Radical difference between East and West regarding relationships and marriage

[Chirpy9]

Firstly, Maciamo thanks for starting this thread. It is quite interesting and then various opinions on this thread has made it more lively.

ShadowSpirit, you dont have to go anywhere, no izakaya or pubs/discs. The kind of description that you have given about yourself through your posts, many girls might already have fallen for you. Just check your Friend invitations, i guess you are loaded now with girsl asking you to be their friend..

Guys, one thing that have come forth, is that Japanese women care a lot about money. Why I am concerned about this fact more is because this one particularly is very different from India. As in, in India, once a girl gets married, she will stay with her husband and will defnitely not leave him on monetary ground, until and unless the money that is spent is because of husband's bad habits like gambling, etc. If for example, today economy is not that healthy and the husband has been fired, the wife will not leave him in these conditions. She will try to stay with him and try to put ends together in best possible ways.
Having said that, every country has its own customs and uniqueness.

[Pachipro]

There have been alot of generalizations made here in the recent posts this year about Japanese women that there are too many for me to quote and comment on, so I will direct my reply to Shadow Spirit based on my own experience.

Granted, what has been said in that many Japanese women today are looking at how much money a man has is true to an extent it is not indicative of the entire culture as you have probably surmised by now.

You will be moving to Aomori Prefecture to live and work and it will not be even close to what you would experience had you chosen to live in Tokyo, Yokohama, or Osaka or Kyoto in that Aomori is more country and thus, to an extent, more traditional and not as "international" as the cities I mentioned above and their surrounding areas. Therefore, what jt9258 said may be closer to the truth, but not necessarily so.

As with any culture you will find various types of women in Japan. Some will be traditional in that they want to be a housewife and raise children after marriage, while others may prefer to work after marriage and maybe so even after they have children even though it is still frowned upon in Japan. Some will be independent and may not want to have children. Some may even decide to break up with you because their family disagrees with their daughter dating a foreigner even though she is madly in love with you as happened to me.

The key point is to know what you want and to not to settle for less until you do find what you are looking for or you just may end up regretting it in the long run. Also, do not take things too seriously. Just be yourself, know what you want, and you will find what you are looking for.

I have been married to the same Japanese woman for almost 21 years now and we have been together almost 28 years. However, it is not my first marriage. I made the foolish mistake of marrying one of the first women I met in Japan and the marriage only lasted for 2 1/2 years due to immaturity and lust on my part. I was just a dumb 21 year old at the time. Granted, she was a great woman/wife and it was an amiacable divorce, but I acted with the "small head" and the not the big head if you get my drift. I will not go into details, but suffice it to say, our goals were not the same. Thankfully there were no children.

After that I vowed never to marry again, if ever, until I met someone I was completely compatable with in all aspects and I would not compromise. After four years and many dates with many women, I found what I was looking for even though I was not even looking for it at the time!

It was difficult in the beginning with her father and she being an only child and it took 7 years for him to come around. But come around he did and we became the best of friends.

In my experience Japanese women (like many women elsewhere) are as different as snowflakes in that almost no two are alike. You will have your gold diggers and those who care not how much money you make. You will have your submissives and your dominants and you will have your slobs and your clean freaks. Some will know how to cook and others will not. Some will enjoy your hobbies, others will not. Some will be the best sex you've ever had (even after marriage) while others will be rag dolls and care not for sex after a while. Some will be jealous and insecure, while others will give you all the freedom you desire.

Also, there are other things to take into consideration like the culture and how open she may be to leaving her country and family and will she desire to return home when her parents are aging and if so, are you willing to follow her? That's a question you must answer before desiring to settle down. In my own case, I know I will be returning to Japan shortly to care for my aging mother-in-law as my wife is an only child and I promised my father-in-law before he passed away that we would care for her. That's a given and I knew it from the start. You must ask yourself if you would be willing to live out your life in Japan if it came to that and have a definite answer.

Also, your knowledge of the Japanese language and her yours plays a vital factor in how well she will adapt to life in a foreign country in that she may desire to work if you move back to the US or you decide to remain in Japan. That you must decide before you marry. If you cannot answer it or think that you can't, then don't do it.

A marriage to a Japanese woman is not so difficult as some make it out to be providing one knows the culture and language of the person he/she is marrying. I cannot stress that enough. Sure there will always be those underlying cultural differences, but they are not that significant if both fully understand where the other person is coming from.

