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Thread: Comparing Japan and the world => tolerance & prejudices

  1. #26
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    there are many Restaurant@that@refuse customers without letter of introduction

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenski View Post
    For tolerance and prejudices, let's see how many countries still post signs like "No foreigners allowed". Japan has them in places, despite signing the anti-discrimination treaty 12 years ago. NO laws have been enacted to enforce that signing.
    Just research why so many people incl. far-left activists or yakuza and media are saying "NO" against the controversial "Human Right Law", which the ruling coalition is eager to enact.

    Keep it in mind that I will say to you, "you are quite unfair when you say, "Japan is a horrible police state", when the law is enforced", if you're intereted in human right issues.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by caster51 View Post
    It is Ok to enter , however I would keep sign like that.
    if they keep to complain about that , they are not a customer
    OK next time you go to a foreign country I hope you come across a sign that has "No Japanese" allowed and see how it feels.

    You know most people live here like to think that Japan isnt a third world country, but with discriminatory practices like these it is hard to think otherwise.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pipokun View Post
    Just research why so many people incl. far-left activists or yakuza and media are saying "NO" against the controversial "Human Right Law", which the ruling coalition is eager to enact.
    Please read my reply to Caster

  5. #30
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    No Japanese" allowed and see how it feels.
    I dont care at all.
    I look for other place. most japanese tend to not care about that.

    there are so many like that in korea and china even in chinese hospital sign "No Japanese" allowed "
    I am not specifying what race they are..

  6. #31
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    Japanese tend to be practical rather than idealistic. They don't feel entitled to everything and don't go where they're not wanted.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obeika View Post
    Please read my reply to Caster
    Don't know which one or I don't know if you're naturalised or not, but the US govenment keeps biometric info of your wife or yours forever.
    I guess you can get more money from the US govenment than Japanese hostess bars. But don't worry if I don't care about it.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by pipokun View Post
    Don't know which one or I don't know if you're naturalised or not, but the US govenment keeps biometric info of your wife or yours forever.
    I guess you can get more money from the US govenment than Japanese hostess bars. But don't worry if I don't care about it.
    First off what the heck does my wife have to do with this discussion?

    Secondly what else do you mean by saying that I can get more money from the US government?

    Your post makes absolutely no sense to me.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by caster51 View Post
    ‚h@‚„‚‚Ž‚”@‚ƒ‚‚’‚…@at all.
    I look for other place. most japanese tend to not care about that.
    there are so many like that in korea and china even in chinese hospital sign "No Japanese" allowed "
    I am not specifying what race they are..
    You know you may not care, hence your unwillingness to view the issue from a "foreigners" point of view, but until Japanese people can get over discriminatory practices like these it will always be an issue with the foreigners that come here to live.

    It's a shame too.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obeika View Post
    You know you may not care, hence your unwillingness to view the issue from a "foreigners" point of view, but until Japanese people can get over discriminatory practices like these it will always be an issue with the foreigners that come here to live.
    It's a shame too.
    OK, but I'm a "foreigner" and I happen to share Caster's point of view on this one as pertains to Japan. Does that mean that I'm not viewing the issue from a "foreigner's" point of view?

    This is slightly off topic, but what I found exponentially more insulting were the "foreigner only" clubs I saw in Sri Lanka.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean Dude View Post
    Japanese tend to be practical rather than idealistic. They don't feel entitled to everything and don't go where they're not wanted.
    I don't look at it this way, but rather Japanese people are less likely to confront something that they may feel is wrong or improper, rather than confront a situation or "make a scene" when they are discriminated against or told that they can't do something or go somewhere.

    It has nothing to do with idealism imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikawa Ossan View Post
    OK, but I'm a "foreigner" and I happen to share Caster's point of view on this one as pertains to Japan. Does that mean that I'm not viewing the issue from a "foreigner's" point of view?
    This is slightly off topic, but what I found exponentially more insulting were the "foreigner only" clubs I saw in Sri Lanka.
    No it doesnt. However like I wrote it will continue to be an issue with many foreigners in Japan, because the practices are discriminatory.

    It's easy to say what Caster did until he experiences it himself, I've experienced it more in mainland than here in Okinawa....but it still happens here depending on the location, and mostly it is in hostess clubs or bars, not "daytime" businesses.
    Last edited by KirinMan; Jun 18, 2007 at 22:00. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  12. #37
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    One other thing here, I dont think that the average Japanese person is even aware that issues like this exist, and because of it dont really care one way or the other, probably because they are not affected by issues like this in their daily lives.

