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View Poll Results: How should Japanese deal with foreigners ?

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  • They should assume that they can't understand Japanese and use gestures

    4 2.76%
  • They should first ask them whether they can speak Japanese (either in Japanese or in English)

    92 63.45%
  • They should address them in Japanese and only use gestures or speak more slowly if the person doesn't understand

    49 33.79%
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Thread: Should all Japanese directly address foreigners in Japanese ?

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  1. #1
    相変わらず不束者です epigene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Very interesting explanation, Epigene !

    Indeed, the American influence in the aftermath of WWII was tremendous, and there was little European presence (as Europe needed to be rebuilt too).
    But that was a few decades ago. Nowadays there are more European residents than American ones in Japan, and as there are much less European companies in Japan (due to the restrictons until recently, which did not apply to the US), there are also less expats, and thus a higher percentage of people who come to Japan for the culture and people rather than just business. Maybe it's time for Japanese to start differentiate not only tourists from residents, but primarily "cultural residents" from primarily "business residents", whatever country they come from.
    Maciamo-san, it comes back again to the sense of inferiority that developed from this experience. The people who are now in their sixties and fifties grew up seeing all of this in action--through personal experiences, through the media, through their parents (and schoolteachers) who displayed their awe toward the Americans. PM Koizumi is in that generation. Many in the position of leadership today belong to this generation.

    This hangup was represented by the term 戦後.
    Although a prime minister (Ikeda Hayato, I think) claimed many decades ago that the "postwar period" is already over fpr the Japanese. It is still ingrained in the Japanese psyche of the older generations. Today, the pursuit of American style of life has evolved into the pursuit of American (and European) quality of life (in social welfare, infrastructure, etc.). Japan still walks with dregs of "sengo" hanging from its back. That is why I have hopes for the younger generations who have less, if any, memory of that.

    As for the growing number of "cultural" residents you have pointed out, you may notice more because you are European--that is, you can identify the nationality of a Western-looking person in most cases because of your experience and knowledge. To many Japanese, all Westerners look American/British/Canadian. I'm pretty sure quite a lot of Japanese can't even distinguish between English and other European languages because their brains start to malfunction in front of foreigners!

    Plus, as I mentioned earlier, I don't see so many as you claim, living every day within my radius of activity (except through work).

  2. #2
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epigene
    Plus, as I mentioned earlier, I don't see so many as you claim, living every day within my radius of activity (except through work).
    I don't often meet Westerners ("see" yes, but "talk to", rarely) in Japan, but it's usually easy to tell from the facial expression, features, style, etc. where they are from. Can't miss an Italian for example. Among the Westerners I have talked to, there were more Europeans and Australians than Americans.

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  3. #3
    相変わらず不束者です epigene's Avatar
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    Hummm...

    Maciamo-san, I myself can't tell the difference between an Italian and an Italian American (or British and American of English blood) from appearance only...

    If you really can tell, it probably is based on your extensive intercultural experience, which you assume as a given. I can tell the difference between a Japanese and Japanese American but am not that familiar with people of European ancestry...

    Because I have more intercultural experience than my relations and the ordinary Japanese I meet on a daily basis, I'm certain most Japanese can't tell the nationality of Westerners.

  4. #4
    Chukchi Salmon lexico's Avatar
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    Epigene & Maciamo-sans!

    Reading your posts have taught me so much about what is going on in Japan.
    I should probably have to go there myself and spend some time there to get a real feel of it, but I'm getting a pretty good idea of the varied experiences that I'll get.

    Face recognition that you are discussing seems to be highly influenced by experience and culture. I've noticed new arrivals from Asia to the US have a hard time telling non-Asian people apart unless they met the same person quite frequently. Eventhough my wife spent 7 years in the US, she still says this person looks like that person which I cannot agree, but that's because her vision has not been taught to distinguish them. She studied graphic arts, so it's not her vision that's causing her inability.

    On another note, the "sengo" psychology that you mentioned, and all the details of it including the hyper-reaction to the Western-looking foreigner might take some time to lessen and to eventually disappear. Are there any art forms that deal with the "sengo" physchology regarding foreigners?

    Theatre, film, comedy, manga; these things seem to be possible art forms to express (or to seriously make fun of) the uncomfortableness and foreignness of dealing with a Westerner, which might be quite effective at raising awareness of the problem. If they can amuse and make people laugh, we are one step closer to a rational solution. Are you aware of any ?
    Z: The fish in the water are happy.
    H: How do you know ? You're not fish.
    Z: How do you know I don't ? You're not me.
    H: True I am not you, and I cannot know. Likewise, I know you're not, therefore I know you don't.
    Z: You asked me how I knew implying you knew I knew. In fact I saw some fish, strolling down by the Hao River, all jolly and gay.

    --Zhuangzi

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