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Thread: Tokyo mulls ban on sex for kids

  1. #1
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Exclamation Tokyo mulls ban on sex for kids

    Asahi News : Tokyo mulls ban on sex for kids

    Tokyo plans to cool off the lusty activities of children in the capital.

    The Tokyo metropolitan government is considering an ordinance that would ban sexual intercourse among children of junior high school age and younger, officials said Wednesday.

    The ban is being discussed by a panel set up to brainstorm ways of curbing sexually transmitted diseases and abortions among minors. Officials say youngsters are ignorant of the risks of sexual activity.
    ``The purpose of setting an age limit is not to regulate but to protect children who do not know the meaning of sexual intercourse and the risks associated with it.''

    Experts at Wednesday's meeting reportedly discussed other options, including parents' responsibility to educate their children about the dangers involved with sex.
    This will also create additonal protection against "enjo kosai" (teenage prostitution), as chidlren under 15 won't be able to enter love hotels, although this is, as usual in Japan, only theoretical, as nobody checks and the love hotel staff has no eye contact with the customers when giving the room's key - and therefore cannot see how old they look like.

    I think the second reason (protecting children from STD's and undesired pregnancies) is good enough to make this new law. But the problem of enforcing it remains a major drawback. Nobody can check what happens in homes, and as I mentioned above, not even in love hotels, except if the system of anonymousness is changed.

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  2. #2
    Manga Psychic PaulTB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Well good luck enforcing that.

    The three angles on when people having sex are
    - cultural (including religious, peer pressure, media etc.)
    - biological
    - legal

    In my opinion the first two will always be more significant that the last.

    Before rushing out to blame a collapse of morals in the youth of today a closer look at the second item would probably be a good idea. There's been a clear trend to earlier 'sexual maturity' for quite a long time now - apparently related to diet although some fingers have been pointed at polution of the environment with hormonally active substances.

    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...16/ai_17863340
    http://www.babyreference.com/EarlyPuberty.htm
    http://www.007b.com/early_puberty.php

  3. #3
    Hullu RockLee's Avatar
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    I think it's a good thing...because the "sexual stereotype" is creating a lot of fuzz...And I think they should check for age at the love hotel...cause "enjo kosai" happens TOO often...there's a thread about Japan's sexual behaviour somewhere on the forum...
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  4. #4
    Go to shopping PopCulturePooka's Avatar
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    This is a good thing.

    Sure kids will still have sex, duh, but it will lessen the amount of sex and allow greater education.

    Oh I also see a difference between physical sexual maturity and mental sexual maturity. Some 18 year olds dont seem ready for sex and its consequences, let alone younger kids.

  5. #5
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirstHousePooka
    Oh I also see a difference between physical sexual maturity and mental sexual maturity. Some 18 year olds dont seem ready for sex and its consequences, let alone younger kids.
    Interestingly in Japan there doesn't seem to be much gap between physical sexual maturity and mental sexual maturity. Sometimes, you'd believe that the mental precedes the physical.

  6. #6
    Manga Psychic PaulTB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Interestingly in Japan there doesn't seem to be much gap between physical sexual maturity and mental sexual maturity. Sometimes, you'd believe that the mental precedes the physical.
    I don't know how you're defining things, but this doesn't look 'mentally sexually mature' to me.

    http://www.japanetwork.org/jnnewsl/jnnews_sep_2004.pdf

    Small quote, "The Ministry of Health and Welfare performed a sexual survey and found there were 46,000 abortions in teenagers reported last year. This is an increase of 80% in the last six years."

    "Teen pregnancy, abortion, and rates of STDs are increasing, not only in Japan, but also around the world. Japans approach to sex education is failing. It is time for the Ministry of Education to look at various successful approaches to sex education around the world, and improve how it is taught in Japan. As long as there are human beings, there will be sex. Unfortunately today many young people rely on adult videos and magazines for their sex education."

    There's much, much more information in the linked document itself.

  7. #7
    Go to shopping PopCulturePooka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Interestingly in Japan there doesn't seem to be much gap between physical sexual maturity and mental sexual maturity. Sometimes, you'd believe that the mental precedes the physical.
    You reckon?
    I dunno, seems Japanese girls in some ways are far more immature about sex than western girls.

  8. #8
    Manga Psychic PaulTB's Avatar
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    Incidently I've often seen threads making much of the 'acceptance of sex as a natural act' in Japanese culture and how, unlike the West, it didn't have the overtones of shamefulness etc. Frankly that's a load of rubbish, and sexual culture in Japan has changed massively since the end of WW II.

    Here's another quote from the same document about (past) sex education practices in Japan.

    "In postwar Japan, the Ministry of Education did not promote sex
    education very much in textbooks. The Ministrys focus was on purity
    education. Therefore, girls were only taught about their menstrual cycle.
    These classes were held in a special classroom with black curtains. Boys
    were not allowed in the room during these lessons. People probably
    thought that sex was shameful"

  9. #9
    Go to shopping PopCulturePooka's Avatar
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    Agreed with all that stuff.