Also, as a foreigner in Japan, especially in an out of the way place like Aomori, you will have more than your fair share of women wanting to meet you just because you are a foreigner and an oddity. You may even feel like a celebrity at times. Some may even want to date you as it is considered cool and chic to have a foreign "boy toy" accessory and have no desire to ever settle down with you although they may give that impression. Then they will drop you before you ever knew what hit you and you will be saying, "WTF?"

I had my best experiences in meeting Japanese women in places where foreigners did not frequent in that I knew the language, was comfortable, and I was not on the prowl. It was often they who made the first move in that they wanted to meet a person who knew the language and culture and know more about a foreigner who was living in Japan.

In the end, it has been my experience that Japanese women appreciate the way a foreigner treats them in the long run in that they are treated as an equal and fairly as has been said to me on more than one occassion. Many a Japanese women have mentioned that they despise the way they are treated by Japanese men in the long run.

Japan can be a wonderful experience if you study the language and culture and go with the flow.

As I said above, the point is knowing what you want and not settling for less. Sound impossible? Not really as I thought it was also. Enjoy your time in Japan, don't take it too seriously when it comes to meeting women, and just go with the flow. It will make your time there that more worthwhile. I wish you the best.

[ShadowSpirit]

Chirpy9: Your opinion is most welcome. This thread has been lacking a feminine touch for far too long. The sentiments you extend to me are sweet, but I confess that it is not as you have presumed. I guess there just aren't many women on this site who are reading my posts yet.

This vote of confidence you place on me is refreshing. I hope this does end up being the popular opinion to the women I meet in Japan. I consider myself a handsome guy and established. Yet I hold things like that at face value when it comes to matters of the heart. I suppose being raised by just my mother shows in my sentimental mentality. I've learned to look beneath the surface and desire to be judged on those same principles. This is a fortune that I think shines well when it comes to writing letters on the internet, but this side of me might not be so obvious if you saw me in my club attire with a drink in hand and a frat boy smile.

I do encourage you to continue contributing to this thread whether it be in extended opinions or questions.

Pachipro: My hat off to you kind sir. You have definitely put a lot of my fears to rest on that post. You broke down the wall I was having stacked on me in regards to Japanese women. Answering the question I had reworded a hundred times over. That being, I know what to expect of the traditional Japanese woman, but had been wanting to know if it was possible that woman in that culture break the mold. You answered that gloriously for me. That yes, there are. Sure, it might be harder to find in some areas as opposed to others and I'm willing to accept that. Yet having been a man who grew up and was confined to North America, I am oblivious to the mindset of cultures outside of America. Afterall, I grew up in California, the most diverse part of the melting pot of America. Yet despite this, I still encounter man Californians whom harbor prejudice and practice discrimination. So if people can develop this mindset when in a culturally expressive society, then I can only imagine what to expect of women from a society that stifles the woman's creativity, defines her role in life, and pressures her to those ideas. It just made me wonder if those women longed for something beyond that and would recognize it when it came to light. I wanted to believe this to be true, but I had definitely encountered a lot of antagonizing viewpoints that cloaked any light in my thinking.

Though Pachipro has contributed to the optimism I received from the likes of Chidoriashi. For that, I am greatfully thankful to you. Granted, I am not getting my hopes too high on this nor am I expecting to find what I'm looking for as a result. I just like knowing that it isn't impossible. That there are women in Japan who don't fall into the norm regardless of how scrutinized they may be for it. If such women exist, I can now just hope I will run into one. I'm not woman hunting per se. I just didn't want to be living in a region that couldn't afford any possibility (no matter how slim) of me finding a good woman to build a relationship with.

You brought up a good point about some women wanting a gaijin boy toy. I have read about that as well and will try to be mindful of the woman's intentions. I served a tour in Hawaii and was surrounded with women of that same mindset. It made being in Hawaii a depressing place for me. Great if you're a playboy, but not so much if you're a caucasian military man looking to settle down.

My thanks goes to jt9258 as well. For he has done a great job to caution me of what I could land myself into if I'm not careful in my tracks. I will take that caution to heart and not let a pretty face and timid actions be selling factors for me to jump into a relationship over.

