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View Poll Results: Should Japan abandon the "16-rays rising sun flag" ?

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  • Yes, and the flag should be officially banned in public places too, as was the Nazi flag in Germany

    29 22.66%
  • Yes, it is the equivalent of the Nazi swastika flag and is unacceptable in today's world

    17 13.28%
  • Yes, because it reminds Japan's neighbours of its past atrocities

    14 10.94%
  • Probably. It would be so easy to choose another naval ensign, even the "hinomaru" flag.

    8 6.25%
  • No, there is no valid reason to change Japan's naval flag.

    43 33.59%
  • No, it is a cultural symbol of Japan('s military)

    25 19.53%
  • No it stands for Japan's eternal Empire of the Rising Sun. Banzai !

    24 18.75%
  • No idea

    9 7.03%
  • Don't give a damn about the Japanese flags

    10 7.81%
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Thread: Should Japan abandon the "16-rays rising sun flag" ?

  1. #176
    Back in town JerseyBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astroboy View Post
    The Japanese 16-rays rising sun flag in Italy.

    Some see it as a fashionable design?
    It could be a sinking sun, depending on the perspective.

  2. #177
    Regular Member Astroboy's Avatar
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    New design for the rising sun flag.

    at F1 Suzuka Grand Prix in 2006.
    Last edited by Astroboy; Nov 23, 2008 at 19:29. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    Life is beach, not B**ch.

  3. #178
    Regular Member Astroboy's Avatar
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    Another fashionable rising sun flag....



    A Chinese model wearing the Japanese 16-rays rising sun flag. I envy the flag.

  4. #179
    Regular Member Astroboy's Avatar
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    And Somebody made this .... at http://patdollard.com/2008/05/audacity-or-obamination/



    Maybe Obama fits with it as he must be the rising sun in the country.

  5. #180
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    interesting topic for sure. Should they abandon and forget the lesson their grandfathers earned and learned by taking us on in WWII by burying that flag design?

    Hell NO!

    let them remember the lesson learned by their grandpapas.

    If they bury that flag and massive defeat associated with it...the US should outlaw the stars and bars as well at the same time.

    Fly that flag as a reminder forever I say.

    Let it NEVER be forgotten.


    The rising sun will set again if it ever turns on it's american friends and benefactors again in cold blood too.

    It is not wise to try to eat the hand that feeds and nutures you imo.

    Give thanks and blessing instead and strive to repay somehow the debt you owe them, so that someday you may be able to look them in square in the eye as an equal, instead of bowing to them as an superior who bailed ya out and showed you mercy when you did not deserve it.

    That is what I would do.

  6. #181
    Regular Member Astroboy's Avatar
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    I personally believe that Tibetan's flag has some similarity with the Japanese rising sun flag.



  7. #182
    Curmudgeon Hermit Crab's Avatar
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    # Across the dark blue sky six red bands spread representing the original ancestors of the Tibetan people: the six tribes called Se, Mu, Dong, Tong, Dru and Ra which in turn gave the [twelve] descendants. The combination of six red bands (for the tribes) and six dark blue bands for the sky represents the incessant enactment of the virtuous deeds of protection of the spiritual teachings and secular life by the black and red guardian protector deities with which Tibet has had connection for a very long time.
    # At the tip of the snow mountain, the sun with its rays brilliantly shining in all directions represents the equal enjoyment of freedom, spiritual and material happiness and prosperity by all beings in the land of Tibet.
    via Wikipedia

    How does this resemble the flag of the Japanese Imperial Army (1870-1945), the Japanese Imperial Navy (1889-1945), and currently the Japanese Maritime Self-defense Forces?

  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermit Crab View Post
    via Wikipedia
    How does this resemble the flag of the Japanese Imperial Army (1870-1945), the Japanese Imperial Navy (1889-1945), and currently the Japanese Maritime Self-defense Forces?
    It would be very cruel to try to bury and erase the Japanese people's history, for the losses, mistakes and miscalculations of their leaders and Emperor. Mistakes made because Japan was desperate to colonize, feed, and find more land and resources for it's overcrowded population...AS they seen and watched England, France, Spain, and the Dutch do when they faced the same problem!
    I understand their plight that still plagues that nation today, probably even worse now than it was in the 30's before they started making their moves to take a little of China. Japan HAS to be allowed to grow...but they cannot get the land and resources they need without taking someone else's.
    That is the number one biggest hurdle facing Japan today, one that will need to be addressed again by the entire earth in the VERY near future.
    Lets just hope they don't fly the Rising Sun again to solve the problem.
    That would be VERY bad for everyone...as they now have an out of this world industrial capacity, a loyal, brave, extremely intelligent and deperate people who stick together, and the much wisdom learned from their mistakes and failures in II.
    I would much rather they just swindle me out of my land and resources, than ever go military again.
    The next time Japan goes military, nobody will see the attack coming until it is already over and they have conquered the entire earth....then it will be too late to try to resist. Think about that.
    I hope and pray the Rising Sun remains Japan's history.

