Is Japan a Western country ?

[Sensationalist]

You know, some people might consider that to be extremely rude.
You don't have to like the west but please be decent enough to realize when you go to far. Would you like it if I called Asia a disease? I think not.
EDIT: And if I'm not mistaken, Japan is very westernized, as I believe this had already been established.

Westernization or Westernism has always undermined the cultural, historical, and fundamental thinking of asian countries for centuries. Sure, Democracy has its merits but overall asian thought or philosophy has been around far longer and is much more refined in terms of social structure.

In Japan’s case, there was a time when westernization was good, as far back as the 17th century: schools, universal sufferage, womens rights, and so on. However, what we are seeing now is an emerging identity crisis and social degeneration in this country which has all to do with over westernization ! Everything from anime to the family nucleus has severely been compromised because of the desire to be more westernized, and or ‘free thinking’ so to speak…i.e.. anime characters have Caucasoid features; women are asserting themselves more and more and demanding greater freedom and independents from the tradition social model of the Times. (“There was really nothing wrong with the original model to begin with, but western countries ‘sell freedom’ like it’s something that should be earned when in fact all of us are born free in principle”). The traditional model of order worked very well, so to speak.

[kireikoori]

Indo-European does not just refer to language.
Though btw Sanskrit is of the Indo-European language family.

Danu of the Celtic pre-Christian faith is probably the same one of the Hindu faith.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-I...opean_religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesir-A...ence#Etymology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_india
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danu

Also, yes, Buddhism is a branch of Hinduism. Buddhism is to Hinduism as Christianity is to Judaism.

[Goldiegirl]

I kinda agree with that sentiment Doc, you put it a little more clearly!

[gaijinalways]

Buddhism is a Western religion.

Huh? The inventor was Indian, so I am not quite sure how that would make it Western.

Buddha was a Hindu. The Hindu consider him as an avatar of Vishnu.

Hawaii is sooo Japanese, at least that's what most Japanese over here in Japan think, that's why so many take vacations over there. And I said "some" people. Think about it...?

It is, but it isn't. It holds the charms of a multi-asian population with Western values (Western justice system, etc.). It's a soft landing for Japanese spouses married to Americans.

PS Goldie girl, damn, your avatar is making me dizzy. I guess you do make my world turn!

[A ke bono kane kotto]

Huh? The inventor was Indian, so I am not quite sure how that would make it Western.

They were Aryan, so from present-day Ukraine. Genetic tests have somewhat proven the migration of the Aryans to India. We can see clear genetic similarities between Northern Indians and Eastern Europeans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic...ia#R1a1_and_R2

[Han Chan]

They were Aryan, so from present-day Ukraine. Genetic tests have somewhat proven the migration of the Aryans to India.

The the migration theory have so far not been proven. Recent genetic studies show that there are some linkageges between different communities who live far from each other, but the idea of one Aryan race have been out of fashion since 1945.

The word Aryan have been tainted by the horrors of tha holocaust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

Because of historical racist use of Aryan, and especially use of Aryan race in connection with the propaganda of Nazism, the word is sometimes avoided in the West as being tainted, in the same manner as the swastika symbol. Currently, India and Iran are the only countries to use the word Aryan in a demographic denomination.

[A ke bono kane kotto]

The the migration theory have so far not been proven. Recent genetic studies show that there are some linkageges between different communities who live far from each other, but the idea of one Aryan race have been out of fashion since 1945.
The word Aryan have been tainted by the horrors of tha holocaust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

That's not the same meaning of Aryan. The Aryans are not the blond-haired Germans that Hitler talked about, but a prehistoric tribe of people from the Caucasus region. Germans and Celts are not Aryan. You should read history books rather than Mein Kampf.

[Goldiegirl]

Sorry 'bout that gaijinalways! It's cool though, but I wish it was a real picture of the earth. Ok, back on track I like your notion of Hawaii being a soft landing for Japanese spouses married to Americans. I know of one such couple that are planning to live in Hawaii because it's easier for his Japanese wife and he wants to be back in the USA.

