Ragedaddy - thanks for clearing that up! I was too quick to overreact...
Ragedaddy - thanks for clearing that up! I was too quick to overreact...
you do not like eating?- their favourite topic of conversation is food
if there ever was any local culture.- when travelling abroad, they care little about the local culture except food
or dying and death like some americans- when they do not talk about food, they talk about money or sex
ya buy "love": if your money is used up the love ends.- The proverbs "money doesn't buy happiness/love" or "don't judge a book by its cover" have no significance in Japan
and here clochards are entering the city council and getting jobs by 1:3 lottery.- clothes do make the man in Japan (which explain the success of brand clothes, black suits and even that of cosplay, bunny girls or the importance that Japanese women attach to their wedding dress)
and how polite they ask. even here staff does not give out things just for money- people indeed do not get treated the same way (be it in a shop, by government officials, by the police or whatever) depending on how well they dress and look.
that's offensive. 39 reasons.- they think an opuent and expensive wedding is necessary for appearances' sake (even if that is way above their means)
nice, very nice.- some Japanese companies have a tiny head office in Tokyo (esp. Nihombashi) just for appearances' sake, as it is said to give them a higher status.
and you see the good in people with dirty clothing, sunglasses and big cars.- they judge people from their appearance and tend to be easily prejudiced (e.g. toward foreigner-looking persons)
it is a way to express dislike for people who do not look japanese enough.- they use gestures and speak strange Japanese to foreigners who address them in fluent Japanese (or before they have a chance to speak), as if they had convinced themselves that somebody who didn't look Japanese could not possibly understand their language
like geek, ***** and nerd?- however Japanese language is so deficient in vocabulary and acurate expressions that it has to borrow thousands of new words from other languages every year
which are well understood.- the structure of Japanese language is so inflexible and clumsy (no relative sentences, few tenses, few nuances) that Japanese people end up speaking with isolated words (often adjectives, see below) rather than making full sentences.
do you easily debate lacking any reasons?- they can't debate and dislike serious intellectual discussions (probably due to the language issues mentioned above)
literary discussions on tv?- there are very few intellectual programmes on TV (documentaries, debates, political analysis, social phenomenons, literary discussions...), due to a general lack of interest of the population
news in europe are repeating one thing all day: dying and death.- people on TV usualy repeat the same few adjectives all the time (oishii, omoshiroi, hidoi, kirei...) , as if they were linguistically challenged.
they speak all day of earthquakes and they may die of that probably?- people in everyday life actually do speak like mentioned above
rather can you afford sushi? we have sushi here in europe.- they ask the same routine dumb questions to foreigners ("can you use chopsticks; can you eat sushi, is there 4 seasons in your country, etc.")
and we are holy churchgoers.- they tend of lack sexual morals and don't mind cheating "as long as their partner doesn't know"
offensive. 38 reasons.- they have casual sex with several partners without protection and don't worry about STD's
ya western secretary woman all have little repair shops at home.- they have a computer but don't know much how to use even quite simple functions, due to a lack of interest for technology
- they throw away a dysfunctuning electronic equipment (e.g. computer) or machine, rather than try to repair it
if they have a house.- they call an plumber, electrician or carpenter to repair things in their house, because they are not interested in DIY (Japan is a service country par excellence, due to people's lack of knowledge or interest in a wide array of things)
more supid than the people here?- they go to juku after school because they sleep or are too slow to learn at school (slowing down the teacher's rythm) and can't assimilate the necessary knowledge to pass the exams. They still end up learning much less than European children in foreign languages, history, geography and critical thinking.
if you go to a manga shop it is obviously.- manga, porn and fashion magazines account for over 90% of convenience stores' literature.
a japanese would not do that on the same day- shops staff repeat "irasshaimasse", then "domo arigato gozaimashita" like robots to anybody that enters or exit, even if the same person comes in and out three times in 5 minutes
ya we all think think and think.- they can't think by themselves, and believe the media, commercials or what people tell them much too easily
so do we- they buy on impulse rather than after careful comparison and analysis
would complain about them for being critical. ya i know our magazines are announcing everthing as BS to increase sales.- there are virtually no magazines that test and rate products such as electronics, books, movies, games, etc. They only introduce these products without critical commentary (because the makers/sellers would sue them for being critical !)
here we are individually arguing with police staff- they are a nation of followers that suffer from the "sheep syndrome" => if every jumps in the river, let's jump in the river too ! (i.e. lack of critical and independent thinking)
people need nike for better living- as a result, when something becomes fashionable, everybody must have it (e.g. Louis Vuitton handbags), even if that means it looses its uniqueness or originality.
restaurant introduced on tv? have you hallucinated that?- when a restaurant is "introduced" on TV, one can be sure that it will be full to the brim for the week to come, then people will forget about it as quickly as they had rushed on it (just to show how influenceable the Japanese are).
