Have you encountered discrimination or prejudices in Japan ?

[Reyter]

Are you suggesting we take up arms against the status quo because you were asked for ID? Are you really that delusional?

LOL, that is funny! Are you serious or having fun with me? If English is your first language I can only presume it is the latter. Capitalist economy dikatates the need for exapanding markets, resources and general "spheres of influence". If Japan is weak and empty one of its big neighbours will move in and take Japan. Japan will be weak and empty unless there is a lot more immigration. As the numbers of immigrants increases relative to the native population, they will demand more rights and pretty soon the same rights as native people.

How many times do you need to repeat the same negative story you told in your other thread. Did it actually surprise you that you evoked such a reaction?

I'm pretty sure you've beaten your story into the ground, so why continue to repeat the same things over and over? I think you need to learn how to better pick your battles, both on the subjects you argue and when you want to openly defy the police who may or may not be racist, but in the end ARE just doing their job.

LOL, you are funny. I have been "beaten to the groud"? How so? Thats what I keep saying! Are you stupid??? Part of their job description isnt to ignore the law in order to harrass people who have different color skin simply becasue they have different color skin.

If you're really so attached to your interpretation of the law, maybe you should try to get the law refined so it is more clear on this point instead of endlessly railing against the individual officers, especially to a bunch of people that think your interpretation is incorrect.

I did confirm my interpretation wioth a very high ranking female policewomen. I mean, she works for the police isnt just a dopey s##tkicker cruising around trying to get in the face of people who have different color skin while mafia criminals run rampant.

Its really beside the point. I have said in my original post and several times since, to just publicly and slowly inspect their I.D. first is enough if you are in a hurry..... or just cant stand the stench of the kind of police who cruise around trying to cause trouble for different color skinned people.

You user name is really interesting. You are aware that the term "gaijin" is primarily a deragatory term given to foreigners. Are you really a ”外国人”？ If so, do you suffer from some kind of bizzare form of the Stockholm syndrome? There is probably another, more specific term for it but I am not a psychologist. I dont know the term.

BTW; I will continue to repeat the same message because I want all foreigners to know about this because I know how many have complined of harrassment by the police and I know many of them have left Japan with a very bad impression. They should know that it isnt Japan or Japanese society in general, it is merely some lawless, racist police who want people to know, or think, how "powerful" and "important" they are. However in the end, they are merely annoying little fascists who should be in the gulag!

[FrustratedDave]

God have mercy! You people are really fanatical, arent you? You just hate it so much that foreigners would have any rights in Japan, dont you? Once again, the only appropriate way to describe this is fascistic.

Are you stupid???

[Reyter]

some stupid graphics

LOL you created a little image just for me???? Funny! I have made such an impression on you? You really have a lot of free time, dont you?

[FrustratedDave]

LOL you created a little image just for me???? Funny! I have made such an impression on you? You really have a lot of free time, dont you?

Don't quote me and re-write it to how you want. And yes I do have free time , b/c it is 4 day long weekend, did you forget that Jack?

Thanks for that. I also dont want to it to decend into irrelevant babble. At least not more so than it already has. I was planning on taking a break and then coming back in a week or so becasue i want all foreigners to know their rights and not be harassed by police due to the color of their skin. Many or most of these others absolutely dont want that and therefore wont stop with the aformentioned babble. If they continue when I come back is there any chance of simply removing the messages?

Unfortunately it is you that has decended into irrelevant babble a long, long time ago and I guess someone of your statue would have a hard time recognising that. I think removing you will be the the quickest and most painless in this situation. Don't you think it is strange that 99% of people are disagreeing with you? Why are you the only one who is agreeing with you? You are indeed a sad individual...

[Pachipro]

Do not feed the trolls.

I can't help myself Glenski and I know your views on Debito and what he is trying to do. Although we have our differences, I respect your views, but must post my opinion here.

Here again we have another troll and another uninformed, inexperienced wannabe "Debito disciple" looking to impose their racist views on other foreigners that the Japanese police are racist and discriminatory because they ask for ID. Just by using the word "pig" for the police shows his racist views. Is he from the 70's or what?

If he had done a simple search he would see that this subject, as well as Debito, has been covered time and time again and is just looking to stir up trouble or he is young, dumb, and inexperienced. His profile says he lives in Japan, but it also says he has never been to Japan. One would think that a person wishing to state such incendiary views would at least know how to fill out a simple profile.