  9. #184
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    And adding to that...

    No offense to anyone but, If I were Akihito and had his resources, and I realized that I would not be able to swindle everyone on earth to get the land and resources we needed, and HAD to go military again to secure our assets...

    You wouldn't even know we went military, until the closest surviving person to your god was signing the unconditional surrender paperwork in front of the entire earth.

    This is all going to be in my debut, soon to be released, Tom Clancy type military thriller.

    Watch for it at your local bookstore....but don't try to get me to to give away who is is going to win WWIII in it....(That will remain MOST SECRET)

    You will have to buy my book for that.

    And absolutely ALL the profits will be donated and put toward paying off my beloved nation's national debt...since we obviously are highly into handouts and charity these days so much.

    I just want to be able to look Akihito square in the eye again someday...that will be plenty of payment enough for me. I can't do that when we owe him so much money.
    Last edited by hogdriver; Dec 7, 2008 at 06:40. Reason: Further thought.

  10. #185
    Regular Member Drew-san's Avatar
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    Well that couldn't and won't happen, but I do think Japan needs to buy some land from another nation.

  11. #186
    No rain in Seattle! grapefruit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogdriver View Post
    I understand their plight that still plagues that nation today, probably even worse now than it was in the 30's before they started making their moves to take a little of China. Japan HAS to be allowed to grow...but they cannot get the land and resources they need without taking someone else's.
    That is the number one biggest hurdle facing Japan today, one that will need to be addressed again by the entire earth in the VERY near future.
    I don't think land is an issue anymore. The whole population is decreasing. What they need is children, who contribute to maintaining labor forces. (sorry this was off-topic).

  12. #187
    Regular Member Astroboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogdriver View Post
    And adding to that...
    No offense to anyone but, If I were Akihito and had his resources, and I realized that I would not be able to swindle everyone on earth to get the land and resources we needed, and HAD to go military again to secure our assets...
    You wouldn't even know we went military, until the closest surviving person to your god was signing the unconditional surrender paperwork in front of the entire earth.
    This is all going to be in my debut, soon to be released, Tom Clancy type military thriller.
    Watch for it at your local bookstore....but don't try to get me to to give away who is is going to win WWIII in it....(That will remain MOST SECRET)
    You will have to buy my book for that.
    And absolutely ALL the profits will be donated and put toward paying off my beloved nation's national debt...since we obviously are highly into handouts and charity these days so much.
    I just want to be able to look Akihito square in the eye again someday...that will be plenty of payment enough for me. I can't do that when we owe him so much money.
    Post-war histroy clearly indicates ..... IF Imperial Japan could have established the Great East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere,

    1. Korean did not need to kill each other, and Noth Korean do not need to starve to death today, either.
    2. Chinese did not need to go civil war, and not suffer from Cultural Revolution nor tyranny, either.
    3. Almost all Chinese & Korean must have been enjoying better life than today.

    History is always IRONY, isn't it?

  13. #188
    Back in town JerseyBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astroboy View Post
    Post-war histroy clearly indicates ..... IF Imperial Japan could have established the Great East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere,
    1. Korean did not need to kill each other, and Noth Korean do not need to starve to death today, either.
    2. Chinese did not need to go civil war, and not suffer from Cultural Revolution nor tyranny, either.
    3. Almost all Chinese & Korean must have been enjoying better life than today.
    History is always IRONY, isn't it?
    No history will indicate what could have happened. Even though I have a Japanese passport, I am glad Japan lost the WW2. (as I prefer the Western/North American cultures better --- of course, not to mention the atrocities the Japanese Imperial Army could have inflicted under the pretense of that co-prosperity sphere non-sense.