[-ShiroUsagi-]

I am very very new here so please so I apologise for anything that may come off as too stand-offish and/or offensive lol.
Im just wondering though since it looks like the post has turned more into about japanese women.. what about japanese men?
example-
It should be remembered that when you marry a Japanese women, in many cases the parents need to know that you can provide for there daughter, the spoken word in these cases is not enough, which means they may very well need to see that you can be a good provider, and worthy of there respect, actions speak louder than words.-
Im sorry I forgot who said this but I just thought it was interesting! So if the parents and the daughter are question whether the potential husband can provide, my question is what is it like vice versa?
As well I wanted to add... that ShadowSpirit even though you sound like a decent fellow, dont get me wrong but I dont know about your expectations.. its like you really are putting the country and the women on pedestals, as well as yourself. Like you are the man who's in search of his true love and will liberate her from her woes.. lol I know I havent been to Japan so maybe I shouldnt be saying this. Ah well you will be immersed in their culture soon enough, but as Pachipiro said go with the flow, be yourself but dont force yourself..and as many have said here, just keep an open mind and expect the unexpected.
I wish you luck!
p.s. for anyone that can help a silly girl, to directly quote someone on this blog how is that done?(without typing it all myself that is lol)

[ShadowSpirit]

As well I wanted to add... that ShadowSpirit even though you sound like a decent fellow, dont get me wrong but I dont know about your expectations.. its like you really are putting the country and the women on pedestals, as well as yourself. Like you are the man who's in search of his true love and will liberate her from her woes..

Ack! What is all this talking of putting Japan and myself on a pedestal? I certainly didn't want to give that impression and hopefully I can put this idea to rest right now...
ShiroUsagi: I'm just trying hard to understand the culture. I will be spending quite a few years in the region and don't want to walk in without any knowledge of the culture, people, and as my focus portrays: the women. If I can be lucky enough to meet a woman that I will get along well with to possibly marry, and if she happens to be Japanese, I want to understand what kind of upbringing she has had. I just thought it was the responsible thing to do and that this post was a good place to gather some of that knowledge. Which I am glad that I asked, cause it has given me the opportunity to learn a lot and meet the acquaintance of great people on this forum.
As for putting myself on a pedestal. Are you referring to me boasting about my financial stability? I didn't say that to be arrogant. I was trying to convey a point to help get the best advice that I can. I didn't want it to sound like I can't take care of a woman. I wanted it known that I can, but that I didn't want to be judged on that alone. I guess there is no easy way to play out that scenario without sounding a bit pompous about it. With all said and done, I am going to be myself while in Japan. I just don't want my potential friends or mate to say. "You don't understand what it is like here." If I can avoid having that card played on me, it would be nice. Afterall, cultural barriers are something I take seriously. I feel the least I can do is show my respect by trying to learn as much as I can. It isn't like I'm going to deny who I am or where I came from. I would gladly share that part of my personality with anybody willing to learn.
I guess I could keep talking this subject to death and still give misleading impressions. I don't know if it is the words I choose to use, how much time I have spent writing, or something else. Yet I assure that I am not meaning to put anything on a pedestal. Least of all myself.
Now, for the discussion of Japanese men. I wish I had some info to give you on that subject. Yet as you can see, I didn't even know much about Japanese women. I'm going to know even less about the males. I do hope Japanese guys like having American friends though.
Well, so that I'm not entirely useless to you. The way to quote someone. There are options on the lower-right corner of each person's post that says 'quote.' If you use it, it should take you to the standard reply window with the text of that person already placed in as a quote. I hope this helps.

[jt9258]

what about japanese men?

Interesting question! Japanese men are looking for a mother! they are looking for a women who will make a good mother for his children, and to replace his mother, because most Japanese men cannot look after themselves, the relationship they have will be more of a business relationship, in which they live there lives fullfilling there own roles to raise the children, this means that the Japanese man will not view his wife, as an attractive women after child birth, he will only see her as being a mother, so would not consider an intimate loving relationship with her.

This is why many foreigners have problems when being married to a Japanese partner, they both have different expectations of the relationship/marriage, the Japanese partner will expect their partner to act, and behave in a certain way, the concept that a western partner could act, or behave differently than a Japanese partner is hard for them to understand, or even accept. So while the foreign partner is looking at sharing an intimate loving relationship with their Japanese marriage partner, the Japanese partner is not.

When listening to Japanese men of most ages, I found that husbands really do not have any interest in their wives after children, and they regard it strange when a foreigner want's an intimate relationship with there wife, after marriage, and children.
.
Today I was lucky enough to raise these questions with a Japanese man, who is married, and has children, and I can say that he showed nothing but disgust, at the thought of having an intimate relationship with his wife.

Im sorry I forgot who said this but I just thought it was interesting! So if the parents and the daughter are question whether the potential husband can provide, my question is what is it like vice versa?

I think I wrote that!

