I say so? Please quote that particular passage.

Sturm and drang, back this up or start talking sense.

You know the meaning of "IMO"? I'll look for some studies, but as I said it's just IMO, anyway.

I think there are problems in exposing kids, especially boys already being raised to believe women are beneath them to imagery that shows women way beneath men, as nothing more than objects. We aren't just talking playboy nudes here. We are, in japan, potentially talking about images that involve women tied up, crying, looking shamed or humiliated or worse. Thats natural and ok too show too children? Ha.

Misrepresenting me again? Nowhere did I say that humiliating pics are natural. That these pics as such have a negative effect on children is highly doubtful (maybe you could quote some studies to support your point?). You should not confuse cause & effect. The pics are only the effect, not the cause.


Addendum:
There don't seem to be any studies on WD stuff in particular, & only a few on cartoons in general. There is one interesting study (only on violence in cartoons) I stumbled across, though:
Kaj Björkqvist, Kirsti M.J. Lagerspetz (1985). Children's experience of three types of cartoon at two age levels. International Journal of Psychology, 20, 77-93.

"In many children's cartoons, the heroes, such as Woody Woodpecker and Donald Duck, behave extremely aggressively. Due to their identification with such heroes, children may be expected to attain a more permissive attitude towards aggressive behaviour. In that way, identification with aggressive film heroes can enhance subsequent aggressive behaviour due to a change in attitudes towards vioIence"

[Shooter452]

If they wanna be big world players with the world they take criticism from others, simple enough.

Since when does anyone's position in the "new world order" make them liable to meet certain requrements of "legal minimums?" And exactly where does the USA--standing so deeply in the dry and locked concrete of Sovereign Immunity as we are--get off expecting everyone to "get like us?" BTW, "like us" ain't so great, according to human rights watchdog groups like Amnesty International (hey, I don't like them either, but they at least are non-partisan, a claim that the Congress cannot make!).

I disagree. Japan has a very ingrained culutural belief in keeping system, even if broken because thats the 'way' something is done. Heaven and hell need to be moved to invoke change in Japanese public services and systems and the legal justice system, which is a majorly flawed beast, is one such example. Don't tell me a justice system which automatically prejudices against foreigners, which allows Judges to freely admit their judgements are made only to keep their 99% guilty record and which accused people have very little rights 'works'.
.

And this is the business of outsiders exactly how? In fact, I don't understand this conversation at all, Pook. At the very beginning I pointed out how I personally do not like the Nippon system of jurisprudence, and why--reasons not unlike your own, I might add--but that it is their system and if they want to change it they will. The fact that it is unlikely, difficult, whatever does not alter my statement one bit, nor does it explain your objection very well. When they think it is necessary, they will change it. If you have any problems with that, do not travel to Japan. If you must set foot on Japanese soil with your reservations I would recommend pre-paid legal services or counsellor insurance before you clear customs.

I concur with all of your objections. I saw them work up close and personal and I would not want to be accused of a crime in Japan because I know that I would never receive some/most/all of the legal protections to which I am accustomed. I know of at least two cases in 1979 when the court in Naha handed down decisions of guilt that were based solely on the facts that one defendant was Black and that both were gaijin. When the JAG representative offered evidence that suggested the plain old everyday innocence of both accused, it was ruled inadmissable because (a) the JAG officer had no standing in Japanese court and (b) the local prosecutor had not found that evidence themselves ("If we don't discover it, it don't exist!"). Those two kids--well, they ain't kids no longer, are they?--are probably still inside, if they are still alive.

And that means what? Nada. We were there as guests with rules of conduct plainly stated on our arrival in extensive indocrination classes "...welcome to Japan...hope you have a nice time...stay on base if you know what is good for you!" These two defendants went on liberty out in town and were accused of taking liberties they shouldn't. In Japan, that is end-of-story.

BTW, staying on base will not save you. I heard of a case where the JP's hauled some USAF master sergeant "downtown" and it took the assembled authority of the entire military legal community to convince the Japanese judge that he could not have been guilty since he had been over the China Sea in a C-141 at the time that the crime was committed! The judge finally relented and let yon MSgt go, but it had been easier to convince Pharaoh than it was to convince him!

So, getting back to my original statement, what actually sticks in your craw?