[chin]

I dont think that Japan is western country.
And it is not right to definite it just because it is a developed country.

Southeast Asia share familiar mind even though there were conflics.
One thing is true: japan want himself to be a western country.
sometimes japan even looks down upon his Asia neibours.

Japanese government willl change their attitude someday.
...

[tokapi]

Are you referring to this ...

Japanese lack affinity towards Asians & psychologically dis-associated themselves from other East Asian folks much due to Fukuzawa Yukichi's (福澤 諭吉) concept of " Datsu-A Ron " ( 脫亞論 ).Fukuzawa Yukichi (福澤 諭吉) 著名思想家 . 日本國之哲人也。首創《脫亞論》﹐對日本國思想界﹐影響甚鉅。日本天皇尊為老師.後期,福澤蔑視亞洲各國,肯定了侵略的亞洲蔑視者的這樣的批判.His face appears on 10,000 yen Japanese banknote.

What goes around comes around,Chinese belittled ancient Japanese as 倭奴 ( derogatory term ) and now ... eh ... eh ... China 支那

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wa_(Japan)

[chin]

Yea that's what i want to say.
It's a Datsu-A Ron.

Ancient Japanese was called 倭奴 by Chinese,
China was replaced with Shina in Japanese government papers.

[tokapi]

日本右翼石原慎太郎 Shintaro Ishihara once commented, " Chinese will never understand why Japanese call China before Song Dynasty 中国 but after Song Dynasty 支那 "

Back to the thread topic ... no,Japan is not a Western country

[pipokun]

...
Japanese government willl change their attitude someday.
...

Why are there so many China towns around the world?
I don't know why the (some) Chinese people refuse to be assimilated into the society...

It is really interesting for me to find similarities among Asian cultures, but there are also differences among them.
I highly appreciate the great Chinese poets, but I think Japan did the right thing not to accept the eunuch, the zero tolerance of funeral culture against people who are not accepted in the present, or whatever.

If Shoko Asahara, a notorious terrorist under the name of religion, would do the same crime in China or Korea, he would not have the right to be buried there... I am sure that I shall never go to his tomb (if he gets death penalty), but his family has the right to do so.

[Kyoto Returnee]

Why are there so many China towns around the world?
I don't know why the (some) Chinese people refuse to be assimilated into the society...

To try on your first question, possibly because where many Chinese people reside, their is a want for own goods, food, clothing, CD's, books, etc.

I know this applies to Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Middle Eastern cultures within Australia, although not limited to Australia only.

Second, I have found Japanese people in Australia do not assimilate at all, neither do African's.

On the other hand, I find that Chinese do very much so in Australia, and without any issues at all.. Thailand is another example where it is difficult to distinguish between the two cultures as they have actully bred over the years to be fully assimilated.

We have quite a few Chinese friends coming from both mainland China and Hong Kong. I can certainly point to some who have assimilated and some who have not, including between couples.. We have friends, he is from Hong Kong, she from China, she is having problems assimilating, whilst he has been here for 18 years and calls himself an Aussie.

Chinese in Australia go back since the beginning, and we have large communities who can not speak Chinese anymore..

Japanese on the other, have not assimilated at all In Thailand.

I can only speak for these two countires as I know them well.

Do Chinese assimilate within in Japan?

If yes or no, why do think?

[Han Chan]

Do Chinese assimilate within in Japan?

If yes or no, why do think?

I think that it would not be fair to generalize. On one hand you have China Town in Yokohama - which could indicate that Chinese do not integrate. On the other hand, you have so many Chinese women who marry Japanese men, and blend in by becoming "japanese housewifes".

[Kyoto Returnee]

I think that it would not be fair to generalize. On one hand you have China Town in Yokohama - which could indicate that Chinese do not integrate. On the other hand, you have so many Chinese women who marry Japanese men, and blend in by becoming "japanese housewifes".