A Japanese man is only expecting his wife to be a mother to him, and his children, though with his work schedule, and social life after work, his wife, and children will not see that much of him, and in many cases will only view him as a nuisance when he is at home, so the only one to really suffer if the wife does not fullfill her role as house wife, will be herself, and the children, though it should be remembered, that most divorces here are started by the women.

p.s. for anyone that can help a silly girl, to directly quote someone on this blog how is that done?(without typing it all myself that is lol)

Copy and Paste, and use the quote button in bottom right of post.

[becki_kanou]

Interesting question! Japanese men are looking for a mother! they are looking for a women who will make a good mother for his children, and to replace his mother, because most Japanese men cannot look after themselves, the relationship they have will be more of a business relationship, in which they live there lives fullfilling there own roles to raise the children, this means that the Japanese man will not view his wife, as an attractive women after child birth, he will only see her as being a mother, so would not consider an intimate loving relationship with her.

This is why many foreigners have problems when being married to a Japanese partner, they both have different expectations of the relationship/marriage, the Japanese partner will expect their partner to act, and behave in a certain way, the concept that a western partner could act, or behave differently than a Japanese partner is hard for them to understand, or even accept. So while the foreign partner is looking at sharing an intimate loving relationship with their Japanese marriage partner, the Japanese partner is not.

When listening to Japanese men of most ages, I found that husbands really do not have any interest in their wives after children, and they regard it strange when a foreigner want's an intimate relationship with there wife, after marriage, and children.
.
A Japanese man is only expecting his wife to be a mother to him, and his children, though with his work schedule, and social life after work, his wife, and children will not see that much of him, and in many cases will only view him as a nuisance when he is at home, so the only one to really suffer if the wife does not fullfill her role as house wife, will be herself, and the children, though it should be remembered, that most divorces here are started by the women.

You certainly take a pessimistic view of the situation. While many of the things you said may very well be true for many people of the older generation who view their relationship as more of a business one than a romantic one, it's not true for all of them. I know many older couples (50s and 60s) who are quite good friends, love to spend time with each other, and have very loving relationships.

For the younger generation I don't think it's really that true at all. All of my married friends in my age range (20s-late 30s) are love matches and they interact together much the same way that Western couples do, laughing and joking together, doing little romantic things together, regardless of whether they have kids or not. It's true that things are still more old-fashioned at home with the wife mostly staying home and raising the kids and the husband working a lot, but that doesn't mean that they don't have a loving relationship.

In fact I'm married to a Japanese man myself and he is the sweetest, most romantic, funniest guy I've met of any nationality (that's why I married him!) He does work long hours, but when he's home we spend our time together enjoying each other's company, going out together, walking the dog together etc.

It's been said before, but people are people regardless of their race or nationality and every single one is different. There may be trends or patterns within a culture, but not everyone is going to fit into that pattern.

[ShadowSpirit]

It's been said before, but people are people regardless of their race or nationality and every single one is different. There may be trends or patterns within a culture, but not everyone is going to fit into that pattern.

Very well stated.

[kusojiji]

Interesting question! Japanese men are looking for a mother! they are looking for a women who will make a good mother for his children, and to replace his mother, because most Japanese men cannot look after themselves, the relationship they have will be more of a business relationship, in which they live there lives fullfilling there own roles to raise the children, this means that the Japanese man will not view his wife, as an attractive women after child birth, he will only see her as being a mother, so would not consider an intimate loving relationship with her.

This is why many foreigners have problems when being married to a Japanese partner, they both have different expectations of the relationship/marriage, the Japanese partner will expect their partner to act, and behave in a certain way, the concept that a western partner could act, or behave differently than a Japanese partner is hard for them to understand, or even accept. So while the foreign partner is looking at sharing an intimate loving relationship with their Japanese marriage partner, the Japanese partner is not.

When listening to Japanese men of most ages, I found that husbands really do not have any interest in their wives after children, and they regard it strange when a foreigner want's an intimate relationship with there wife, after marriage, and children.
.
Today I was lucky enough to raise these questions with a Japanese man, who is married, and has children, and I can say that he showed nothing but disgust, at the thought of having an intimate relationship with his wife.



I think I wrote that!

A Japanese man is only expecting his wife to be a mother to him, and his children, though with his work schedule, and social life after work, his wife, and children will not see that much of him, and in many cases will only view him as a nuisance when he is at home, so the only one to really suffer if the wife does not fullfill her role as house wife, will be herself, and the children, though it should be remembered, that most divorces here are started by the women.

Oh brother...

Categorical statements and sweeping generalizations are rarely conducive to serious, constructive discussions.