Teenagers banned from Internet cafes in China

[nurizeko]

As I know this stipulation was implemented several years ago,
and it has nothing to do with political suppression.
teenagers are often addicted to internet and play truant,
so they were only allowed to go to internet bar at holiday.
if they choose to access internet at home, their tutor can
easily supervise them.
And from this thread I know how China be demonized
China now has 110 millions of netizen(almost the same as
Japanese total population) and 64% of them use Broad Band,
no one can "control" this huge people and digital flow.
I'm not a communist lover, I just want you understand China
objectively.

I highly doubt that statistic of chinese users, but if its true, your country is still highly restrictive on internet access.

China certainly isnt as bad as the mao era but, people still go missing, prisons are still harsh, pro-democracy is still crushed, i really do feel its just a general ignorance of how much freedom other countries have.

China can be the richest most powerful country in the world, ide still rather live in my scottish backwater with all my freedoms intact.

Though from stories of asian kids dying after insane gaming marathons, i dont question that it seems more addictive to asian kids then western thing...i think its a consiquence of the culture though, american-asians dont seem as badly effected by it.

[Supervin]

I highly doubt that statistic of chinese users, but if its true, your country is still highly restrictive on internet access.

There are actually 134 million Net users in China, and counting, FYI.

Internet access is not at all restrictive in China.

It's just that there is this massive firewall implemented on the Internet in China by the Communist Government, and recently, with both Microsoft and Google in China supporting and maintaining this. (I won't even begin to go into the lack of moral scrupples by multinational corporations and their double standards.) Topics and blogs related to democracy, Taiwan, Falun Gong and Tiananmen are screened out.

[Ma Cherie]

I also wouldn't rule out the possibility of hackers in China. I mean, if those teens want to find out about something there will be a way for them to do it. And how effective is this so-called internet police I've been hearing about?

[nurizeko]

There are actually 134 million Net users in China, and counting, FYI.

Does that count those with their own computer and own internet connection or simply anyone who can waltz into an internet cafe?

Anyway i dont doubt the chinese government keeps a tight grip on the internet, un-checked it would lead to crazy thnigs like independent thought and progressive political philosophy and you know, the sort.

[gs001]

There are actually 134 million Net users in China, and counting, FYI.

My figure was quoted at China internet network information center(CNNIC)
so it is more accurate.

Tell that to the students butchered in Tiananmen Square a few years ago.

I myself participated in democratic movement in 1989.6.4
But things have changed, no one interested in political struggle now,
Today's Chinese people only fight for a wealthy life,
such as houses, cars, and travel aboard ......
and communist also changed a lot, if you don't take real action to overthrow communist, you will enjoy all the freedom that democratic
country enjoy(I believe anyone who has been to China will confirm this).
so if you want to convince an ordinary Chinese that he is under
political suppression, he will laugh at you.

=======
nurizeko: you'd better live in your scottish backwater, read
all the negative news about China and pretend that you know China
very much.

[ArmandV]

But things have changed, no one interested in political struggle now

communist also changed a lot, if you don't take real action to overthrow communist, you will enjoy all the freedom that democratic
country enjoy

To be honest, I think it is because the people there are too scared to do anything because they know what'll happen.

Perhaps as the old hardliners die off, things will change for the better. I wish you well.

[gs001]

To be honest, I think it is because the people there are too scared to do anything because they know what'll happen.
Perhaps as the old hardliners die off, things will change for the better. I wish you well.

you mean Chinese people suffer from political threat everyday?
Your media or your government told you that?
Chinese people now worry about unemployment, high housing price,
high price medical treatment, high tuition fee......
Now we can see your government's propaganda is more powerful than communist propaganda and that propaganda makes you misconstrue other country.
Maybe that is why at all time American consider themself always right

