Fluent Foreigners Now Accepted In Japan!

[ArmandV]

Why not give it a shot? I'm for it. Anyone have any connections?

I seriously doubt that the U.N. would be interested in this, to be honest (I could be wrong). But rather than go over Japan's head, why not contact the Japanese government first? Then you can work up from there.

Maybe a petition or letter-writing campaign to the Consul General would be a good place to start. The Consul General of Japan in the United States may be contacted at:

Hon. Yoshio Nomoto, Consul General of Japan
350 South Grand Avenue, Suite 1700
Los Angeles, CA 90071
Telephone: (213) 617-6700

[lexico]

I'm all for it. UN, Embassies, Consular Offices, Japanese Government, Parties, TV Stations, Ministry of Education, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, anything that will solve this problem...it can be a showcase of prblem solving cultural conflicts. btw isn't UN responsible for lowering international conflicts?

Here's Embassies of the World.

[ArmandV]

btw isn't UN responsible for lowering international conflicts?

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In theory, yes.

[Pachipro]

I seriously doubt that the U.N. would be interested in this, to be honest (I could be wrong). But rather than go over Japan's head, why not contact the Japanese government first? Then you can work up from there.
Maybe a petition or letter-writing campaign to the Consul General would be a good place to start.

You may be all too correct here ArmandV. The point is that if someone starts the ball rolling and others who feel the same pick up on it, something may come out of all this. See my thread on "Gaijin vs. Gaikokujin"
http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/showth...073#post173073

It worked then for that little sore point with foreigners. Why not for the rest of the gripes?

However, if apathy reigns supreme, and foreigners would rather "***** & moan" about the problems rather than take part in the solution, nothing will change. It will be only the foreigners who know there is a problem. The Japanese will still feel there isn't one.

[ArmandV]

You may be all too correct here ArmandV. The point is that if someone starts the ball rolling and others who feel the same pick up on it, something may come out of all this. See my thread on "Gaijin vs. Gaikokujin"
http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/showth...073#post173073

It worked then for that little sore point with foreigners. Why not for the rest of the gripes?

However, if apathy reigns supreme, and foreigners would rather "***** & moan" about the problems rather than take part in the solution, nothing will change. It will be only the foreigners who know there is a problem. The Japanese will still feel there isn't one.

That's why I think for something like this, the U.N. would not be too terribly interested and that going directly to the Japanese government would be better. I prefer the direct approach. If the consul is flooded with letters and petitions directly, then you would have their immediate attention. Better yet, since we have members from other countries who have the same "gripes," they can also bombard the Japan consuls in their countries at the same time.

[Maciamo]

btw isn't UN responsible for lowering international conflicts?

Here is the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination

The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) is the body of independent experts that monitors implementation of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination by its State parties.

Japan is a signatory of the treaties. Let me bring your attention on :
- International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination

- Universal Declaration on Cultural Diversity

- International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families

Here's Embassies of the World.

No no, I insist that we use JREF's own embassy listing, which by the way is the most complete on the web for Japanese embassies abroad and foreign embassies in Japan and has links to all official websites (if there is one).

[thomas]

No no, I insist that we use JREF's own embassy listing, which by the way is the most complete on the web for Japanese embassies abroad and foreign embassies in Japan and has links to all official websites (if there is one).

On a side note: the most comprehensive listing of Japanese embassies abroad is actually here (constantly updated)

=> http://www.wa-pedia.com/dir/Governme...ns/index.shtml

[lexico]

Welcome back, PachiPro!
It's been well over two weeks, already past three weeks in fact since you left for Tokyo. I was wondering whether you got stuck in Japan, or got scouted for a milliom bucks contract !
So how has it been ? Did you find any change in the way they treated fluent foreigners there ?

[garethparke]

i am so glad to able to post something. i have been reading this conversation and its beginning to bug me and i am guttted that someone of such experience and time in japan can be so boiled up by this. i lived in japan with a bunch of foreigners and there were a few with the exact opinion as maciamo and frankly it rubs me up the wrong way. this constant whining about "we are looked down on" and "they think we are third rate" blah blah blah - firstly if it bugs you so much (which it obviously does) why are you living there? i was in japan for a year and was asked none of these questions you keep rehashing. i understand your points completley but i find there is a negative mind set there in the first place to be looking for these racists comments. and the reason for me writing this post is to 1, voice my total and absolute disagreement and more importantly two, to find out what age group of japanese people are asking these questions? i noted your age earlier and for my own information i was curious to see if it is the younger generations of japan who ask such questions as i think your racist commentry about the whole of japan being a homogenous pool of arrogance doesnt fit in my 12 months experience. (i understand my experience cant speak for japan but at least if your comments are true then i should have been asked once in a while, no?)

[Pachipro]

Thank you for the "welcome back" Lexico and welcome to the forums garethparke.

