Should all Japanese directly address foreigners in Japanese ?

[lexico]

From what I can make of these threads, I think the question should be changed into should the japanese stop assuming that foreigners are stupid ? ;)

Well, you obviously hit it on the nail for the accuser, so to speak. But at the same time it sounds a little unfair for the accused somehow.

What makes me say this is the importance I put on member Hiroyuki Nagashima's vote for the first poll option. From his many posts that I have read with keen interest, I find nothing but respect for any foreigner on this forum; actually even more than that. This to me is a cultural characteristic of Japan: to go out of one's way by using jestures for the sole purpose of preventing any embarassment on the foreigner's part.

Using gestures can be very self-humiliating for the Japanese (is it true? this also needs to be verified) ; but they do it anyway for the benefit of the foreigner who is the guest, who deserves, in the mind of each individual Japanese person, the greatest respect.

How gestures are interpreted in general, and what each gesture means in each particular context can vary widely across different cultures. I don't know the details of it; perhaps someone can fill in, but I feel that this difference should be addressed before making a sweeping judgement from a Eurocentric point of view.

[Elizabeth]

This to me is a cultural characteristic of Japan: to go out of one's way by using jestures for the sole purpose of preventing any embarassment on the foreigner's part.

Using jestures can be very self-humiliating for the Japanese (is it true? this also needs to be verified) ; but they do it anyway for the benefit of the foreigner who is the guest, who deserves, in the minds of each individual Japanese person, the greatest respect.

I had never stopped to think about the implication of gestures like this because I've never had to use them as a substitute for the language. But it is an interesting idea. The second most embarrassing scenario (or offensive/ exasperating, for those Japanese that resent any attempts to learn their language, particuarly when it becomes too good) is for foreigners to struggle with their grammar and vocabulary in front of Japanese speakers more familiar with English (pronunciation is not such an issue if things can be written down or repeated). Which is why you rarely hear it initiated on their side -- most will wait to see how much the other person can understand, if anything, first.

There isn't any controvery about English or other speakers working on a few emergency words and phrases for the sake of modesty and goodwill, but at least in the beginning they will likely be stopped very quickly and asked for the English version. Even those few truly interested in practicing, unfortunately....and even very close Japanese friends can still be embarrassed at having to say 'I don't understand.'

[Maciamo]

Using gestures can be very self-humiliating for the Japanese (is it true? this also needs to be verified) ; but they do it anyway for the benefit of the foreigner who is the guest, who deserves, in the mind of each individual Japanese person, the greatest respect.

I don't buy that. See my reply about the dry cleaning and bento-ya above. Why would they insist on not speaking to me, when they know I can speak and understand Japanese ?

I think the real reason is that the Japanese are uncomfortable with the idea that foreigners can learn their language so quickly, while they were taught (by "the group") that Japanese was so unique, difficult and superior, and that only the superiorly intelligent Japanese race could master such the language of the kami. They might not know it consciously, but deep inside them it is what motivates them to act as described in this whole thread.

The Japanese only realised that their system, culture and language was not superior to others after the burst of the Bubble in 1990. They only slowly start realising that their education system sucks, that they are mostly unique for not being able to learn foreign languages as well as people in Europe, India or (to their utter embarassment) in neighbouring Korea. There is now a new national complex of Japan as a (relative) failure. Politicians are only more corrupted than in Japan in third-world countries, the economy has been going down for 15 years (which developed country can boast half as much ?) and the vast majority of the Japanese are so completely ignorant of the rest of the world that they would still think that Japan is unique for having 4 seasons or sending New Year greeting cards ( ).