[Ma Cherie]

you mean Chinese people suffer from political threat everyday?
Your media or your government told you that?
Chinese people now worry about unemployment, high housing price,
high price medical treatment, high tuition fee......
Now we can see your government's propaganda is more powerful than communist propaganda and that propaganda makes you misconstrue other country.
Maybe that is why at all time American consider themself always right

I think that alot of Americans are still under the impression that China is one of the most Communistic (if that's a word ) countries on the planet. Many people here don't know that with all the economic changes that are happening in China there are some political changes that taking place that we don't even know about. I for one, don't believe the China is Communist, I mean censoring certian sites and information doesn't make a country Communist. I mean, you hear people say "oh in China those people virtually have not freedom" but I think with all the economic changes taking place, these old ideas of Communism and Maoism are being challenged.

[Supervin]

Many people here don't know that with all the economic changes that are happening in China there are some political changes that taking place that we don't even know about.

About economic changes, sure, ever since the Open Door Policy was announced under Deng Xiaoping's rule. It's a far cry from what it was like from the start under Mao's regime.

Regarding political changes, it really depends on what aspect and which time period you're referring to. You could say that there has been a number of political changes in the past decade in respect to the administration and various policies when comparing Jiang Zemin's rule and now, Hu Jintao's rule. However, the general way of management politically is still very similar and hasn't changed much.

I for one, don't believe the China is Communist, I mean censoring certian sites and information doesn't make a country Communist. I mean, you hear people say "oh in China those people virtually have not freedom" but I think with all the economic changes taking place, these old ideas of Communism and Maoism are being challenged.

True, China isn't Communist in the sense of the political ideology, where nowadays, according to the economic policies alone, Communism is just a label.

But China's society is still socialist due to Communism and its authoritarian characteristics of it are intact.

Nevertheless, on the face of it, if you ever visit China's prosperous cities like Beijing and Shanghai, it would look nothing like a 'Communist country'. In fact, it would look very metropolitan like Singapore or Tokyo because of the open economic policies. People would have to look very closely or live there for some time to see the stark political differences.

[Supervin]

I myself participated in democratic movement in 1989.6.4

As far as I'm concerned, the people who took part in June 4th have had a taste of brutal suppression by the CCP through witnessing or falling victim to it. It seems that you aren't in the slightest way affected by it, which makes your claim dubious.

But things have changed, no one interested in political struggle now,
Today's Chinese people only fight for a wealthy life,
such as houses, cars, and travel aboard ......

Tell that do the peasants and villagers who have undergone substantial injustice due to frequent corruption, who then get beaten and dragged away when they come all the way to Beijing to report their case.

Tell that to those who come in conflict with Party officials only to be suppressed either by violence or have their livelihoods taken away.

People are not 'interested', because they are powerless under this authoritarian regime.

and communist also changed a lot, if you don't take real action to overthrow communist, you will enjoy all the freedom that democratic
country enjoy(I believe anyone who has been to China will confirm this).
so if you want to convince an ordinary Chinese that he is under
political suppression, he will laugh at you.

How have the Government changed a lot in any way of managing things? Corruption is still rampant. Justice is still not being served to people who bring claims - those who have money or Party connections get their way. There is still a great lack of human rights, not to mention torture is still being used often.

And when the heck have people ever enjoyed freedoms like democracy? If they have, then they should have elected their Prime Minister.

It seems that you haven't the slightest clue on political matters in China. But hey, how can you possibly know, when you have State-controlled television, State-controlled newspapers and State-controlled propaganda?

[ArmandV]

As far as I'm concerned, the people who took part in June 4th have had a taste of brutal suppression by the CCP through witnessing or falling victim to it. It seems that you aren't in the slightest way affected by it, which makes your claim dubious.

You're right. He does seem too nonchalant about June 4th to be taken seriously.

[gs001]

As far as I'm concerned, the people who took part in June 4th have had a taste of brutal suppression by the CCP through witnessing or falling victim to it. It seems that you aren't in the slightest way affected by it, which makes your claim dubious.