now they think.- they think that most women are just good to serve tea, smile, be beautiful and make children (I mean, the cultural influence is so strong that many Japanese women also think so, not just men)
our politicans are anwering emails, you know, and giving jobs to jobless people immediately, including a sugar-free candy.- politicians are corrupted and inefficient beyond redemption, because they only care about themselves, and not the nation's welfare.
and recruitment agencies serving coffe, take a seat, very firendly, job in five minutes.- people accept that politicians are as mentioned above, because they don't expect their own kind to act in a more virtous way
as long as it is only chatting...- men don't mind paying huge sums of money just to chat with bar hostesses, because they can't get a girlfriend (sad) or feel that it give them some form of status (shallow)
- about one out of three Japanese men frequents or has already been to one of these hostess bar.
often it is indeed- not being married after the age of 35 or 40 can hurt some people's credibility or status, as people think that there is 'something wrong' with them
this should really change. people should have a coffin at home, if they need one, it is too late, obvioulsy. +3 bonus reasons- they care a lot about marriage, but little about the eventuality of divorce, so that prenuptial agreements are almost unheard of, because people 'don't like to think that bad things could happen' - while Westerners cannot not think about this eventuality and be prepared for it. Similarily, very few Japanese write their testament. Japanese seem to worry a lot, but rarely about things that matter most.
offensive. 37 reasons.- many Japanese fathers do not think that they have a role in their children's education. This is so culturally ingrained that in case of divorce, the mother almost always get the exclusive custody of the child(ren), and the father often 'never' see them again - and often doesn't care much anyway.
do they have clumsy cheese?- they find pleasure in asking foreigners what kind of Japanese food they can't eat - even if they can't eat it themself (never really understood the purpose of those questions)
people should have something japanese, and not a mind concept, japanese would be american hostages which were forced to learn kanji.- many Japanese are convinced that their nation is "unique for being unique" (i.e. they think that all the world is a big melting-pot, but Japan is the only country that is 'pure' and homogenous, which makes it unique, and they are the only nation to enjoy such uniqueness.).
"Is this not a worldwide phenomenon, turn on the TV in the US, and you can see "Hi, I'm pregnant at 13 yrs old," as a theme."
The difference is, atleast in Tokyo, the issue of making unprotected sex under the age 15 ILLEGAL came up. In America, we don't really care, because it gives us something to feel good about ourselves for, and because if you have a child, you'd better take care of it, nevermind the fact it could've been rape, eh, etc..
Also, is we banned underage sex, the Christians would win, and that wouldn't be right.
the christians are very strict: no sex at all if man/woman are not married.Originally Posted by cyber ape
the reaction was lots of young people broke this rule, you know what happend in the sixties: rock'n'roll, then the hippie era/the disco thing.
indirect the christs are evil: the produce rule-breakers.
new rules must be designed to be moderate, more education what happens if young girls get pregnant, the diseases and so on.
----------
to make drugs criminal- this does not solve the problem.
drug intake is an active action of disconnection from the family/relationships.
right educated people refuse illegal substances.
not because they are illegal.
because they are in good relationships with their family/partners, and know the effects of these substances.
not to say that these things may occur together: drugs, prostitution and underage pregnacy.
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it may sound conservative, i know. extensive information about the results of underage sex (pregnancy, problems with parents, poverty, drugs and so on) might be labelled as propaganda.
people who know these results do not need excessive regulations by law.
my personal opinion is that the family must agree to such relationships, and must be able to support them financially. otherwise, it would be social illegal for these people to get intim.
Very typical gaijin view of Japan. Its unfortunate that most people only ever see this perspective of Japan, perhaps because the language and social barriers are still too great after all these years. More unfortunate that most people in this thread seem to agree with the original post. Apparently most people never get beyond talking about completely meaningless talk with a Japanese person, which is why they are perceived as being shallow. I can tell you that the boring and shallow conversations that you are probably having with a Japanese person, despite the apparent enthusiasm expressed by them, is totally reciprocal and they are totally bored too. With so many foreigners in Japan you would think there has been some bridge across the cultures, but apparently not yet.
In some way, the isolation that this creates for Japanese can be constructive as it means they can go and do the weird and wonderful things that they do, without judgement. Once there is understanding between western and japanese cultures, then anything that anyone does has to be "good" under western values as well. That day will probably be the end of true uniqueness of Japan, which would also be a pity.
So theres good and bad in this, probably more good than bad actually.
Really ? That's strange I have rarely heard such views on forums in English about Japan. In fact I found that many "Japan-lovers" didn't want to see or hear anything like that at all. Btw, are you a Japanese or a non-Japanese ?