One must remember, as others have stated above, the Japanese police have every right to ask you for your ID whenever they feel like it and for whatever reason regardless of what the law states. If you don't like it or find it offensive and discriminatory, leave already! You are not in your home country anymore so don't expect the same rights.

He has been asked for his ID three times. Big f--king deal! There are others here who have been asked more than 10 times. Some have a problem with it and others don't. Just because one does not have a problem with it does not make them weak IMO. What's the problem? You are in a foreign country for gosh sakes and you stand out like a sore thumb. Why not save yourself a lot of hassle and just show it to them? What are you trying to prove? That you have rights and are better than the Japanese because you are a foreigner and that you should not be asked for your ID to prove you are in the country legally?

You are a foreigner a "gaijin" a "gaikokujin" and if you can't stand the heat get the hell out of the kitchen. If you are going to live in Japan you better get used to it or you will end up like the countless of other foreigners I have known who live in a country they despise and hate, but have no where else to go and refuse to learn the language and culture.

I lived in Japan more than 15 years and have been arrested and not allowed to speak to anyone, not even a lawyer, for two weeks. I have been taken in for not having my gaijin card on my person when asked, and I have been asked a few times for ID when riding my bicycle and I never once thought I was being singled out or discriminated against. In all cases I was treated with the utmost respect by the Japanese police even when I was in jail. I broke their laws and I understood it!

Also, I have never been barred from re-entering Japan as others have been. Why? Maybe it was because I had a Japanese wife or maybe it was because I understood the laws and customs, as well as the language, and abided by them even when it came to apologizing before a court for my youthful indiscretions and never tried to prove that I had "rights" because I was American. Maybe it was a combination of both.

Get used to it! Living in Japan as a foreigner, as others will attest to, and being asked for your ID is a fact of life. It always has been and always will be. It has not changed in more than 50 or more years and never will in the near future. Also, you will never change it regardless of what you say or how much you protest, or what international law is or what the birth rate is. The fact remains that Japan is a sovereign nation and they have the right, whether you like it or not, to ask you for your ID or to take you in for questioning if they so desire.

Japan's laws do not have to conform to your country's laws and if you don't like it tough sh-t! You can b-tch and moan all you want as I have seen others do these nearly 40 years and still nothing has changed. What you cry about has been cried about for as long as I can remember and still it remains the same. What makes you think you can change it? Debito never has. Japan will only change when Japan wants to change and not because you or others demand it.

Is it right? Not in my opinion and based on the way I was brought up and taught to believe. However, I understood I was not living in my country and the laws are different. But the fact remains that Japan is Japan and not the US or Northern Europe and they will abide by their own laws, not yours or mine.

In my case I understood it and learned to live with it and it made my stay in Japan that much more better and I never had the feelings you have or others have concerning the Japanese police. Knowing their laws and the fact that they will probably never change in the near term, I still plan to retire there shortly and will not try to change Japan or their laws as I expect to be asked now and then for my "gaijin" card when riding my bicycle or just walking the street. To me, as much as I may disagree with it being American, you may disagree, but it shows me they are doing their job.

If you think the Japanese are racist in asking for your ID just try coming here to the US these days and try and ask the police for their ID when they ask for yours as they will at their discretion, or try and ask them for their ID when they stop you for a traffic stop and search your car with no warrant. You'll find yourself in jail faster than you can imagine. Would that be discriminatory or racist in your view?

[FrustratedDave]

Pachipro、I agree completely.

[Reyter]

some nonsense

Firstly if you want me to reply, then reply and address me rather than someone else. If you dont want me to reply, dont ask me questions.

This being so, if you want me to reply you will have to address me directly.

I just have one question. If everyone, or even a majority of people shared or have ever shared your attitude, how far do you think human civilisation would have advanced anywhere? Your message in a nutshell seems to be, "so what if you are treated badly by police or anyone else, you should just accept it and to not do so is only causing uneccessary trouble."

[nice gaijin]

LOL, that is funny! Are you serious or having fun with me? If English is your first language I can only presume it is the latter.

First of all, before you question someone's language skills, you need to have two options in order to refer to "the latter."

Capitalist economy dikatates the need for exapanding markets, resources and general "spheres of influence". If Japan is weak and empty one of its big neighbours will move in and take Japan. Japan will be weak and empty unless there is a lot more immigration. As the numbers of immigrants increases relative to the native population, they will demand more rights and pretty soon the same rights as native people.

