Are Japanese more hypocritical with foreigners ?

[ragedaddy]

Man, it drives me nuts when I'm asked, "Do you have this in America?" when it's something obviously not from Japan. Especially words, like "virus."
(Rolls eyes.....)
I've compiled a list of things I've been asked if are in America....
1. 4 seasons
2. convenience stores
3. Disney Land
4. Snoop and Winnie the Pooh
The list goes on.....

Yeah, here goes the strangest thing I have ever heard a Japanese ask a foreigner, it comes from one of my buddy's homestay Brother.... Do all Americans own a gun, and have you ever shot someone? I have been asked that a couple times as well, if all Americans carry around guns. That is utterly lunacy at it's finest. I know a lot of US news that makes it to Japan is related to violence, murder, and other negative aspects, but to contemplate that everyone in the US has guns is ludicrous.

I agree with Maciamo's point to a certain extent. When I was living in Tokyo I noticed too that many of the tenins' would give the formal greetings to Japanese customers, but when it came to me I'm lucky that I got a Doumo. However, it seemed like the majority of these people who displayed the lack of politeness to me tended to be older. Although, there have been many times where younger aged workers would actually be polite to me as they would to any other Japanese person. I remember this one time when older guy rang my stuff up, and after I received it I told him "arigatou gozaimasu," and the guy forced out a muttered "doumo." Therefore, with my experience I have noticed younger people are likely to be more respectful than older generations. This is what I gathered from living there, but who knows that's just my opinion.

I think that some reasons of people asking me like, "You can actually use chop sticks," or "You can speak Japanese," comes from the fact that there are many Japanese who have never been exposed much to Western cultures. In my opinion, it seems that some people tend to be a little more "Naive," than ignorant. It may seem insulting to Westerners, but I think there are Japanese people that have never fathomed the concept of Westerners actually being able to do such tasks.

[lexico]

However, it seemed like the majority of these people who displayed the lack of politeness to me tended to be older. Although, there have been many times where younger aged workers would actually be polite to me as they would to any other Japanese person......Therefore, with my experience I have noticed younger people are likely to be more respectful than older generations.

Very interesting you say that, ragedaddy.
I've been wondering:
Why are most of the Japanese I've met in school so cheerful, polite, easy to get along, mature, (mutually) respectful, and absolutely without obvious prejudice, whereas quite a few of the aged people I've met are often rude, illogical, stubborn, and "child like."

Your observation solves some of my long-held mystery about the strange differences I've seen.

But then again, young American's were so much more natural and friendly than some of my older neighbors who seemed starkly prejudiced if not racist.

EDIT: seemed shoud be acted

[Maciamo]

Therefore, with my experience I have noticed younger people are likely to be more respectful than older generations.

That is true to a certain extend, but there are also older people polite and respectful to foreigners (esp. if they have had contacts with other foreigners before), and young people that are downright racists (I have had a few yakuza-like men shouting at me in the streets as I was quietly riding my bicyle). I have also noticed than young teenagers and especially children tend to be more insulting toward foreigners. It is not that they stare, point their finger and giggle (like bad-mannered children do all around the world), but listenning to their remarks, you can see how their parents or environment has already instilled them prejudice against foreigners.

For example, the other day a 10-year-old or so boy was near my house when I came back home (I think his grandmother lives in that street), but he kept looking at me with suspicious eyes and followed me till my doorsteps. He asked 2 or 3 times with a contemptful voice "nani shiteru no ?" ("what are you doing here ?"). So, as I was going to open my door, I turned to him and replied politely "koko ni sundeimasu" ("I live here"), and he just said in a surprised and still suspicious way "nihongo dekiru no ?" ("oh, can you speak Japanese ?") and he ran away. I could feel that he was not the kind of boy happy to me a foreigner, but at the contrary looked at me as if I was a criminal.

I think that some reasons of people asking me like, "You can actually use chop sticks," or "You can speak Japanese," comes from the fact that there are many Japanese who have never been exposed much to Western cultures.

That's not true. It's impossible not to be exposed to Western culture everyday in Japan. Most movies at the theatre and many movies and series on TV are Western (while there are virtually no Japanese or Asian movies showing in Western countries). There are so many Westerners in Tokyo that it is impossible to take the subway without seeing one. Then with tens of thousands of NOVA, AEON, GEOS and other language schools where teachers are all native speakers (so foreigners), and millions of Japanese attending these classes (even if just a few times), there is a much higher chance that the average Japanese has already met, talked to or at least observed Westerners on TV many times, rather than the average Westerner having met a Japanese (except those living near very touristical spots).

In my opinion, it seems that some people tend to be a little more "Naive," than ignorant. It may seem insulting to Westerners, but I think there are Japanese people that have never fathomed the concept of Westerners actually being able to do such tasks.