My wife says that she has never learnt so much about all kind of things as since she met me - because she had never met any Japanese as interesting or knowlegeable as me (her words, not mine). I have had many individual students who continued their weekly lesson with me for 1, 2 or in some cases even 3 years because they learnt more than just English. They were free to change teacher or stop the lessons anytime they wanted. So I doubt I that I was a total bore.I can tell you that the boring and shallow conversations that you are probably having with a Japanese person, despite the apparent enthusiasm expressed by them, is totally reciprocal and they are totally bored too.
What I criticise is Japanese society in general, not only the individuals I have met. Look a the media - boring and superficial. Compared to the median of society I am a bit more on the intellectual side, and I can tell you that it is hard to find food for the mind on Japanese TV. Where are all the debates about society and politics, where are the documentaries about history, science and nature, where are the geo-political analysis of worldwide issues (e.g. the war in Iraq, the situation in Darfur, the conflict in Kashmir) ? No, Japanese TV is full of stupid games and variety shows, with series and movies, but nothing to make you think.
When I am in a cafe or restaurant in Japan and I eavesdrop on conversations around me, it is very often the same things that are always discussed : food, marriage, fashion, celebrities... Very few people talk about more serious stuff. It is completely different here in Belgium.
As you can see it is not a language issue in my case, but an actual cultural difference. Japanese culture encourages superficial talks. On the contrary French-speaking culture encourage serious discussions.
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<quote> Its unfortunate that most people only ever see this perspective of Japan, perhaps because the language and social barriers are still too great after all these years. </quote>
Japan is supposed to be at least one of the major economies in the world we live on. Somehow I would think these major economies should be little bit more openminded, at least for their own people. Still they have their own mafia openly running their yakuza businesses. How logical is such thing to exsist in major economies ?
Maciamo, the problem is you hold yourself in high regard (not necisarrily a character flaw), you pride yourself on YOUR view of the world, YOUR view of everything, every specific opinion and every specific quality.
The problem starts when you percieve a country to be somehow below your high standards.
Why should Japan comply with your specific Eurocentric view of the universe?, why must Japan face judgement from a very European perspective?, why do you need to constantly point out how great Belgium is and japan isnt?.
Your ONE person with one UNIQUE view.
Japan is a seperate country seperated by geography and the haze of history from the rest of the world for a long time.
The Japanese have had many many hundreds of years to refine their world view and decide what is important and what isnt.
Everyone here knows fine japan has problems, it has short-commings, the problem starts is that 1) Your making it out as if Belgium and Europe are the height of civilization, you might not mean it, but thats how it is, yeah, so what if the Japanese think differently of food and sex, so what if they could care less about something you specifically hold as sacred? they arent imposing their will on you, so its not your concern, and diversity is simply a fact of human life.
The Japanese arent shallow, and I'm sorry your experiences werent very satisfying, but, your experiences of japan arent the only one and they cant and never will override the mass of experiences of everyone else who has experienced life in Japan.
It boils down to one simple thing, this one simple thing I mentioned a long time ago on this forum and this is it.
You either love or hate Japan.
You hated it, nearly everyone else managed to find part of it they loved.
You had bad experiences and Japan just didnt fit you. You admit yourself, Your very specific and stone set on what you like and dont, what you prioratise in life and what you disregard.
Japan simply pushed the limits of what YOU find acceptable, fine, your an individual, free to your own specifics.
I would say, its not that you cant comprimise in certain areas like many of us, its just that while some of us can comprimise certain things like our sensitivities to certain "slights", you couldnt.
While you found many examples of descrimination or ignorance nearly unbearable, Many others could look past it, so it didnt ruin their visit/life there, for others, they simply never suffered any really note-worthy examples of descrimination or ignorance.
In my case if a lady in the same apartment building as me wants to look wide-eyed and terrified of me then go ahead, look like an idiot, not my problem.
If my girlfriends Grandpa wants to be a racist dinosaur good for him, I pity him, I dont take any real offense, because I know he's just poor pitiful old man with pre-set idea's that will deny him many positive worthwhile experiences and friendships in life. My only gripe with him was he made my girlfriend cry.
Japan isnt Belgium, it isnt Europe.
Applying strict European standards to a country that only really opened up to it in any real way a few hundred years ago is hardly fair.
Changing the mind of an individual is easy, changing an entire heavily in-looking culture within a historically short period of time is more difficult.
Give Japan time, and even then, dont expect Europe where there isnt any.
So are each European country.
False. I don't see things in black or white. I try to weigh the good and the bad in each culture and country. So country just happen to have more good or less bad than others. There are many things that I like about Japan (see this thread).It boils down to one simple thing, this one simple thing I mentioned a long time ago on this forum and this is it.
You either love or hate Japan.