That's a logical fallacy wrapped up to look logical. Japan does need immigrants in order to sustain its declining population, but foreign residents will not have the political clout to demand more rights until they are organized, and they won't be able to demand rights equal to native citizens unless they're naturalized, which means they would no longer be foreigners. Unless you're talking about giving equal rights to foreign residents, in which case good luck arguing that one in parliament.

LOL, you are funny. I have been "beaten to the groud"? How so? Thats what I keep saying! Are you stupid??? Part of their job description isnt to ignore the law in order to harrass people who have different color skin simply becasue they have different color skin.

I'm afraid you didn't bother to read what I wrote. Try again. There's no need for you to insult me or my intelligence. I won't respond in kind, and the more you post things like this the less your opinion matters.

I did confirm my interpretation wioth a very high ranking female policewomen. I mean, she works for the police isnt just a dopey s##tkicker cruising around trying to get in the face of people who have different color skin while mafia criminals run rampant.
Its really beside the point. I have said in my original post and several times since, to just publicly and slowly inspect their I.D. first is enough if you are in a hurry..... or just cant stand the stench of the kind of police who cruise around trying to cause trouble for different color skinned people.

Funny that this is the first time you've mentioned this. Forgive me for not believing a hearsay confirmation from "a very high ranking female policewomen." I'm sure it's supposed to sound like a very credible source.

You user name is really interesting. You are aware that the term "gaijin" is primarily a deragatory term given to foreigners. Are you really a ”外国人”？ If so, do you suffer from some kind of bizzare form of the Stockholm syndrome? There is probably another, more specific term for it but I am not a psychologist. I dont know the term.
BTW; I will continue to repeat the same message because I want all foreigners to know about this because I know how many have complined of harrassment by the police and I know many of them have left Japan with a very bad impression. They should know that it isnt Japan or Japanese society in general, it is merely some lawless, racist police who want people to know, or think, how "powerful" and "important" they are. However in the end, they are merely annoying little fascists who should be in the gulag!

I'm aware of the meaning of my name; were you aware that it's not necessarily a derogatory term? Again, I'm not going to bother responding to your lame insults so perhaps you can try to actually make a point for a change instead of making these sad strawman arguments against me. Attacking my character doesn't make you any more right.

Once again, the proof is in the pudding. Follow your own advice and refuse to present ID the next time you're questioned by the police. Set the precedent so there won't be any question as to how the law is interpreted. In the meantime, you should probably avoid proclaiming this interpretation of the law, especially because you have no personal experience with the police that reinforces this interpretation (You admittedly have capitulated every time you were asked for ID). Practice what you preach.

[Reyter]

First of all, before you question someone's language skills, you need to have two options in order to refer to "the latter."

"Serious" or "having fun with me". English isnt my first language but I think i speak it pretty well, dont I?
Apart from this sentence your message was well thought out and put together so i will reply.

That's a logical fallacy wrapped up to look logical. Japan does need immigrants in order to sustain its declining population, but foreign residents will not have the political clout to demand more rights until they are organized, and they won't be able to demand rights equal to native citizens unless they're naturalized, which means they would no longer be foreigners. Unless you're talking about giving equal rights to foreign residents, in which case good luck arguing that one in parliament.

Good point. That is what Debito is trying to do I believe. I am not involved in any significant political activities here but I am trying to do my part in letting foreigners know their rights in dealings with the police. Of course I refering to the uniformed s##tkickers cruising around getting in the face of people with different color skin simply becasue they ahve different color skin. Henceforth I will refer to them as pigs or fascists whether others like it or not. I believe as the numbers grow and become more concentrated political organization will come about. I dont think this has never not happened in any multicultural or even somewhat multicultural place anywhere previously.

I'm afraid you didn't bother to read what I wrote. Try again. There's no need for you to insult me or my intelligence. I won't respond in kind, and the more you post things like this the less your opinion matters.
Funny that this is the first time you've mentioned this. Forgive me for not believing a hearsay confirmation from "a very high ranking female policewomen." I'm sure it's supposed to sound like a very credible source.

You were the one spitting insults at me first. I never mentioned it because I asked her in a casual conversation and she is a psychologist (helps the victims of crime, primarily children. A very nice and very pretty lady.) not a lawyer. I would certainly believe her over some of these "people" posting here who are really desperate to prevent foreigners knowing their rights. I mean Chidoriaishi is clearly a fascist. You can see he justifying police harrassment of Debito becasue he is a naturlized Japanese citizen with white-skin rather than a native Japanese person. While poor "frustrated Dave" is not the brightest person in the world, to say the least. Who would you believe? Its really beside the point anyway.