I disagree with both your opinions.

Having China Town doesn't mean that Chinese don't assimilate into a country, afterall, Chinese food and goods are very common internationally in most counntries around the world.

I think everytown in Australia has a Chinese restaurant..

Having said that, I am still to hear from a Japanese person if Chinese people do actually assimilate.

We have an Australian Town in Australia which proves my point..

Chinese women who "become" Japanese housewives doesn't really make much sense either on assimilation..

[chin]

支那 is from Indian in fact...

Japanese totally changed its original meaning.
It was just a name for china.
Cant you see they are familiar: shina and china.

[chin]

Hello Pipokun:
Well i agree with you partly but i insist that
Chinese culture is the very bisis of JAPAN's civilization.

And what we need to do it to learn history not to shy away
away from it. japan has developed greatly, that what we need to study.

Dont misunderstand me and if you'd like,
we can talk in Japanese or Chinese.
I am sorry i cant express myself correctly owing to my limited English.

Nice to meet you here.

[Goldiegirl]

Wow, from what I've seen Japan certainly doesn't look destroyed.

[Dogen Z]

What a long thread for a simple question. Actually, Japan is a Northeast Asian country with a Confucian based society that has incorporated many Western elements.

[pipokun]

Desecration of historic site upsets Broome
Thursday, 16 June 2005
Gravesites attacked
Broome's multicultural community is upset at a vandalism attack on the historic Japanese cemetery.
http://www.abc.net.au/kimberley/stories/s1393851.htm

a Confucian based society

Vandalism like the above is what a tyical Confucian funamentalist did in Korea or China in the past.
And revolution is one of the key ideas in Confucianism, esp., Mencius, but we had a lucky legend that ships carrying Mencius documents had sunk.
(*snip* it might be an interesting topic if the Meiji Restoration was a revolution or not).

It seems to me that a great multicultrural country like Australia which, I think, is non-Confucian should introduce the regulation like the one in the US where you cannot be politically loud in graveyards, though I bet there must be some regulations there.

Anyways, Japan is a country where stupid anti-(whatever) activists are loud when it is sunny or rainy, so I do not know why the angry young Chinese people remain calm in China now.

[kireikoori]

I just recently decided to put the word "westerner" into wikipedia and it came up with the article "Western World". And it divided the use and meanings of Western into a few categories.

The historic West is originally the Mediterranean. Or in other words Greek and Roman culture. I guess Romans and Greeks were the first people to consider themselves Western. Which would make by this definition all people of Latin culture such as the French, Spanish, Mexicans, Brazilians, Portuguese and Italians more Western than Northern European Germanic people. Also this would make Turkey very Western because of being part of the Eastern Roman Empire.

Linguistically there's the Indo-European language family. And according to wikipedia, sometimes Hebrew as well. Because of the Abrahamic influence. Also there are Uralic languages spoken in Finland, Hungary and Estonia which are all considered part of the West.
_
Japanese is a language isolate. Nobody knows for sure which language family Japanese belongs to. Though there are strong possibilities out there strongly supported by certain linguists.
* That Japanese is an Altaic language, related to the many North Asian languages. And can be extended even if further if the Ural-Altaic hypothesis is correct. That would make Japanese related to Finnish, Estonian and Hungarian. Maybe not Indo-European, but Western nonetheless. Heck, there's also the idea that Ural-Altaic languages are proto-Indo-European.
* That Japanese is part of the Eurasiatic language family, and distantly a part of the Indo-European family.
* If you consider Hebrew to be Western because of Christianity, many users have exerted similarities between Hebrew language and Japanese, claiming Japanese are part of the lost tribes of Israel. Not a well supported hypothesis among linguists, however.

Economically, being a first world country is considered Western. Japan is very high on the HDI, definitely a first world country. Heck, the Yen just surpassed the US dollar.

