Are Japanese more hypocritical with foreigners ?

[Pachipro]

Am I missing something here or has something drastically changed in Japan? I have never felt the way some of you do in my 16 years living there and my yearly visits. Like Maciamo, I rarely met any foreigners, save for a few friends and none of my Japanese friends spoke a lick of English.

Sure, I get frustated sometimes over the "20 question" routine I get over, and over, and over again, but I've become accustomed to it. This is Japan after all and you are going to get it again and again. Get used to it.

Here are my thoughts on the subject:

For example, no later than today, as I was queuing at the supermarket cashier, the careless woman in front of me walked back and stepped on my foot. She first started a typical "ahh, suuumimaseeen !", but as she turned and saw that I was not Japanese, her voice faded before she finished her "sumimasen" and she just walked away with a strange look on her face. This has happened to me times and again.

Why was she "careless"? Isn't that a mistake that ALL people, regardless of race make? She started to apologize, but when she saw that you were a foreigner, she probably became flustered and was at a loss for words. She assumed that you didn't speak Japanese and she didn't speak another language and she more than likely, became embarrassed and didn't know what to do. That "strange look on her face" as you put it was, more than likely embarrassment. It will happen to you again and again.

First, when I mentioned that to my wife or some Japanese friends, I heard "excuses" such as "they think you don't understand Japanese because you are a foreigner", or the like. But these are really just (prejudiced) excuses.

They are right. Why must they always be "prejudiced" excuses? Why must you assume that because she was probably flustered that their excuses to you were prejudiced? And why do you think they are "excuses"? They are probably telling you the truth.

At the place near my house where I usually buy my bento, and have been going for 3 years, the staff (you should know m by then), still hardly says anything to me and when they have run out of one kind of bento, make signs crossing fingers and speaking in strange Japanese as if I couldn't understand. They have heard me speak fluent Japanese with my wife, and could not possibly not remember me, but still act in such prejudiced ways (while I always speak Japanese with my Japanese friends, and the have no problem understanding me at all).

Have you tried addressing them first like, "Good morning. Nice day today isn't it? I hope it doesn't rain today." Do you have a conversation with them everytime you go in there? I did at the places I used to frequent for dinner and such and I was always treated the same as other Japanese customers. I never felt any different. And here again you say they "...still act in such prejudiced ways." Again the word prejudice pops in. Why?

The worst is when those kind of shop's staff thank the previous (Japanese) customer with "arigoto gozaimaashitaaa, mata okoshi kudasaimaseee" then when it is my turn, they just don't say anything or mumble a quick and dry "arigato gozaimass" as if they were angry.

Again, why assume that if they don't say anything or mumble a quick arrigato that they may be angry or treating you different? Can it not be that they are shy or flustered when it comes to dealing with foreigners? Again, why not engage them in conversation each and every time?

This week again, as I was riding my bike at lunchtime in crowded central Tokyo, a police car stopped with the policeman rushing toward me and asking if that was my bicycle and checked the registration number. There were other bicycles around, so my intentionally stop me for no reason. That is very embarassing in front of hundreds of people (and made me come late to my appointment, as it took a few minutes).

Look, you are a foreigner in Japan, and like myself, you will be stopped now and again on your bicycle and asked for proof of ownership, etc. Foreigners, as well as Japanese, are known to steal bicycles. Hell, I even stole one out of frustration one night when no cab refused to pick me up. I will post that story shortly. Why assume that because they stopped you they were prejudice? It's their job to stop foreigners on bicycles. It never bothered me when I found out why they stopped me. It's just a fact of life there for foreigners.

The policeman was also surprised that I spoke so well Japanese and asked me if I had lived for over 10 years in Japan. Again that is very prejudiced to think that foreigners can't speak decent Japanese just after a few years's stay (or maybe because he couldn't do the same in English).

Again, I am just amazed that you use the word prejudice again. Why assume that because he asked you if lived there over 10 years that he is prejudiced? Can't you say "I think it's very prejudiced..." instead of "..that is very prejudiced.." Why make a blanket statement like that? He is more than likely surprised and impressed, as the Japanese find that any foreigner who can speak their language fluently must have lived in Japan a very long time as the Japanese themselves find it very difficult for them to learn a foreign language. When the police stopped me and found out that I also was fluent, I was usually treated with respect and I never felt that they were prejudiced just because they asked me how long I lived in Japan.

But taking things a step further, I'd like to say that the attitude of many Japanese toward foreigners is very different from the one they use between themselves. When the "foreigner" is a "customer/guest" (kyaku-san) and people treat him/her even better than they would treat a Japanese, with lots of blatant flattery (sometimes annoyingly so, like the fake expression of amazement at how well a gaijin can use chopsticks or eat sushi - which in fact conceals a deep-rooted cultural prejudice that foreigners are inferior to Japanese).

Here we go again with a blanket statement of "-which in fact conceals a deep-rooted cultural prejudice that foreigners are inferior to Japanese." Do you know this to be a fact? Or are you just assuming again? Can't you understand and accept that the Japanese will always flatter you with your use of chopsticks, or the fact that you eat sushi, or sleep on a futon, or can speak Japanese and read kanji? They are genuinely impressed because most foreigners DON"T or CAN'T. It is not a "fake expression of amazement". It is real. Sure it can be annoying, but I came to accept the fact that it will happen again and again and again and again. Just because they do it, it does not mean they are prejudice unless you know something I don't.

But when the foreigner is not a "kyaku-san" or reluctantly so (esp. in small shops), we can see how this was really hypocrisy, as this time the gaijin is treated like a weird animal and not even like a standard Japanese customer.