  14. #189
    Regular Member Astroboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyBoy View Post
    No history will indicate what could have happened. Even though I have a Japanese passport, I am glad Japan lost the WW2. (as I prefer the Western/North American cultures better --- of course, not to mention the atrocities the Japanese Imperial Army could have inflicted under the pretense of that co-prosperity sphere non-sense.
    But I sometimes really think ... history is irony.
    Because USA attained victory over Japan, regardless of their wish, USA had to stay in Asia and get involved with Asian region. And then it experienced Vietnamese war, Korean war, and other conflicts in the region. Maybe they will say that it was a part of Cold War, but in my perspective, US strength had been deteriorated in accordance with those series of involvement in Asia.
    Meanwhile, Japan could have continued to keep distance from those troubles, thanking to Article 9, which USA wanted to put into Japanese constitution.
    Eventually Article 9 helps us keep distance from danger but let us focus on economy.
    IF Japan established the Great East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere, Japan must have kept fighting today..... like USA....
    History is irony, indeed.

  15. #190
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    What is so wrong with a Rising Sun anyway?

    Sure beats a setting one imo.

    Further, Japan has already bought alot of land and resources from other nations, and has been doing so for quite some time now.

    HD

  16. #191
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    MHO

    This argument is very similar to the national flag argument that has long been discussed since the end of WW2 in Japan. Of course the difference is that this argument is about naval flag, but there is only a minor difference between national flag and naval flag especially since both are portrayal of Rising Sun anyway.

    From what I skimmed so far, the misunderstandings or dissidents seems to come from the definition of "Imperialism". You can call territorial
    expansion since acquisition of Taiwan(or Okinawa, if you wanna go extreme) "imperialism", and surely they were, but Japanese doesn't necessarily consider these as "atrocities" that we had commited.

    So, I don't agree that the 16 rays rising sun only symbolizes japanese imperialsm.
    It "also" symbolizes historic triumph of Combined fleet over Baltic fleet, and many other sacrifices that sailors dedicated to the country. Thus it conveys very emotional attachment from service men.

    I see many people in this thread say that the naval flag is "trivial thing" and Japanese relation with Asia should be put more weights, but you know in your country how the war veterans and military officials respect their symbols and rituals. I don't see why it become "OK" to deprive them of those things if it's a trivial matter except for the military themselves, and possibly some other foreigners, who most likely are not the direct victims but more likely the youngsters susceptible to their own nationalism.


    >2. Chinese did not need to go civil war, and not suffer from Cultural Revolution nor tyranny, either.
    I'm completely clueless of where this comes from. Chinese were in civil war before the Empire invaded the mainland.
    It is true that Chinese people would had not been suffered from Cultural Revolution without Japanese invasion, but same thing is true
    if Allied Nations hadn't supported the Nationalists. And the reign of Nationalists were cruel too like Communists. Ask Taiwanese.

    Those who bring up the resemblance to Nazi Swastika, check out the German Airforce's roundel(marking on airplanes).

  17. #192
    Regular Member Drew-san's Avatar
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    So, I don't agree that the 16 rays rising sun only symbolizes japanese imperialsm.
    It "also" symbolizes historic triumph of Combined fleet over Baltic fleet, and many other sacrifices that sailors dedicated to the country. Thus it conveys very emotional attachment from service men.
    Agreed.

  18. #193
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    To me, it just means an even more shining rising sun.
    And to me, that rising sun symbolizes a god which I worship and adore.

    So, no.
    By the way, I love the Nazi flag as well. And am glad I could wear it in Japan legally.

  19. #194
    もちもちした食感 ASHIKAGA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ukonkivi View Post
    To me, it just means an even more shining rising sun.
    And to me, that rising sun symbolizes a god which I worship and adore.

    So, no.
    By the way, I love the Nazi flag as well. And am glad I could wear it in Japan legally.
    Good for you.

    OK, NEEEEEEXT!!!!
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  20. #195
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    16 rays of the Rising Sun, extremely historic!

    I am very often, validly criticized for my “over the top” theories, and so be it!
    But the 16-pointed Japanese flag is so ancient, so historic, my vote is emphatically, do not let it go!

    Too much of all of our ancestries are thrown away for one feeble reason or another.