What I will do if stopped in such a manner by the pigs again is show the Debitos card. If they want to go on with it, I will go from the start but this time showing them I am recording the exchange. I will then (while still recording) ask for their I.D. and if they refuse to show it........... I wont present mine either. If they still want to go on with it...... trouble! Then after all is said and done i will lodge a complaint and if nothing happens with that, see a lawyer. If still nothing happenes i will pack my bags, and take my girlfriend with me home. Is that acceptable for you?

I'm aware of the meaning of my name; were you aware that it's not necessarily a derogatory term? Again, I'm not going to bother responding to your lame insults so perhaps you can try to actually make a point for a change instead of making these sad strawman arguments against me. Attacking my character doesn't make you any more right.

It is primarily used as a derogatory term. I cant understand why you would use it unless you like being reffered to in derogatory terms.

(You admittedly have capitulated every time you were asked for ID). Practice what you preach.

Thats right because I wasnt sure about the law. Now that I am, I will follow the steps outlined above.

[Chidoriashi]

[QUOTE=Reyter;644528]

I would certainly believe her over some of these "people" posting here who are really desperate to prevent foreigners knowing their rights. I mean Chidoriaishi is clearly a fascist. You can see he justifying police harrassment of Debito becasue he is a naturlized Japanese citizen with white-skin rather than a native Japanese person. While poor "frustrated Dave" is not the brightest person in the world, to say the least. Who would you believe? Its really beside the point anyway.

Reyter your ability to not comprehend why people wrote the things they wrote, or why we are debating with you is unprecedented. Why would I be out to keep foreigners from knowing their rights? I have blond hair and blue eyes, and that's about as "foreign looking" as one gets here. What I am doing is preventing you from posting misinformation, and misleading other foreigners into thinking it is in all "our" best interest to cause a big hassle for the police who, according to what is written in Japanese law, are just doing their job. Unfortunately, you are incapable of a logical debate because you do not possess the proper Japanese skills to come up with your own interpretation of the law. So you trust what Debito says, simply because it is what you want to hear. Tell me Retyer, where does Debito say specifically that as a foreigner you have the right to refuse to show your ID to the police? It does not say it directly in English and it does not even mention it in Japanese.

What I said I about Debito, I said because you were trying to mislead other readers into thinking that a Japanese born citizen is the one supporting your case (actually he is not supporting your case, though he is very misleading, and I'm sorry you are too blind with hatred to see it). I fully agree that as citizen of this country Debito has the right to fair and equal treatment like other Japanese. And I am so sorry that HE is racially profiled, but what the hell else can he do? He is a grave minority in this country, and logically, he should expect this.

If they still want to go on with it...... trouble!

Yeah, for you my friend.

Then after all is said and done i will lodge a complaint and if nothing happens with that, see a lawyer.

Why? The law is not on your side. You cannot even read and yet you are going to depend on it.... truly brilliant buddy.

i will pack my bags, and take my girlfriend with me home.

Would you please? You would really be doing all of us other foreigners a favor.

Thats right because I wasnt sure about the law. Now that I am, I will follow the steps outlined above.

You are sure about something you cannot even read. (Shakes head disbelief of the idiocy) Hmmmm... I'm pretty sure Egyptian hieroglyphics say that I am HE-MAN master of the universe. (Sense the sarcasm)

[FrustratedDave]

"Serious" or "having fun with me". English isnt my first language but I think i speak it pretty well, dont I?

No.

Apart from this sentence your message was well thought out and put together so i will reply.

Says he with no reading or comprehension skills.

Good point. That is what Debito is trying to do I believe. I am not involved in any significant political activities here but I am trying to do my part in letting foreigners know their rights in dealings with the police. Of course I refering to the uniformed s##tkickers cruising around getting in the face of people with different color skin simply becasue they ahve different color skin. Henceforth I will refer to them as pigs or fascists whether others like it or not. I believe as the numbers grow and become more concentrated political organization will come about. I dont think this has never not happened in any multicultural or even somewhat multicultural place anywhere previously.

Really? Is that what he is trying to do? Unfortuanately your conveying the wrong infomation, but you keep on in that dream world of yours.

You were the one spitting insults at me first. I never mentioned it because I asked her in a casual conversation and she is a psychologist (helps the victims of crime, primarily children. A very nice and very pretty lady.) not a lawyer. I would certainly believe her over some of these "people" posting here who are really desperate to prevent foreigners knowing their rights.