There are 1 million of Beijing citizens participated in that democratic movement, you mean all of them were sent to jail?
I was in west Changan street that night and saw communist tank
rush to Tiananmen square, my brother was in Tiananmen square, but
in the morning they were driven out of the square.

Tell that do the peasants and villagers who have undergone substantial injustice due to frequent corruption, who then get beaten and dragged away when they come all the way to Beijing to report their case.
Tell that to those who come in conflict with Party officials only to be suppressed either by violence or have their livelihoods taken away.
People are not 'interested', because they are powerless under this authoritarian regime.
How have the Government changed a lot in any way of managing things? Corruption is still rampant. Justice is still not being served to people who bring claims - those who have money or Party connections get their way. There is still a great lack of human rights, not to mention torture is still being used often.
And when the heck have people ever enjoyed freedoms like democracy? If they have, then they should have elected their Prime Minister.
It seems that you haven't the slightest clue on political matters in China. But hey, how can you possibly know, when you have State-controlled television, State-controlled newspapers and State-controlled propaganda?

that is economic conflict, not political conflict.
I agree China has a long way to go to become a so called
"harmonious society"
but there is a debate of equity and efficiency in China.
someone think if you want fast growth, you have to sacrifice equity.
someone think equity is the top concern,
I don't know who is right.

Anyway I'm not a communist spokesman, I just show you my view of
that ginat country.
if you just look at it's dark side, it is a hell
if you just look at it's bright side, it is a heaven
Maybe we should balance the two.

[Supervin]

There are 1 million of Beijing citizens participated in that democratic movement, you mean all of them were sent to jail?
I was in west Changan street that night and saw communist tank
rush to Tiananmen square, my brother was in Tiananmen square, but
in the morning they were driven out of the square.
that is economic conflict, not political conflict.

I never said anything about all of the demonstrators going to jail.

It would seem that you aren't politically concerned about the Government despite that you and your brother were at June 4th, witnessing the bloodshed and killing.

I agree China has a long way to go to become a so called
"harmonious society"
but there is a debate of equity and efficiency in China.
someone think if you want fast growth, you have to sacrifice equity.
someone think equity is the top concern,
I don't know who is right.

I've heard of this debate before and I personally think that it's rather pointless.

First of all, equity and efficiency aren't mutually exclusive; there is no reason why you can have one, but not the other.

In fact, equity accelerates 'efficiency', i.e. growth. This is because equity serves as a crucial foundation for stability and security in society. If people can have their equity and rights, they will be satisfied and have faith in the Government.

On the other hand, without equity, the society is unstable from all the hate from the injustice, lack of faith in the Government and no confidence as to what will happen tomorrow. If this happens, then the society is like a dormant volcano just waiting to erupt one day, causing disaster.

Without equity, 'efficiency' is only temporary and premature. When that volcano erupts, all that 'efficiency' is gone and wasted. In other words, when people cannot stand it any longer, protests, revolutions, civil wars will break out. When that happens, the society and country are in ruins needing to be rebuilt all over again.

But even if the Communist Party understood this concept, they won't grant people equity. Why? Because they lose their grip on their authoritarian power and can no longer be 'king' and do whatever they please anymore.

if you just look at it's dark side, it is a hell
if you just look at it's bright side, it is a heaven
Maybe we should balance the two.

Sure, but you cannot ignore problems. How you view them personally, as 'heaven or hell' or something else, is your business.