    Seems theres no decent sex ed in Japanese schools from talking to students. Education and youth opinions on sex in Japan are a bit worrying to this Aussie. Honestly it could be conjectured that this is one reason why young japanese girls are precieved as 'easy' compared to western girls. They don't have as much education as to the consequences and dangers of sex. (case in point, a girl my friend picked up who actually got very angry when he insisted on condoms because it implied she had a disease WTF?).

    Regarding the belief that Paul bought up, that 'acceptance of sex as a natural act' in Japanese culture and a so called abscene of shame? Bollocks. Its obvious that this attitude isn't all prevalent when one looks at the types of porn and sexualisations available here.

    Theres also the oft mentioned very high rates of minor STD's and stuff in Japan.

  10. #10
    Manga Psychic PaulTB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirstHousePooka
    Regarding the belief that Paul bought up, that 'acceptance of sex as a natural act' in Japanese culture and a so called abscene of shame? Bollocks.
    I suspect it came from a) wishful thinking and b) that nakedness is less of a big deal in Japan. It's also the case that since around the 1980s or so (maybe before?) attitudes to sex among the young have been changing very rapidly.
    Quote Originally Posted by FirstHousePooka
    Seems theres no decent sex ed in Japanese schools from talking to students.
    Which is pretty much what that linked doc said. Incidently there's a developed country that comes out even worse than Japan on high teenage pregnancy rates, STDs and poor sex education ... the U.S.

    At least some of which can be blamed on Bush and his ilk.

  11. #11
    Go to shopping PopCulturePooka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulTB
    I suspect it came from a) wishful thinking and b) that nakedness is less of a big deal in Japan. It's also the case that since around the 1980s or so (maybe before?) attitudes to sex among the young have been changing very rapidly.
    In other words the sexual revolution was a decade behind?

  12. #12
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulTB
    I don't know how you're defining things, but this doesn't look 'mentally sexually mature' to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by FirstHousePooka
    I dunno, seems Japanese girls in some ways are far more immature about sex than western girls.
    Sorry, what I meant is 'mentally sexually mature' (psychological desire to experience sex), not intellectually mature (care about contraception or STD's). So your link about abortion is not necessary as I already knew that. Btw, abortion rates in Japan and Korea seem much higher than in Europe. I don't have the stats (which could very well have been manipulated by the Japanese government to avoid embarassment in the international community). It's usually difficult to ask people diectly if they have ever aborted, but once you have Japanese family, you get to know that in average Japanese women now in their 40's or 50's aborted 1 to 3 times in their life (!!). The reason is that pills only became legal a few years ago and are still associated with prostitution. And many Japanese are not mature enough to wear condoms (they want to feel, even if it causes an occasional abortion). So sexually matured quite early yes, intellectually mature, even late, no !

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstHousePooka
    In other words the sexual revolution was a decade behind?
    Yes. And that's interesting because the conception of marriage is not just one decade behind, but surely 4 or 5. It's funny to see that whereas sex has been freed to the same extend as in the West in the 1960 and 70's, most Japanese people still think that 1) they shouldn't live together before marriage, or at least being engaged, 2) it is unthinkable of having children without being married, 3) the purpose of marriage is before all having and raising children (love comes as a bonus), 4) the man should work and the woman should stay at home, cook, clean and care about the children.

    So why don't Japanese people change their views of marriage after/during the sexual revolution ? Today's Japanese society is consequently a kind of society the West has never experienced, where individuals are free to have (unprotected) sex without guilt or shame, but still think of marriage in a very conservative and traditional way. That has created a "love hotel" society, where people can't live together before marriage and, as they often stay with their family till they get married, can't have sex freely in their tiny homes, but are free to have sex and thus do it outside.

  13. #13
    Manga Psychic PaulTB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Sorry, what I meant is 'mentally sexually mature' (psychological desire to experience sex), not intellectually mature (care about contraception or STD's). So your link about abortion is not necessary as I already knew that.
    You're not the only person reading this thread you know.

    Also that link was about much more than abortion.

    =================================

    Anyway here's some news that I'm sure Lina Inverse will appreciate.

    "Barrier equipment must be used."

    Susan Gard of the California Division of Occupational Health and Safety, which has fined two porn film companies for allowing actors to perform without using condoms, considered illegal under state employment law that protects workers from exposure to blood or body fluids at work.

  14. #14
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulTB
    Also that link was about much more than abortion.
    Sorry, I admit not having had time to read them (now I have), but I supposed it was related to your quote above (which is mostly wasn't).

    These articles on the causes of early puberty due to 1) high consumption of cow milk, 2) detached parenting, 3) high-calorie diet, 4) higher stress-level since childhood, are very interesting.