Well it seems your commuication skills are very poor, b/c noone who works for the police force would say what you are saying they did. You must really suck at Japanese as bad as you do at English... Get her to sign up and have her inform us herself in Japanese of what she said to you. She should not have a problem with that at all. If you can't do that give me where she works and I will call her and confirm and post back here what she said.

I mean Chidoriaishi is clearly a fascist. You can see he justifying police harrassment of Debito becasue he is a naturlized Japanese citizen with white-skin rather than a native Japanese person.

Yeah, yeah ,yeah.... And an Japanese person of asian decent would get the same treatment if he/she were to act like Debido does.

While poor "frustrated Dave" is not the brightest person in the world, to say the least. Who would you believe?

Don't feel sorry for me, I am doing pretty well for "not the brightest person". I own my house and 400 tsubo of land and I own a company started here in Japan and employ about 200 people.
I do have my doubts about you though, as you don't seem dumb, you are actually walking that road.

Its really beside the point anyway.
What I will do if stopped in such a manner by the pigs again is show the Debitos card. If they want to go on with it, I will go from the start but this time showing them I am recording the exchange. I will then (while still recording) ask for their I.D. and if they refuse to show it........... I wont present mine either. If they still want to go on with it...... trouble! Then after all is said and done i will lodge a complaint and if nothing happens with that, see a lawyer. If still nothing happenes i will pack my bags, and take my girlfriend with me home. Is that acceptable for you?

Please do, Japan and all the other forigners living here will be better for it. I just hope you decide not to show your ID even when you were doing nothing suspicious

It is primarily used as a derogatory term. I cant understand why you would use it unless you like being reffered to in derogatory terms.
Thats right because I wasnt sure about the law. Now that I am, I will follow the steps outlined above.

Sure about the law, that is a laugh, thanks for that.

[nice gaijin]

"Serious" or "having fun with me". English isnt my first language but I think i speak it pretty well, dont I? Apart from this sentence your message was well thought out and put together so i will reply.

I'm glad for your sake to hear that English isn't your first language. I can't be sure how well you speak it, only how you write. Moving on...

Good point. That is what Debito is trying to do I believe. I am not involved in any significant political activities here but I am trying to do my part in letting foreigners know their rights in dealings with the police. Of course I refering to the uniformed s##tkickers cruising around getting in the face of people with different color skin simply becasue they ahve different color skin. Henceforth I will refer to them as pigs or fascists whether others like it or not. I believe as the numbers grow and become more concentrated political organization will come about. I dont think this has never not happened in any multicultural or even somewhat multicultural place anywhere previously.

Your disdain for the police is noted, but throwing around disparaging terms all the time is weary for me, and is not conducive to productive conversation.

I think the common ground we have is that I am all for foreigners (and anyone else, for that matter) being fully aware of their rights and knowing how to exercise them. However, I think it's equally important to have a common understanding of those rights, and the good sense of knowing when to exercise them. If you are belligerent and confrontational with the police, I think they would be less inclined to simply leave it at that, especially if they don't share your interpretation of the law. You may find yourself in more trouble than you bargained for. Nothing can make your hell quite like a bureaucracy, and the Japanese are experts at bureaucracy.

You were the one spitting insults at me first.

....when did I insult you? I'll requote myself and bold the relevant part

I'm pretty sure you've beaten your story into the ground, so why continue to repeat the same things over and over?

The misunderstanding is on your side, I'm afraid. I have yet to have insulted you in any deliberate way, and if you can't extend the same courtesy then there's no point in responding anymore.

I never mentioned it because I asked her in a casual conversation and she is a psychologist (helps the victims of crime, primarily children. A very nice and very pretty lady.) not a lawyer. I would certainly believe her over some of these "people" posting here who are really desperate to prevent foreigners knowing their rights. I mean Chidoriaishi is clearly a fascist. You can see he justifying police harrassment of Debito becasue he is a naturlized Japanese citizen with white-skin rather than a native Japanese person. While poor "frustrated Dave" is not the brightest person in the world, to say the least. Who would you believe? Its really beside the point anyway.

It is beside the point, and again, if you continue to attack people that disagree with you, this conversation will simply end.

What I will do if stopped in such a manner by the pigs again is show the Debitos card. If they want to go on with it, I will go from the start but this time showing them I am recording the exchange. I will then (while still recording) ask for their I.D. and if they refuse to show it........... I wont present mine either. If they still want to go on with it...... trouble! Then after all is said and done i will lodge a complaint and if nothing happens with that, see a lawyer. If still nothing happenes i will pack my bags, and take my girlfriend with me home. Is that acceptable for you?