You hated it, nearly everyone else managed to find part of it they loved.
I came to Japan with a very postive approach. In fact it was so positive that I embraced Japan completely, learn the language, experience all I could, read a lot about it, met lots of peolpe, and try to be interested in things that I wasn't really interested in before (manga, kabuki, Japanese literature, Shintoism...). The more I learnt and discovered about Japan, the more people I met, the more fluent I became in Japanese, and the more I came to dislike Japan because I felt that my good expectations were going to be fulfilled. The deeper I scratched over the surface and the more dirt I found, despite my attempts to find more positive things.
That's true, but my values are deeply influenced by European cultural values. So if I feel the way I do about Japan, chances are high that other Europeans/Westerners will be the same way too, if they experience the same things as me and judge Japanese culture by the same standards.Japan simply pushed the limits of what YOU find acceptable, fine, your an individual, free to your own specifics.
This tells me more about you than about Japanese people...While you found many examples of descrimination or ignorance nearly unbearable, Many others could look past it, so it didnt ruin their visit/life there, for others, they simply never suffered any really note-worthy examples of descrimination or ignorance.
With that kind of argument I could say that Belgium wasn't a country until 175 years ago. It is hardly fair to compare a 175-year old country with the oldest monarchy in the world !Applying strict European standards to a country that only really opened up to it in any real way a few hundred years ago is hardly fair.
There are Japanese that leave the country for a greater intellectual experience and open debate on global/societal issues. There are Europeans I've known that deeply appreciate the civility and peace of Japan.That's true, but my values are deeply influenced by European cultural values. So if I feel the way I do about Japan, chances are high that other Europeans/Westerners will be the same way too, if they experience the same things as me and judge Japanese culture by the same standards.
Each of us has to pursue what we think is best for ourselves and our lives personally. I'm sorry it didn't work out there but that is your individual burden. Others of us may uncover what was missing in our primary culture for very inexplicable reasons and feel immediately more at home in Asia than Europe or America.
And If Japanese society does trend in the direction of intellectualization, which is probably inevitable, it will be in a very particular style and form that the people themselves are trusting of and comfortable in.
Didn't you say you didn't like repeating yourself at some point ?
You can't be serious. lol.
ook, despite the fact that my grandma is pure Japanese (as is a nice portion of my family; though I am not), I don't claim to be the surpreme all-knowing being about the majority of the population of Japan.. but you make it sound like they're all ignorant, lechorous, gluttons with little values.
Of course there's going to be people like this, but there's going to be people like that everywhere.
And yeah, Japanese men (not saying all of them now), are kinda perverted. That's why there's a fairly big problem with men touching woman and even young teenagers on the overcrowded trains. But again, there's plenty of people like that in other crowded places with woman. I've seen guys that are complete strangers with the woman they're interacting with, grind chicks at concerts. There was this band, it wasn't one that I felt like moshing for, but I really liked them so I moved up front. There was this guy, with a blonde and pink mohawk trying to push me out of the way to grind this chick in front of me. I didn't let him past me, so he proceeded to try the same with a girl that went with my friends and I there.
Also, you mentioned manga and magazines being 90% of the literature income at convenient stores. It's a cheap, pocket sized source of literature.. plus you can't expect someone to go into a 7-11 or something and buy a copy of The Da vinci Code, or A Brief History of the Mind.
Also, their school systems are still pretty intense with 6 day weeks (though I could be wrong.. I think my grandma told me they changed it a couple years back) and "cram" schools.. and about the rude questions they ask to foreigners, America's never had such a great history with immigration; plus, at least to my knowledge, a lot of them don't go around saying "If you're going to be here, learn to speak Japanese!" As a final note, the same is returned to many asians, even ones not of Japanese descent (do you use chop sticks? etc. etc..). You don't know how annoying it gets to hear people ask "Do you use chop sticks?", or other attempts at friendly chit-chat about my culture.. but I just put on a faint smile because I know they're just trying to be polite or nice.
I'm not saying they're culturally perfect (and really, no country is), but you make them sound worse than they really are. Although they aren't all exactly as quaint or "refined" as people they were thought to be so long ago. But saying that all the (or, greater than 50%) are superficial.. well, such generalizations shouldn't be placed on any nationality.
This isnt the first time I have heard that the Japanese are very "free" sexually,so is it common place is Japan to sort of have a boyfriend/girlfriend then a bunch of "on the side" things?they have casual sex with several partners without protection and don't worry about STD's
Actually, if a lot of this is true, which it seems from what I've always heard so far, Japan is a very represive, sad country, with low standards from what I see. I would say it was more respectable in it's Feudal Times.
I'm not saying that any country is better, but how sad Japan really is. I am just daring to go there and have a compltely diffrent experience from what's been laid out for me so far.
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