    It similar to the Japanese people that are shocked when they get refered to as "gaijin" when they travel overseas.

  13. #38
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    One other thing here, I dont think that the average Japanese person is even aware that issues like this exist
    as a Japanese View, there is no discrimination in that sign with malice.
    it is not discrimination at all because a Japanese says so honestry.
    it is a paranoid.
    because you contry is so....
    it means it is full of discrimination
    because you did that in your mind too....

    it is simple.
    recentry, police check the inside of bag at random in a certain city because of Knives.
    a Foreigner was also done like that
    he said " it is a gaijin discrimination of police in Japan....
    However,.
    many Japanese were also done.

  14. #39
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    recentry, police check the inside of bag at random in a certain city because of Knives.
    a Foreigner was also done like that
    he said " it is a gaijin discrimination of police in Japan....
    However,.
    many Japanese were also done.
    Believe it or not I agree with you here, I dont look at this situation as being discriminatory, not in the least. However when it comes to refusing service at a business only because the customer is caucasian or black that is another subject altogether. Businesses tend not to discriminate against fellow Asian's only those that dont "look" Asian.

    it is a paranoid.
    I agree here too, Japanese in these establishments that refuse service to the aformentioned "gaijin" are truly paranoid.

    btw Caster my adopted country is Japan so .......
    because you contry is so....
    You are talking about Japan here.

  15. #40
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    Businesses tend not to discriminate against fellow Asian's only those that dont "look" Asian
    sometime. we have a right to select the good customer for business, too

    and those hostess bar dont not welcome all

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obeika View Post
    One other thing here, I dont think that the average Japanese person is even aware that issues like this exist, and because of it dont really care one way or the other, probably because they are not affected by issues like this in their daily lives.
    It similar to the Japanese people that are shocked when they get refered to as "gaijin" when they travel overseas.
    Where can I meet the shocked Japanese? In your town? I think it is just a myth.
    There are places "Nihonjin-yado" (guest houses whose main customers are Japanese) around the world, but not Japanese backpackers created them, but the owners did so. And of course, we have pro & con arguments if you prefer the guesthouse or not.

    About the biometric info by the US, your wife is Japanese, right? All non-Americans have privilege. Do you think it is not discriminatory like what I think?

  17. #42
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    About the biometric info by the US, your wife is Japanese, right? All non-Americans have privilege. Do you think it is not discriminatory like what I think?
    I live in Japan, and so does my wife, this means nothing to either of us.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obeika View Post
    I live in Japan, and so does my wife, this means nothing to either of us.
    It means something, though, if the two of you should ever visit America. At that time the authorities would collect the information if I'm not mistaken.

    I'm sure you can appreciate that what I assume Pipokun doesn't like about this is the principle of the matter. What do you feel about this in terms of principles?

  19. #44
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    >Again, even anonymously on the web, the Japanese very rarely discuss or write about homosexuality<
    I think your research methods are faulty.
    Maybe it's not a big issue with the Japanese. There're many gay bars in Shinjuku where everyone is welcome (actors and actresses go there a lot) and there's even a gay TV star on prime time.
    ******
    Continuing my previous post, Japanese don't go where they're not welcome because they wouldn't feel comfortable there. They understand that they'd get poor service and might spoil the joie de vivre of other people. This in turn would spoil their own enjoyment. So it's a common sense kind of thing.
    They would say, "Shouganai," which means, "Oh well, let's find something better to do and forget about it." This is the so-called mystic Zen approach to life, very direct here and now--none of that idealistic nonsense of, "Well, where I come from we do so and so....."
    Well, if you read up to this point, thank you for your attention. I'll keep posting to try to clear up more confusion in this confusing land.

  20. #45
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    I'm sure you can appreciate that what I assume Pipokun doesn't like about this is the principle of the matter. What do you feel about this in terms of principles
    I agree, in principle, however it isn't just the USA that collects data about it's guests or citizens.

    It happens to all of us foreigners that live here in Japan as well.

    I wonder how Pipokun or others feel about that, I've never heard of a Japanese person in Japan being forced to carry any identification on themselves at all times, nor having to report to the authorities, even if one has permanent residence status here, to renew their registration card.