It doesn't matter what is acceptable to me. Do what you do, and if you'd like you can share your experience with us here. But I guarantee you people here will have an opinion about it, and insulting anyone is not going to improve that opinion.

It is primarily used as a derogatory term. I cant understand why you would use it unless you like being reffered to in derogatory terms.

Perhaps you see it that way, but my experience is different. It's also a play on words. It's also similar to a band from a couple decades ago (nice guyjin). But really, my user name is not pertinent to this discussion.

[Reyter]

I'm glad for your sake to hear that English isn't your first language. I can't be sure how well you speak it, only how you write. Moving on...

Your disdain for the police is noted, but throwing around disparaging terms all the time is weary for me, and is not conducive to productive conversation.

I think the common ground we have is that I am all for foreigners (and anyone else, for that matter) being fully aware of their rights and knowing how to exercise them. However, I think it's equally important to have a common understanding of those rights, and the good sense of knowing when to exercise them. If you are belligerent and confrontational with the police, I think they would be less inclined to simply leave it at that, especially if they don't share your interpretation of the law. You may find yourself in more trouble than you bargained for. Nothing can make your hell quite like a bureaucracy, and the Japanese are experts at bureaucracy.

....when did I insult you? I'll requote myself and bold the relevant part
The misunderstanding is on your side, I'm afraid. I have yet to have insulted you in any deliberate way, and if you can't extend the same courtesy then there's no point in responding anymore.

It is beside the point, and again, if you continue to attack people that disagree with you, this conversation will simply end.

It doesn't matter what is acceptable to me. Do what you do, and if you'd like you can share your experience with us here. But I guarantee you people here will have an opinion about it, and insulting anyone is not going to improve that opinion.

Perhaps you see it that way, but my experience is different. It's also a play on words. It's also similar to a band from a couple decades ago (nice guyjin). But really, my user name is not pertinent to this discussion.

I just have a few points.
I was refferring to the "how delusional are you?" comment. Is that not an insult?

It is really disingenuous to lecture me on attacking people who disagree with me. Have a look through this thread and see who started attacking who first. I havent replied to either of them for some time but still...... they are dedicated. Of course if you care to look through this thread (I havent checked but I wonder if that guy has removed the comment about Debito being white skinned and born in USA.) would you say what I said about either of them isnt true?

Insofar as the police, because you have adopeted a civil tone I will do likewise in refferring to them as you seem not to like it otherwise. I dont neccessarily dislike them but when one is pulled up like he is a criminal 2 times and a third time after helping them, and having my details recorded, merely for having white skin, it tends to leave a negative impression. That is on an impression which wasnt very high to start with. I wasnt belligerent the first time and wouldnt go so far as to say that the second time though I wasnt cooperative either. Of course the third time, recently, I was extremely belligerent (only after they turned on me after I helped them). I guess those ones were smarter than average becasue it wouldnt have reflected well on them if i was arrested and the details of the situation became known to a judge or someone like that.

Insofar as my interpretation of the law, if others disagree thats fine. If I am stopped again i will test it and let you know what happens of you like. What no one disputes is that you have the right to first inspect their ID. As I have said several times, doing it slowly and publicly should be enough to humiliate them and discourage such behavior in the future. I just hope any foreigners who read this arent docile lackeys enough to just hand their I.D. over.

Finally, it just seems like several people who have replied to me have been beated down and abused so much they actually like it. Take the message by "Pachipro" as a classic example. I just got the impression giving yourself a username that is generally used as a derogatory term to be an example of this. It is basically the same as a 3 letter word (which I never use because I dont like to insult people on the basis of their race, ethnic group or nationality.) for Japanese people. The origin of the name isnt derogatory but it has come to be derogatory. Being a 外国人 here, I would hope that you would discourage people from using it because I dont want them to think they can use it with me.

[Chidoriashi]

[QUOTE=Reyter;644546]

It is really disingenuous to lecture me on attacking people who disagree with me. Have a look through this thread and see who started attacking who first. I havent replied to either of them for some time but still...... they are dedicated. Of course if you care to look through this thread (I havent checked but I wonder if that guy has removed the comment about Debito being white skinned and born in USA.) would you say what I said about either of them isnt true?

How about we look through all the "Police Harassment" threads and see who started getting the attitude, and saying inflammatory things to people first?

And why would I remove my comment about Debito? I explained why I said it. Do you think you somehow "got me"? Anyway, but that's right you don't read my posts because they show how you have been wrong this whole time. I keep on forgetting that you refuse to have regular dialogue with me about the law.