Politically, democracy is considered Western. Japan has become a democracy and is very anti-Communist generally. Shedding off the Fascism shared with Germany during WWII. Both countries evolving into the current political definition of Western equally.

Many consider Judeo-Christian religion to be Western. Coincidental or not, some users here have drawn similarities between Shinto and Abrahamic/Judaic religion. Again with that whole "lost tribes of Israel" thing.

In the end the East vs. West thing is a false dichotomy though. There is no such thing truly.

[Sukotto]

this is sort of a response to some things in kireikoori's post.
i'm not trying to be critical, just discuss, so i apologize if anything
sounds harsh.

you forgot Italy as being fascist.
Mussolini and fascist are practically synonymous.
while Germany too was clearly fascist, "nazism", the localized brand, & reservations, err, excuse me -
concentration camps, come to mind more readily than the f word.
(can anybody point me in the direction of some good books on WW2 era Japan & fascism. while i don't really doubt this term would apply, i more often hear the term "Japanese militarism" coupled with imperialism applying to Japan. --those two are clearly points of fascism)



"western" & "democracy"

it is a commonly held belief that "democracy" is a "western" concept.
putting aside the idea that "western" is an ideological construct to begin with,

what about the known fact that the authors of the US constitution borrowed
heavily from the Iroquois Confederacy, a grouping of 6 of N America's First Nations.
such ideas and practices have existed pre-contact with Europeans.
also, in many tribes/nations throughout the americas, the chief was not really a position that was so dominant as to be the equivalent of a king. it was rather Europeans in their thinking and/or wanting to deal with one or a small number of people that helped to contribute to the importance of a chief. --and the stressing of hierarchy, as the first settlers (the Indians) had much more egalitarian societies.

Much of this is somewhat fresh in my memory as I recently read the relevant chapters of "Lies My Teacher Told Me Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong"
by James W. Loewen "First Thanksgiving" and especially "Red Eyes" (this page has excerpts from the original 1995 edition. i am currently reading the updated 2007 edition.)

the Americas are/were only really considered "western" with regards to being settled by western Europeans. So what of the ideas of the many (still alive and living) cultures indigenous to the Americas? They are not really considered "western" and their democracy existed completely independent of ancient Greece which is touted as the birth place of "western" thought and the idea of democracy.



jokes:
maybe we only like the idea of democracy, but fail to practice it?
is "western" thought actually the idea of tricking people into believing
they are practicing benign actions?
take for example the British empire(dishonor is empire). the rulers of this society
claimed they were colonizing India in order to "civilize" the peoples living there.



lastly,
interesting that some might have drawn comparisons "between Shinto and Abrahamic/Judaic religion". I've not heard of this before and would be interested in reading them. Admittedly, I am rather naive about Shinto, but I've always heard of it compared to animist religions (not counting the state co-opted version of the Emperor and Sun Goddess, etc...). Also, I believe all religions have wisdom in them and are about peace and getting along as evidenced by the many variations of "treat others as you would have them treat you" present in almost every religion/belief system. I'm writing this because I want to put it that I am not trying to "separate" Shinto from Abrahamic/Judaic religion by placing it with other religions in some sort of artificial hu-(M)an-made hierarchy, because I believe there is much to be learned from various religions/beliefs from throughout the world, including Africa, China, East Timor, etc...

I "talk" too much. Gomenasai.

[akita]

Well geographically Japan is in north -east Asia. I guess is normal not to consider them self western. Nevertheless is also where EU place this country. according to this standard they establish economical and political cooperation. Other north-east Asian countries are China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South/north Korea . Japan is part only of ASEM (Asia-Europe meeting) so I guess is here they place themself. All other regional agreement don't include Japan so they must consider themself an north -east Asian country.

[minime]

definitely not...
1) physically located in Asia, obviously the east part;
2) having culture similar to China, the typically eastern culture; and
3) being Asian human race
Even i don't care about whether or not Japan is a western country, emotionally. I have to say no...