These are fake excuses. I know many Japanese people who have lived in Western countries and still ask such dumb questions. Even the Japanese who were introduced to me by a Western friend (and thus having at least one Western friend) still ask these routine questions. Maybe its' just a custom of greeting foreigners in Japan to ask them if they can eat natto or sushi and if they can, try to ask for other kind of food until there is one sort of Japanese food the foreigner cannot eat. But I can feel that they want to be unique and want the "foreigner" to appear inferior for not being able to do such simple everyday things as eating such or such food, using chopsticks or reading kanji (when in fact many Japanese are not very proficient themselves).

Last week, as I was substituting a group English class and reading an English/Japanese article, a 50ish woman seemed very surprised that I could read the kanji for such "difficult" terms as pledge (公約), catastrophe (大災害) or refugee (難民), although these are all pretty basic kanji. When I hesitated for the first kanji of a word (援助資金 : relief fund), she said "aah, anshin shita yo !" ("aah, I feel better now !") as she just couldn't accept the fact that a foreigner could read Japanese after staying only 3 years in Japan. I could feel that deep inside this person wanted to feel like the Japanese were superior to the rest of the world. It didn't help when she proudly said a few minutes later that, "the news on TV said that Australia had pledged the largest relief fund for the Tsunami victims, but in fact it was Japan that had already donated the highest sum so far, and that Japan was the biggest donor in the world". I had to correct her that it was actually the EU (but she didn't seem very happy by that truth).

[Ewok85]

I have also noticed than young teenagers and especially children tend to be more insulting toward foreigners. It is not that they stare, point their finger and giggle (like bad-mannered children do all around the world), but listenning to their remarks, you can see how their parents or environment has already instilled them prejudice against foreigners.

...and the other stuff...

This is a mixed bag, you can be sitting on a train and some young child will sit and stare at you (and I'll make faces back, its only fair ) and thats OK, I can definitely understand it in Pookas case. Then you have the ones that ask slighty strange questions to their parents who give stranger answers back.

I helped teach 9-12 year old children a martial art and they have to be the most open and unassuming Japanese I've ever met (2nd being university students from a medical university, great people, would love to meet them all again). Apart from an initial "oh, you speak japanese" it was on, they'd just let loose with their favorite tv shows, what had happened at school that day, all the latest playground goss, and afterwards their parents would say Hi and they soon knew me and accepted me as just another person in the group, no assumptions, no special treatment, no strange questions.

I guess if you look hard enough you'll find something, but otherwise you'll just be stuck in a crappy loop...

[Maciamo]

I helped teach 9-12 year old children a martial art and they have to be the most open and unassuming Japanese I've ever met (2nd being university students from a medical university, great people, would love to meet them all again). Apart from an initial "oh, you speak japanese" it was on, they'd just let loose with their favorite tv shows, what had happened at school that day, all the latest playground goss, and afterwards their parents would say Hi and they soon knew me and accepted me as just another person in the group, no assumptions, no special treatment, no strange questions.

I guess if you look hard enough you'll find something, but otherwise you'll just be stuck in a crappy loop...

I have met kids as you describe, but so far they have been a minority of the younger Japanese (under 15) I have met. What surprises me is that such kids would come at me and say strange things in the street (or make comments about "gaijin"to their friends/parents assuming I can't understand what they say).

[mad pierrot]

@Pachipro

In respect to the "blanket statements" that have been made, I urge you to look over the post again and look at the disclaimers! I don't think the half empty/half full argument is the point here; rather, it's the way Japanese people in general react towards cultural outsiders. When I first came to Japan, I spent a year living in Osaka. And, like it's been said, I was subject to the same inane questions as every other foreigner. It didn't piss me off. It never has. It might get annoying once and awhile, but obviously it hasn't driven me to hysterics. It has made me more interested in why Japanese people perceive foreigners as being so. I'm simply curious as to the underlying social aspects of this. Again, this isn't just groundless complaining, but rather a critique in general. Calling all sociologists...

I wasn't going to post this next story originally, but I think it's relevant now.

I've been living in a small town in Wakayama now for about two years. The people here are always nice to me, and incredibly friendly. Consequently, I've done my best to take part in the community, volunteering with people, visiting my neighbors, etc. I have never known such great people. Example: When I was sick during Christmas, EVERYBODY took care of me. My neighbors brought me hot soup, took me to the hospital, my boss brought me TONS of food, people were always calling to see how I was doing. Those were the nicest things anyone has ever done for me. My neighbors even came over and did my dishes. (The tried to clean my whole house, but I stopped them. )

That's the good story. Next comes the bad one. The bad reflects quite negatively on these same people, but it makes a valid point. Not sure if I'll post it yet.