    They mention that the average menstruation age for American girls dropped from 14 years old 100 years ago to 12,5 years old nowadays. However, they also say that Hispanic Americans had later hormonal changes, because they drink less (cow) milk and tend to sleep with their parent and receive more affection as babies (as opposed to sleeping in their own room and "crying it out"). What is interesting is that the same happens in Japan. Babies and even children (sometime until after puberty !) sleep with their mother (or both parents, or siblings). Japanese also consumme less cow milk than Westerners. Until Meiji, they didn't drink cow milk at all. Nowadays, older people still drink very little of it, but some younger people drink quite a lot of it (my wife has a cup of milk before going to bed everyday ), including in cakes, yoghurts, cheese and other derivatives.

    So could it be that those very younger generations fed on more dairy products (esp. females, who like cakes, etc.) have earlier puberty than other Japanese ?

    The second paragraph of the last article you linked (sorry can't quote), suggest that early puberty is also due to environmental oestrogens present in sunscreen lotions, babby bottles, cans, plastic wraps and most cosmetics (shampoo, nail polish, hair straightner...). That would surely explain why girls usually have the puberty earlier than boys, and especially in Japan.

    The same article also tell us that soy products (overabundant in Japan) have pythoestrogens (similar to the human female hormones) that may well have an impact on the body's hormonal development. This is extremely interesting as soy is surely one of the single most important element of the Japanese traditional diet, which could explain (I am extrapoling a lot here) why after several centuries, Japanese are more feminine than Westerners in their behaviour (avoid disagreement or confrontation, polite, soft, sociable, etc.) and ultimately even why many Japanese men have lower testosterone levels (few hairs or beard, rare case of baldness, tame behaviour...), and maybe also why Japanese girls are so much more precocious (sexually) than boys.
    Last edited by Maciamo; Sep 26, 2004 at 10:22.

  15. #15
    Danshaku Elizabeth's Avatar
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    This will also create additonal protection against "enjo kosai" (teenage prostitution), as chidlren under 15 won't be able to enter love hotels, although this is, as usual in Japan, only theoretical, as nobody checks and the love hotel staff has no eye contact with the customers when giving the room's key - and therefore cannot see how old they look like.

    I think the second reason (protecting children from STD's and undesired pregnancies) is good enough to make this new law. But the problem of enforcing it remains a major drawback. Nobody can check what happens in homes, and as I mentioned above, not even in love hotels, except if the system of anonymousness is changed.
    Is that the normal setup ? I've only been to one, in Yokohama, but the front desk there was totally open and it was no different than checking into a regular hotel.

  16. #16
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth
    Is that the normal setup ? I've only been to one, in Yokohama, but the front desk there was totally open and it was no different than checking into a regular hotel.
    No, the vast majority of (real) love hotels (in areas usually known as "love hotel hill" or such), the counter is just a hole in the wall to exchange the room ticket sold in the vending machine with the room's key. The staff can't see the customers and vice-versa, so as to assure privacy. Some love hotels have the same system with drive-in cars (directly to the hotel's underground garage), so that people in the street can't see who comes in. Good for shy people, but good too for illegal enjo kosai, or people having some affairs.

  17. #17
    Jinushi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    That would surely explain why girls usually have the puberty earlier than boys, and especially in Japan.
    I don't know about Japan, but I do know that here in the U.S., it is believed that the addition of growth hormones fed to cattle that is then passed on through their milk is the leading cause of changes in puberty in this country.

  18. #18
    Hentai Koutaishi Lina Inverse's Avatar
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    Imo this law is utter nonsense and would be a huge step into the totally wrong direction!
    They key to stop Std/preganancy among high school students is certainly not to go all prude and forbid them to have a sexuality of their own! This would, at the best, post-pone the problem only a little, because they would grow up staying just as ignorant and then still aren't the least less likely to get Std/pregnancy
    Also, as you said already, it would do nothing about enjo-kosai (which I don't see as near as bad).
    The solution would be to properly educate them about the importance of using condoms! Along with this should go publicly placed condom distributors (e.g. at the school's toilets) so they can conveniently procure condoms without having to feel ashamed over it
    I really hope they have enough sense in their heads to trash this crap quickly again!

    btw - I feel obliged to point out your wrong use of the term "child" here. A child is a person who has not yet entered the puberty. As girls (and boys) nromally enter the puberty with 14 (some already with 13), they are clearly no children anymore.
    This is also defined this way in the German law - with the age of 14, they are no children anymore, which goes along with more rights, but also more duties as well, e.g. they can now be held liable for their actions (although still somewhat limited, compared to adults) and be send to a youth penitentiary.

    So, a sex ban for kids (=implying prebubescence!) would be surely ok, but a sex ban for youths -- NO WAY!