My stay in Japan was wonderful as usual, albeit too short this time. To answer your question, I was treated with the usual respect and courtesy afforded anyone else in places of business. I've learned over the years if you can speak Japanese and speak it with confidence when entering a place of business no one freaks out or trys to use sign language or refuses you service. I went into many places by myself and encountered no problems whatsoever, from buying batteries for my camera to ordering beer and food in a place I have never been in before.

About the only things I experienced was making a few more friends I met while out drinking with a friend of mine in Tokyo one night and I was complimented on my Japanese by a few people working in these places of business. I was not refused entry to the onsen we stayed at and no one looked at me in an unusual way.

I also did have a conversation with an older gentleman in the onsen though, on why I was in Japan, why did I like it, can I eat Japanese food, etc. and we ended our conversation over a glass of cold tea and a cigarette outside the bath. Believe it our not, he started the conversation in English with "Do you speak Japanese?" and when I confirmed that I did, our conversation was all in Japanese. I immediately thought of this forum when he asked that question and had to laugh to myself. It didn't bother me in the least as I am accustumed to this by now. In fact I found it refreshing that some Japanese people are still curious when meeting a foreigner and will talk to them rather than ignoring them. All in all it was a great trip.

I have a video I made of my trip with pictures and video stills if anyone is interested. It is about 14mb so it may take a while to download. You may have to use the pause button for the first 40 seconds if you want to look at the pics longer. Just follow this link:

http://home.comcast.net/~pachipro/Japan_2005_0001.wmv

[Maciamo]

i lived in japan with a bunch of foreigners and there were a few with the exact opinion as maciamo and frankly it rubs me up the wrong way. this constant whining about "we are looked down on" and "they think we are third rate" blah blah blah - firstly if it bugs you so much (which it obviously does) why are you living there?

I have answered your question here

and the reason for me writing this post is to 1, voice my total and absolute disagreement and more importantly two, to find out what age group of japanese people are asking these questions? i noted your age earlier and for my own information i was curious to see if it is the younger generations of japan who ask such questions as i think your racist commentry about the whole of japan being a homogenous pool of arrogance doesnt fit in my 12 months experience.

Did I mention my age anywhere on this forum ? As for the Japanese I meet, I probably have met and discussed wth a wider range of people than most foreigners in Japan (esp. tourists). On one side I have my wife's Japanese family, all her friends (I'd say nearly 100 that I met - she is very sociable ), then people I meet through my job, and finally people I observed, eavedrop to in the train or in cafes/restaurants, people I come into brief contact in the street, in shops, government offices, etc., and why not also add people on TV. I like analysing how all these people think and behave, and take particular attention in remembering what they say about foreigners, Westerners, foreign countries or languages.

Overall, I'd say I mostly meet people in the 20's, 30's and 40's, but many of the most negative experiences I had where with people over 50 (although not my mother-in-law, who is very kind). I have listened (or heard through my wife) enough to my grand-mother-in-law though to get a good idea of what older people think of foreigners. Even after 2 years in the family, the grand-mother still wouldn't talk to me directly and only address me via my wife, her mother or somebody else. She was persuaded I couldn't understand Japanese, although I answered in Japanese in front of her, and talked to my mother-in-law only in Japanese as she doesn't speak English (or other languages) at all. I can tell you that the same happens with many elderly Japanese people (mostly over 70), such as the neighbours who just ignore me even when I greet them. I also had many salespeople ringing at my door, and almost everytime they would be all embarassed when they saw that a gaijin opened the door. Some would even say aloud "aah, komatta, gaijin da!" (oh ****, it's a foreigner!) thinking I can't understand them. These are mostly the people I complain about. Not the people who come to talk to foreigners by themselves or want to practice their English (they are still a minority, although it wouldn't appear in places like Ginza, Shibuya or Shinjuku).

As we say (in French) the truth comes from the mouth of the children, and it certainly does about their parents or teachers. I try as much as I can to listen to the reaction of children when they see me, a gaijin, or how suspiciously they look at me. I can easily say if there parents are gaijin-friendly or not just by observing them with their parents. That requires good observation and psychological skills, but I love it.

As for the stupid questions, misconceptions about foreignc ountries and prejudices about foreigners, I have surprisingly found them in every age and socio-econonomic groups. I know that some Japanese do not even realise how offensive it can be to doubt a foreigner's ability to use chopsticks, because some of my wife's friends who have studied abroad and had foreign boyfriends still asked me such questions. When I told my wife how these questions irritated me, as there is no reason I couldn't use chopsticks while living in Japan, and that they ask me only because I am a foreigner, even when they know exactly how long I have been in Japan. My wife had no idea, but has since taken my side and now explains to her friend that it is not polite to ask such things, as I am a human like everybody else and not some kind of retarded creature called "gaijin".