Another blanket statement. It is not hypocrisy. You may want to feel like you were treated like some weird animal, but I am sure you did not receive the same treatment in all stores in your own country, just I do not here. I may have been treated with a little aloofness now and then in a Japanese store, but I did not feel like I was a weird animal. I knew it to be out of frustration or embarrassment at not being able to speak the foreigners language.

One chooses to feel how one wants to feel and if one wants to feel like one is always being prejudiced against, or being treated like some weird animal, or that no one likes you because one is a foreigner, then that is one's right. But take it from me, with over 30 years experience with Japan and the Japanese, I think you are way off the mark with your blanket observations and statements as I have never felt the way you do. Don't get me wrong here, in some instances I was angry, or upset, or thought "Oh no, here we go again with the praise and questions." But I have learned to understand why and accepted it without thinking that the Japanese are prejudice or hypocrits, because in my opinion they are not. Sure you have your typical few who do not like foreigners under any circumstance, but it is the same in any country I think.

How do I know this? Because I have many Japanese friends who do not speak English and have never been to a foreign country and have asked numerous Japanese over and over again why are they are so amazed at foreigners who know their language and customs. Why are we always praised for our use of chopsticks and such? Why is it that some Japanese refuse to acknowledge in a store that we are speaking Japanese and the answer is always the same: "We are so impressed when a foreigner learns our language and customs that we must say something as it is very difficult for us to do the same. (Translation:mental block) We sometimes are so tuned in to the fact that 99% of the foreigners that we do meet (which is not often) cannot speak Japanese that we sometimes do not hear that they are speaking Japanese. (Mental block again) If we encounter one, we become so embarrassed, shy, or flustered, that we do not know what to do so we say nothing or something real quick and leave." Thus the lady who stepped on your foot, the policeman who was surprised at your Japanese, the constant praise you get for something as so simple as using chopsticks.

Me, I've learned to live with it and go with the flow because I know it will happen again. Just look at the "gaijin tarento" on TV. They get the same questions and praise.

You run a great place here Maciamo and my hat is off to you, but I do hope you come to look at Japan and the Japanese like a glass of water that is half full instead of half empty.

[wendygirljp]

It does appear that cultural perception seems to be colored by age. For what I see, the younger the average message sender, the quicker one is to call "prejudice", instead of realizing cultural differentiation and relativity.

Yes, one can find sites on youtube, for example, which shows the "overwhelming hatred" of foreigners in Japan. Nothing like taking a small minority of acts/situations and making them the norm.

Like in any group, the 3% rule applies - 3% of the group are the radicals and make 97% of the noise. This also goes with those posting here, of course.

Japan, like ANYWHERE, has its great points and "not so great" points. It depends on which you prefer to see and which you may filter out. Please do not let your fears get in the way of your perceiving people accurately.

[gaijinalways]

For what I see, the younger the average message sender, the quicker one is to call "prejudice", instead of realizing cultural differentiation and relativity.

Interesting statement. So since Japan signed the UN agreement and they still haven't (some time later)made any discrimination law(s) that is because;

discrimination is not a big problem here (stated by one elder politician)

we're still studying the problem (and waiting for the comfort women to die too)

HIS was charging higher prices for foreigners

Like in any group, the 3% rule applies - 3% of the group are the radicals and make 97% of the noise. This also goes with those posting here, of course.

I challenge the 3% rule. I can count a much larger percentage of people who at best are just ignorant or will tell you they can't trust Chinese, black people, etc. When you ask when they have dealt with such a person, they quite often answer never, my grandfather, etc.. told me about them or even better, all Japnese know that. Amazing what they 'all' must know!

[Alucardqueen]

I'm really glad I found this site! Like many other people I always dreamed about going to Japan so I wanted to learn more about it so as not to look foolish when I did go. I was under the impression that they were a nice helpful clean and high-tech people. Although most of them do sound to be all of those things. Really I should have thought more clearly about it. They are like another people after all; they have their faults to just like we all do.

I didn’t think they were racist though? How sad...I feel almost as if I should not go if they hate people like me or my country... It doesn’t help that I'm female, sounds like from what was said earlier in this forum that they don’t have high aspirations for women either...so really not looking good for a little white female that wants to live there someday. Didn’t someone say earlier that they don't like democracy on top of it? Hmmm...Maybe, not sure. I’m still gunna try and go there though despite it all! What does everyone else think about it?


P.S.I apologize if anything I said was rude or out of line. I don't mean to hurt anyone of course! I just wanted some answers. Sorry.

[uchimizu]

I would add to this that perception of discrimination really depends from your personal context, and how secure you feel about your position in Japan.

I remember that when I was in a delicate situation at my job in Tokyo, I really saw discrimination everywhere (having the impression people were looking at me strangely in the subway ...). Then, I moved back to Europe, and came back to Japan as a tourist, and I felt much more relaxed. At that time, I did not feel there was discrimination anywhere.

Anyways, just my 5 cents...

It does appear that cultural perception seems to be colored by age. For what I see, the younger the average message sender, the quicker one is to call "prejudice", instead of realizing cultural differentiation and relativity.
Yes, one can find sites on youtube, for example, which shows the "overwhelming hatred" of foreigners in Japan. Nothing like taking a small minority of acts/situations and making them the norm.
Like in any group, the 3% rule applies - 3% of the group are the radicals and make 97% of the noise. This also goes with those posting here, of course.
Japan, like ANYWHERE, has its great points and "not so great" points. It depends on which you prefer to see and which you may filter out. Please do not let your fears get in the way of your perceiving people accurately.