I dont neccessarily dislike them but when one is pulled up like he is a criminal 2 times and a third time after helping them, and having my details recorded, merely for having white skin, it tends to leave a negative impression. That is on an impression which wasnt very high to start with. I wasnt belligerent the first time and wouldnt go so far as to say that the second time though I wasnt cooperative either. Of course the third time, recently, I was extremely belligerent

You were acting belligerent and uncooperative and the police then started giving you are hard time??? Goodness gracious, imagine that! Well isn't this world just a topsy-turvy place.

Insofar as my interpretation of the law, if others disagree thats fine.

At first all I was trying to do was show you in a factual manner how your interpretation was incorrect. You are the one that has turned this into the fiasco it has become.

Finally, it just seems like several people who have replied to me have been beated down and abused so much they actually like it. Take the message by "Pachipro" as a classic example.

No, we are all just more sensible than you, and have a better understanding and acceptance for this wonderful country than you apparently will ever come close to having. You still cannot just see that you are the cause of your own troubles in this country. Whatever man, enjoy your bewildering misery and frustration.

[Mikawa Ossan]

Reyter, I'm just curious. Have you looked at the link I supplied here?
http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/showpo...8&postcount=94

It's not directly related to this particular discussion at hand, but they may be of assistance to you when you feel you have been wronged. If your girlfriend is Japanese, she can help you with any language issues you may face.

[FrustratedDave]

I just have a few points.
I was refferring to the "how delusional are you?" comment. Is that not an insult?
It is really disingenuous to lecture me on attacking people who disagree with me. Have a look through this thread and see who started attacking who first. I havent replied to either of them for some time but still...... they are dedicated. Of course if you care to look through this thread (I havent checked but I wonder if that guy has removed the comment about Debito being white skinned and born in USA.) would you say what I said about either of them isnt true?
Insofar as the police, because you have adopeted a civil tone I will do likewise in refferring to them as you seem not to like it otherwise. I dont neccessarily dislike them but when one is pulled up like he is a criminal 2 times and a third time after helping them, and having my details recorded, merely for having white skin, it tends to leave a negative impression. That is on an impression which wasnt very high to start with. I wasnt belligerent the first time and wouldnt go so far as to say that the second time though I wasnt cooperative either. Of course the third time, recently, I was extremely belligerent (only after they turned on me after I helped them). I guess those ones were smarter than average becasue it wouldnt have reflected well on them if i was arrested and the details of the situation became known to a judge or someone like that.
Insofar as my interpretation of the law, if others disagree thats fine. If I am stopped again i will test it and let you know what happens of you like. What no one disputes is that you have the right to first inspect their ID. As I have said several times, doing it slowly and publicly should be enough to humiliate them and discourage such behavior in the future. I just hope any foreigners who read this arent docile lackeys enough to just hand their I.D. over.
Finally, it just seems like several people who have replied to me have been beated down and abused so much they actually like it. Take the message by "Pachipro" as a classic example. I just got the impression giving yourself a username that is generally used as a derogatory term to be an example of this. It is basically the same as a 3 letter word (which I never use because I dont like to insult people on the basis of their race, ethnic group or nationality.) for Japanese people. The origin of the name isnt derogatory but it has come to be derogatory. Being a 外国人 here, I would hope that you would discourage people from using it because I dont want them to think they can use it with me.

Typical foriegner who thinks their rights should be above those of the native citizens. You are in another country that is not yours so why do you expect to be treated above that of its citizens? Don't bother answering I don't think I could stand other stupid reply...

And I have no problem throwing insults toward a person who who is as shortsighted, ignorant, obtuse and belligerent as you are.

Still waiting for the phone number of the place that that lady works at, I am sure she would not mind a phone call to confirm an iterpretation on the law.

[nice gaijin]

I was refferring to the "how delusional are you?" comment. Is that not an insult?

No, because I was trying to clarify what you were saying, and I asked "are you really that delusional," because frankly, if you really did think that foreigners should revolt over the mandatory ID, I would think you were delusional.