    >Again, even anonymously on the web, the Japanese very rarely discuss or write about homosexuality<
    I think your research methods are faulty.
    Maybe it's not a big issue with the Japanese. There're many gay bars in Shinjuku where everyone is welcome (actors and actresses go there a lot) and there's even a gay TV star on prime time.
    ******
    I'm sorry I missed this, is the bold face type a quote?
    Last edited by KirinMan; Jun 19, 2007 at 19:32. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obeika View Post
    I'm sorry I missed this, is the bold face type a quote?
    Yeah, sorry. It was a quote from one of the earliest post. I just wanted to point this guy into a more fruitful direction. (Please excuse the pun. )

  22. #47
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    Maciamo rote:
    Isn't it strange that more Japanese fear living next to an homosexual or somebody who has AIDS than a criminal ?

    Great! That is hitting the nail on the head. Looks like that so typical and fine sence of humor. Big smile!

    Sorry meant to say; Looks like a British sence of humor!!
    Last edited by Elizabeth van Kampen; Jun 24, 2007 at 16:35. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth van Kampen View Post
    Maciamo rote:
    Isn't it strange that more Japanese fear living next to an homosexual or somebody who has AIDS than a criminal ?
    Great! That is hitting the nail on the head. Looks like that so typical and fine sence of humor. Big smile!

    Sorry meant to say; Looks like a British sence of humor!!
    To be brutally honest here, outside of the "new-half" club or two that I have seen here in Okinawa, and a former boss that was a serious "flame" I dont see too many men or women that openly proclaim their sexual preferences here. It may be different in mainland, but I wonder if the "average" Japanese person would even know if they were living next to a homosexual person or couple.

    Not that it really matters as a persons sexual preferences are their own. So I also wonder why a Japanese person would fear living next to a homosexual rather than a ex-con.

  24. #49
    Regular Member Elizabeth van Kampen's Avatar
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    Never lived in Japan Obeika,
    But I am afraid you are absolute right. We had Chinese and a few Indonesians at our school in Malang, East-Java, but not one Japanese girl or boy. The Japanese children went to Japanese schools. Talking about before WWII of course. Now talking about 2007; we have many Japanese tourists in the Netherlands, especially in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. I still see them standing there sticking to themselves. There are quite some Japanese students in Amsterdam, alas they also stick to themselves.
    Can't help thinking, each time I see those Japanese tourists, asking myself: Are they paying so much money to visit the Netherlands just to take so many pictures, with faces without any expression. No smile! Just standing there in front of Amsterdam's many bridges. Are they not even a little interested in the history of all those bridges? I don't think so by the look on the faces. No there is no interest, and there is no smile, just a clicking of the camera's.

    I am not even a bit of a nationalist, my heart is still in Indonesia.
    But you know, each time I walk through Amsterdam, I realize time and again that this town is fascinating and I can't help smiling.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth van Kampen View Post
    we have many Japanese tourists in the Netherlands, especially in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. I still see them standing there sticking to themselves. There are quite some Japanese students in Amsterdam, alas they also stick to themselves.
    Can't help thinking, each time I see those Japanese tourists, asking myself: Are they paying so much money to visit the Netherlands just to take so many pictures, with faces without any expression. No smile! Just standing there in front of Amsterdam's many bridges. Are they not even a little interested in the history of all those bridges? I don't think so by the look on the faces. No there is no interest, and there is no smile, just a clicking of the camera's.
    Actually I thought that I had the same experience in Copenhagen. However, now that I understand some japanese I realize that many of the groups travelling with tourbusses are chinese and koreans. Increasingly japanese are travelling around Europe individually. Recently I made the same observation in Belgium and Holland: every time I thought that a big noisy group of asian tourist were japanese, I realised that they were not speaking japanese!

    For many of the older japanese the main problem is their lacking language skills. My mother-law is travelling with group tours to different european contries every year, however, when visiting Denmark she really enjoys travelling individually. She would certainly like to travel individually around Europe, but because of her limited language skill she does not dare to.

    The problem with tourist paying more attention to each other in their group than the historical places they visit is a universal problem regarding mass-tourism - not a particular japanese behaviour. Actually, I noticed that young japanese for some reason always smile, making "peace sign" while saying "cheesu", when having their photo taken!
    There are good and bad people everywhere

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