[gs001]

I never said anything about all of First of all, equity and efficiency aren't mutually exclusive; there is no reason why you can have one, but not the other.
In fact, equity accelerates 'efficiency', i.e. growth. This is because equity serves as a crucial foundation for stability and security in society. If people can have their equity and rights, they will be satisfied and have faith in the Government.
On the other hand, without equity, the society is unstable from all the hate from the injustice, lack of faith in the Government and no confidence as to what will happen tomorrow. If this happens, then the society is like a dormant volcano just waiting to erupt one day, causing disaster.
Without equity, 'efficiency' is only temporary and premature. When that volcano erupts, all that 'efficiency' is gone and wasted. In other words, when people cannot stand it any longer, protests, revolutions, civil wars will break out. When that happens, the society and country are in ruins needing to be rebuilt all over again.
But even if the Communist Party understood this concept, they won't grant people equity. Why? Because they lose their grip on their authoritarian power and can no longer be 'king' and do whatever they please anymore.
Sure, but you cannot ignore problems. How you view them personally, as 'heaven or hell' or something else, is your business.

You are right politically
Suppose, you plan to build a super highway and must go through a
village, villagers refuse to move.
Communist will order police or even army to force them leave.
In democratic society things will be different, demonstration
after demonstration, communication after communication, endless argy-bargy.......
That is why when communist China already owned 35 thousands km
of super highway, rank the second in the world,
and some so called democratic country only owned their highway
in blueprint.
Do you know the Three Gorges dam--the world largest dam,
To build this dam, hundreds of thousands residents had to
leave their home and immigrated to other place.
I believe in so called democratic country this dam will never build.
of course volcano is preparing for erupt if communist keep on doing
like that, I hope communist change their behavour gradually.

And not counting the ones dressed with plain clothing.

You mean when a Chinese citizen goes out to do something, there
must be a secret police follow him? good idea, from now on,
China will no dacoity, no rape, no ripoff, no swindle......
unfortunately, things seem just on the contrary.

[gs001]

I was visiting my gf's family in China and we passed some religious people handing out flyer. I decided to take one but my gf quickly pulled me away saying that there are people watching. Back at her family's I went on internet just to find out I can't access several political, news sites I used to go on in Canada. After dinner me and my gf's father started talking about politics. He had to warn me not to tell other's what we discuss and just keep them to ourselves even before we have started discussing anything. While out shopping with my gf, I've never seen so many police and military personnel on street. I am used to seeing maybe one or two cops at most a day in Canada and all those authority presense makes me feel like the country is in war or something.

I have been to Shanghai and I
"I've never seen so many police and military personnel on street"
too

[godppgo]

I have been to Shanghai and I
"I've never seen so many police and military personnel on street"
too

And not counting the ones dressed with plain clothing.

[godppgo]

I was visiting my gf's family in China and we passed some religious people handing out flyer. I decided to take one but my gf quickly pulled me away saying that there are people watching. Back at her family's I went on internet just to find out I can't access several political, news sites I used to go on in Canada. After dinner me and my gf's father started talking about politics. He had to warn me not to tell other's what we discuss and just keep them to ourselves even before we have started discussing anything. While out shopping with my gf, I've never seen so many police and military personnel on street. I am used to seeing maybe one or two cops at most a day in Canada and all those authority presense makes me feel like the country is in war or something.

Also, I had a chance to visit HK while I was in China. The moment I crossed the China-HK border checkpoint I can feel an immediate change in atmosphere. Propoganda billboards are replaced by election billboards. Religious billboards and signs were out there which are virtually non-existence in China. The two regions are only separated by a fence and the difference in political environment is huge.

[Mahoujin Tsukai]

There are actually 134 million Net users in China, and counting, FYI.
Internet access is not at all restrictive in China.
It's just that there is this massive firewall implemented on the Internet in China by the Communist Government, and recently, with both Microsoft and Google in China supporting and maintaining this. (I won't even begin to go into the lack of moral scrupples by multinational corporations and their double standards.) Topics and blogs related to democracy, Taiwan, Falun Gong and Tiananmen are screened out.

When I was on vacation in Beijing & Shanghai, I could not access Wikipedia from the hotel room and internet cafes . All I got was a 'page not found' error. At that time, I also had a slight fear that someone was going to tap my shoulder and 'ask me some questions' as I surfed the net.