Insofar as the police, because you have adopeted a civil tone I will do likewise in refferring to them as you seem not to like it otherwise. I dont neccessarily dislike them but when one is pulled up like he is a criminal 2 times and a third time after helping them, and having my details recorded, merely for having white skin, it tends to leave a negative impression. That is on an impression which wasnt very high to start with. I wasnt belligerent the first time and wouldnt go so far as to say that the second time though I wasnt cooperative either. Of course the third time, recently, I was extremely belligerent (only after they turned on me after I helped them). I guess those ones were smarter than average becasue it wouldnt have reflected well on them if i was arrested and the details of the situation became known to a judge or someone like that.
Insofar as my interpretation of the law, if others disagree thats fine. If I am stopped again i will test it and let you know what happens of you like. What no one disputes is that you have the right to first inspect their ID. As I have said several times, doing it slowly and publicly should be enough to humiliate them and discourage such behavior in the future. I just hope any foreigners who read this arent docile lackeys enough to just hand their I.D. over.
Finally, it just seems like several people who have replied to me have been beated down and abused so much they actually like it. Take the message by "Pachipro" as a classic example. I just got the impression giving yourself a username that is generally used as a derogatory term to be an example of this. It is basically the same as a 3 letter word (which I never use because I dont like to insult people on the basis of their race, ethnic group or nationality.) for Japanese people. The origin of the name isnt derogatory but it has come to be derogatory. Being a 外国人 here, I would hope that you would discourage people from using it because I dont want them to think they can use it with me.

I think there's a matter of decorum that is important when you deal with these kinds of situations in Japan. Like it or not, you are viewed as a guest, and being visibly foreign will make you a target for discrimination both benign and tiresome. When you're stopped by the police, most of the time they are just doing their job and enforcing the law as they see it. This doesn't mean they're necessarily power hungry or looking to ruin your day. But the more of a fight you put up and refuse to cooperate, the more suspicious they're likely to become, and the less likely they are to let you get on your way. If you have a lot of free time and feel that your rights are being violated, go right ahead and exercise those rights, but realize that it's much more important how you say things than what you're saying in Japan. This is pretty apparent as the police will approach you as politely as possible, even if they're asking for your ID for no apparent reason. If you bristle up and get defensive, they're just going to pry deeper, and like it or not, they still probably know the law much better than you, and they are more than capable of looking for things that they can stick to you, or even worse, simply waste your time. 9 times out of 10, compliance is completely harmless, and you can just chalk it up to the experience of living as a foreigner in Japan. This isn't likely to change for a few foreigners that raise a stink when they're stopped by the cops.

As to the other guys, I understand tempers are high, and Reyter has been rather stubborn and belligerent himself, but that's no reason to stoop so low as to respond in kind. Let's try to be civil, or simply stop responding to him, it only fans the flames.

[Reyter]

No, because I was trying to clarify what you were saying, and I asked "are you really that delusional," because frankly, if you really did think that foreigners should revolt over the mandatory ID, I would think you were delusional.

Well excuse my poor English but i would have thought the question should have been put forward like this: "Are you delusional?" and I believe that may or may not be considered insulting. If you keep a civil tone, as will I and thus, its of no importance!

I think there's a matter of decorum that is important when you deal with these kinds of situations in Japan. Like it or not, you are viewed as a guest, and being visibly foreign will make you a target for discrimination both benign and tiresome. When you're stopped by the police, most of the time they are just doing their job and enforcing the law as they see it.

I act like a guest here and dont mind it at all. For example, I dont engage in political activities becasue i feel its not my place to even try and impose my political views on Japanese people. That all fine.

You really believe they are only enforcing the law as they see it? To randomly stop people with different color skin from the native people, demand to see and record the rather specific details on their I.D. and to question them is merely "doing their job as they see it" and merely doing that because the people are seen as guests????

I'm sorry, but I cant agree with that at all. It may have been the case in the late 1930s and early 40s. I beleive to prevent this sort of abuse and harrassment is the reason why the subsections in question were added to the law. and BTW; thats not how most people, Japnese or otherwise, treat guests at all.....

they still probably know the law much better than you.

If your earlier statement is true, abot them only enforcing the law as they see it, i think remembering how to read hiragana must be a tremendous drain on their powers of comprehension. I doubt they know much about the law at all.

9 times out of 10, compliance is completely harmless, and you can just chalk it up to the experience of living as a foreigner in Japan .

I dont like being pulled up by the police like I am a criminal simply because I have white skin. I will never just accept that and if it ever happens again I will follow the steps I ahve outlined a few times.

As to the other guys, I understand tempers are high, and Reyter has been rather stubborn and belligerent himself, but that's no reason to stoop so low as to respond in kind. Let's try to be civil, or simply stop responding to him, it only fans the flames.

I take it that means you have had a look through the thread to see who started spitting insults at me first.
BTW: I have stopped responding to them but unfortunately I cant stop them replying to this message or earlier messages.