[Pachipro]

Man, it drives me nuts when I'm asked, "Do you have this in America?" when it's something obviously not from Japan. Especially words, like "virus."
(Rolls eyes.....)
I've compiled a list of things I've been asked if are in America....
1. 4 seasons
2. convenience stores
3. Disney Land
4. Snoop and Winnie the Pooh
The list goes on.....

But what I find the most shocking is when Japanese think that they invented everything they use, see or hear in everyday life in Japan, when in fact so many things are Western. In the same way as Mad Pierrot explained how some Japanese don't seem to know that Winnie the Pooh is English and not Japanese, many Japanese think that many Western things are originally Japanese (but are not).

Let's reverse this. Is it not the same in America and Europe? Don't most, especially the younger generation, feel that most everything they see was invented in their own country?

My wife and I have been asked similar things here in the states. It's always hot in Japan isn't it? Do you have TV's, satellite TV, highways, CD players, etc. Most people assume that Japan is still a third world country. They are ignorant of the fact that Japan is a modern, industrialized country much like the US or Europe. Heck, most Americans don't even know that a large majority of what they perceive to be American products are in fact foreign. Shell oil and Toyota come to mind. They, mostly the younger ones, are shocked when they find out that Shell is in fact Dutch, and Toyota is a Japanese company. A few even assume that "Cup of Noodle" is an American invented product. Much the same as in Japan with your observations above. It must be the same all over and I don't think it is unique to Japan.

Does it bother my wife and annoy her that, after 16 years in the states, she is asked similar things by Americans? (She's even asked often if she eats meat!) No, she just tries to educate them and has come to understand that a majority of people are not taught about Japan. It's a sad but true fact.

Therefore, while in Japan as "educators" why not try and educate the Japanese rather than being annoyed to the point of irritation? After 30 years experience, I do not think it is going to change. Those questions will come time and time again until someone educates them. So far, I don't think it is going to be the educational institutions.

Personally, I enjoyed answering the "stupid and dumb" questions over and over and over again, after laughing out loud first, as it was an opportunity to teach somebody something they didn't already know. Afterwards, I'm sure they would not ask that question again of a foreigner as now they were enlightened. I used to love watching the kids, Junior and High, and even some college students', faces light up with shock, disbelief, and surprise when they were informed that Disneyland is not Japanese, Snoopy was born in America, and the "Circle K" and "7-11" combinis are American among other answers. I think I remember reading somewhere that "7-11" is now owned by Ito Yokkado.

I used to answer in Japanese, "Of course I can eat with chopsticks, eat sushi, sleep in a futon, cook my own rice, etc. etc. I've lived here for 16 years!" My polite answer to their "dumb" question kind of humbled some of them and I'm sure they felt awkward asking that question.

Don't get me wrong here, I was just as annoyed during my early years in Japan as some of you to the point of wanting to scream at the top of my lungs, "What! Are you all a bunch of idiots! Are we all nothing but talking dogs to you people, here for your amusement?" But I learned to study, observe, and learn from the Japanese people and culture and why they acted in this way. I asked many questions of the Japanese. Soon, my thinking slowly turned 180 degrees and it no longer irritated me as I learned that, no matter what, the Japanese are basically not prejudiced, xenophobic, or have an underlying dislike of all foreigners. They are just a curious island people who were taught that they, their history, and their ways are unique to the rest of the world and any foreigner that adapts, or tries to adapt, is the most curious and unique of all. Answering "dumb" questions, I hope, helped set the record straight with those I came in contact with.

Therefore, I looked at myself as a kind of unofficial "cultural ambassador" as it was obvious that no one else was going to educate them.

[Maciamo]

Let's reverse this. Is it not the same in America and Europe? Don't most, especially the younger generation, feel that most everything they see was invented in their own country?

That must be only in the States. Americans however have better reasons to be confused, as many famous people moved to the States and become American (eg. Einstein), or some famous companies from other countries are bought up by big US multinational (eg. Belgian chocolate Godiva is now American).

My wife and I have been asked similar things here in the states. It's always hot in Japan isn't it? Do you have TV's, satellite TV, highways, CD players, etc. Most people assume that Japan is still a third world country.

Again, that must be only in the US. Most Europeans see Japan as a resolutely modern country. The first things that spring to mind to a European about Japan is technology, electronics, robots, futuristic cars and video games - well before the traditional culture. But it was such a shock for me to see how backward Japan actually was in so many respect (socially, politically, architecturally...) and I had no idea, that I feel it a duty to make the world (or my fellow Europeans) know about it. On my first day in Tokyo, I thought I had arrived in Bangkok (where I have been, so I can compare).