  19. #19
    Jinushi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lina Inverse
    btw - I feel obliged to point out your wrong use of the term "child" here. A child is a person who has not yet entered the puberty. As girls (and boys) nromally enter the puberty with 14 (some already with 13), they are clearly no children anymore.
    This is also defined this way in the German law - with the age of 14, they are no children anymore, which goes along with more rights, but also more duties as well, e.g. they can now be held liable for their actions (although still somewhat limited, compared to adults) and be send to a youth penitentiary.

    So, a sex ban for kids (=implying prebubescence!) would be surely ok, but a sex ban for youths -- NO WAY!
    Well, here in America, a child would be defined as anyone under the statutory legal age limit, and it varies from state to state. But most of the time, it would be anyone under the age of 17 or 18. Hence, the statutory rape laws currently in effect. Can't speak for Japan, though. Maybe someone else can?

  20. #20
    Manga Psychic PaulTB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satori
    Well, here in America, a child would be defined as anyone under the statutory legal age limit, and it varies from state to state. But most of the time, it would be anyone under the age of 17 or 18. Hence, the statutory rape laws currently in effect. Can't speak for Japan, though. Maybe someone else can?
    It was right mess but it's changed quite a lot a few years ago.

    Now maybe someone who actually knows can join in.

    [EDIT] I found a somewhat creepy but informative site.
    http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm
    Unfortunately the information given there for Japan
    http://www.ageofconsent.com/japan.htm
    appears to be out of date but it does give an idea of what it was like just a few years ago.
    Last edited by PaulTB; Sep 26, 2004 at 16:32.

  21. #21
    Regular Member cicatriz esp's Avatar
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    Average age of US and Canadian girls entering puberty (ie getting first period) is 10-11 (i blame McDonalds et al). They are increasingly becoming sexually active at those ages. Who's to say if this is ok or not? Life is full of decisions and consequences.
    Last edited by cicatriz esp; Sep 27, 2004 at 03:57. Reason: clarify

  22. #22
    Manga Psychic PaulTB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cicatriz esp
    Average age of US and Canadian girls entering puberty is 10-11 (i blame McDonalds et al). They are increasingly becoming sexually active at those ages. Who's to say if this is ok or not?
    I say it's dangerous in the present US culture, and much the same for Japan. A significant number of US states* teach abstinence before marriage pretty much instead of sex education. By all means (attempt) to teach what is considered moral behavior - but also teach them the basics and make condoms available.

    There's often shock expressed about school children being able to get condoms - but it's just like needle exchange programs. Making clean disposable needles available to drug addicts and collecting used ones for disposal doesn't mean you WANT people to be shooting up it just means that if they are then they are less likely to be spreading AIDS and other diseases.

    * or such is my understanding.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Hero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirstHousePooka
    You reckon?
    I dunno, seems Japanese girls in some ways are far more immature about sex than western girls.
    Yes it seems they are more immature about sex.
    I've noticed though that once you get a JP GF they are more receptive to doing sexual acts then western girls are.

    News Flash: I was talking to my fiancee (she's japanese) while writing this. Told her about Americans learning sex education about 7th grade (11-12 yr olds). She was suprised about this.

    She says: 7th grade Japanese kids don't know what "sex" and "making love" are.
    The kids don't know where babies come from.
    All Japanese parents teach that baby is brought by a bird. (The stork I'm guessing, ROFL)
    When a Japanese kid wants a new brother or sister they pray to god "Please tell bird...bring baby for me.."
    And that they usually don't find out about sex until age 12-15.
    Also that Japanese want to hide sex. (She's not sure why)

    Now I'm not saying what she said is 100% true to all Japanese... but I'm sure as hell likely to believe someone from Japan, especially my fiancee.
    Must study, must study, must study...
    I forgot what I'm studying!... Oh yeah, Japanese!

  24. #24
    Where I'm Supposed to Be kirei_na_me's Avatar
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    My husband told me long ago that sex education was taught at his school. A whole 30 minutes(maybe less) worth in 12 years. That was one of the first things I asked him, because my mom has been a health/sex education/PE teacher for 30 years.

    My mom used to get her friends, both ob/gyn's, to come to school to give more in depth talks and even show the proper way to use birth control devices, but the school system put a stop to it...
    i carry your heart with me(i carry it in my heart)

  25. #25
    Banned Rukasu's Avatar
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    I also think banning sexual intercourse between people of that age isn't good.
    Giving proper sex ed. is a much better solution than banning it al.
    I feel that everyone should be able to de what he/she wants.
    If a girl wants to sleep with someone for money, I think she should be able to.
    But ONLY if she wants it herself.
    To make that choice you need to know the facts.
    And you can''t learn everything in 30 mins.
    If she thinks it's worth 'renting' her body to someone, then let her.

    If I offended someone with this post, i'm sorry.
    This is my opinion.

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