    I say the 16-pointed star represented at one time, the Goddess Ishtar, whose sacred numbers included 15 and 16. More modern versions of Ishtar were the evolved “Venus” whose sacred number was 5.

    http://ksumail.kennesaw.edu/~shagin/WLGilgameshRG.html
    “Ishtar — the goddess of love, protection, and war; she is armed with a quiver and a bow, and rides a lion
    Symbol: an 8- or 16-pointed star; Venus and Sirius
    Sacred Number: 15"

    Venus/Ishtar of course rises before sunrise, with the rising sun, then escorts the sun at sunset, into the night. Chee Pan, Chipango, Shippan, Japan... Origin of the Spirits, Land where the sun first rises, Land of the Rising Sun!

    If you play the ancient sacred mathematics games, the sacred number 16 was the sum total of the prime numbers 1, 3,5, and 7, which for Pythagoras and others carried much more meaning in those days, when mathematics was pure Godliness.

    Our New Mexico flag is a derivation, I believe, of this 16 rays of light.




    Of course, the purists of the world can now scream...”But you have no proof”, and I concede, dispatch me now, please!

    Save the rising sun. It is my heritage too!

    Administrative question... which image hosting services are the other posters using? It is better than mine.

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    The rising sun flag (below) is not the same as the sun disc flag (hinomaru). It was used by the Japanese Navy and Army during Japan's invasion and occupation of Asia between 1895 and 1945, and is still used as the official naval flag of Japan (including the SDF). It is one of the most powerful symbol of the 20-30 million deaths that Japan caused around Asia during this period. In other words it is the equivalent of the Nazi swasitka flag. However, it would be unthinkable for Germany to use the Nazi flag nowadays, even as a naval ensign.

    Here is an explanation from Wikipedia's article on Japanese nationalism :
    Kyokujitsu-ki(the sun-with rays-flag) or "Japanese war banner". It was the ensign of the Imperial Japanese Navy; and also, one of best-known Japanese nationalist symbols from the First Chinese-Japanese War (1894-95) to the Pacific War (1941-45). This flag was sometimes also used by the Imperial Japanese Army on land, and is now employed by Japanese right-nationalist groups as well as the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Forces.
    Should Japan continue to use the Rising Sun flag without fearing to cause anger in other Asian countries ? Would a modern, civilised and humanitarian country use a flag that reminds of its own atrocities during WWII ?
    Why not bring Japan to the Commonwealth and add the Union Jack on the corner of its flag! I wonder better yet, how many Japanese people would appreciate the honour of joing up with the United Kingdom? I wonder how many percent of the Japanese would accept? This would enable to be a member of the EU. (And they won't have to so vulnerable to US interests!) Every developed nation in the world is either in either the EU, NAFTA, or NATO, except Japan. As a developed nation, they should be allowed to join up in one of these major organizations.

  22. #197
    LovePeaceHappiness
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    Symbolism, number 16

    More on the 16 rays of the sun, and Venus, this time from the book...

    Voyages of the Pyramid Builders, pages 73, 74, 75... Dr. Robert M. Schoch and Robert Aquinas McNally...

    "Some of the pyramid temples of the Maya are oriented to the planet Venus, which in their mythology was identifiedwith the great god Quetzalcoatl. In their complex way of reckoning time, the Maya began their calendar with the "birth" of Venus, an event they dated in modern terms to approximately August 12, 3114. The House of the Governor of Uxmal is one of a number of Mayan monuments that show an alignment to Venus. An observer standing in one of the doorways at dawn would have seen Venus rise as the morning star above the top of a solitary mound about three and a half miles away as the planet reached its southerly extreme in A.D. 750. Temple I at Tikal marks a point in the sky where Venus periodically aligns with Jupiter.

    Venus, which in Mesopotamia was the heavenly form of the love goddess known as Ishtar, Aphrodite, and Inanna, mayh have played a central role in the retainer-burial rituals of Ur. When Sir Charles Leonard Wooley excavated the royal tombs, he wondered why they numbered 16 over a period of approximately 150 years represented by Dynasty 1 of Ur. The number 16 has a certain aesthetic precision to it, as the square of a square (2x2x2, or 4x4 =16).

    Over a 128 year period, the sun, the moon, and the planet Venus come into conjunction 16 times at regular intervals. Possibly every time this happened, the Sumerians changed Kings."

    **********
    My own note, that Venus transcends across the face of the Sun every 124 years, as if "cutting its head off", the last visible time was 2004.

    More on this as I find them....

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