[Maciamo]

Heck, most Americans don't even know that a large majority of what they perceive to be American products are in fact foreign. Shell oil and Toyota come to mind. They, mostly the younger ones, are shocked when they find out that Shell is in fact Dutch, and Toyota is a Japanese company.

What ! Is there people in the States who think that Toyota is American !! That doesn't improve my image of the average American, I can assure you !

And FYI, Shell is half-British, not 100% Dutch.

[mad pierrot]

Let's reverse this. Is it not the same in America and Europe? Don't most, especially the younger generation, feel that most everything they see was invented in their own country?

First, you must not have read my first post. To quote myself:

I didn't say other cultures aren't guilty of this as well,

Therefore, while in Japan as "educators" why not try and educate the Japanese rather than being annoyed to the point of irritation? After 30 years experience, I do not think it is going to change. Those questions will come time and time again until someone educates them. So far, I don't think it is going to be the educational institutions.

Who said I wasn't? You're missing my point; I'm not bashing their behavior. Japanese people react uniquely to people from outside their culture. And yes, every culture does this, in different ways, as I've already said.

Japanese are basically not prejudiced, xenophobic, or have an underlying dislike of all foreigners.

Would you deny that Japanese society has xenophobic tendencies? Again, I think you've misconstued what I've been saying as a personal attack on Japanese people.

Most people assume that Japan is still a third world country.

I'll have to disagree here. Even some of the poorly educated kids I knew from the city know that Japan is industrialized.


Here's an interesting example to talk about: Today I was having lunch at a school I've been teaching at for 2 years. The teachers sitting next to me where having a discussion about the Bush regime and it's policies with North Korea. As they were speculating about the US government, I politely offered some comments on my perceptions. (In Japanese.) And, (I'm not joking) the response I got from the Kocho Sensei was "Do you have ka-re in America?"
(We were eating curry udon for lunch today....)

Does this strike you as strange? I can guarantee you this kind of thing happens frequently. And I'm not ragingly bitter about it. I smiled, told him yes and went on to have a nice lunch. Is it wrong for me to want to hear other's speculations on this kind of behavior?

[Maciamo]

Personally, I enjoyed answering the "stupid and dumb" questions over and over and over again, after laughing out loud first, as it was an opportunity to teach somebody something they didn't already know.

I used to enjoy it too at teh beginning, but after one or two years it's getting tiring to be asked always exactly the same routine questions by 90% of the new people you meet. Rather than answering, I try to make them reflect a bit about the meaning of their question. For example, if someone ask me if "my country has four seasons like Japan", I reply one of the following :
- But I thought Japan had 5 seasons, with the tsyu (rainy season)
- But seasons aren't the same everywhere in Japan. Look Okinawa doesn't have seasons (or just wet and dry).
- Oh, my country has 6 seasons : cold & dry, cold & wet, cool & dry, cool & wet, warm & dry and warm & wet. What about Japan ?
- Which part of my country are you referring to ?
- Sometimes I feel that Japan doesn't really have seasons, as the sun sets as early as 6:30pm in summer and 5pm in winter, while in my country it sets at 10pm in summer and 4pm in winter (and doesn't rise before 8 or 9am in winter).
- Do you know any European country that doesn't have 4 seasons ?

Afterwards, I'm sure they would not ask that question again of a foreigner as now they were enlightened.

I have experienced a few times that the same person asked me twice a dumb question a few weeks later. I usually don't forget what I was asked by some particular person, especially if it struck me as dumb, or on the contrary, intelligent.

I used to answer in Japanese, "Of course I can eat with chopsticks, eat sushi, sleep in a futon, cook my own rice, etc. etc. I've lived here for 16 years!" My polite answer to their "dumb" question kind of humbled some of them and I'm sure they felt awkward asking that question.

Well, I hope it didn't take you 16 years to get use to that. Rather than saying how long I have been in Japan to explain that I can do these things, I say that I could already do them before coming to Japan, as most people can.

For the "can you eat this or that food" questions, I always return the question, and it appears that quite a few Japanese cannot eat either sushi (about 10%) or natto (about 50%). If they ask me about food (yes, I can eat sushi, uni, tofu and hijiki, but I don't like natto), I also ask them if they can eat frogs, snails, kangaroo, ostrich, venison, rabbit (oh, kawaisooo !), turkey, lamb, goat, crocodile or fried insects. I can eat all of them. I have asked about 30 Japanese about these, and usually they can't eat most or any of them. Who is laughing now ?

[nurizeko]

i learned to use chopsticks at a chinese resturaunt when i was 10-11.

my japanese girlfriend was suprised that A) i had chopsticks at my house, with the rest of my cutlery, B) that i knew how to use them.

she did though try and show me the "proper" way to use them * i can only assume chinese hold chopsticks only slightly differently from japanese because i could use them quite easily and comfortably the way i know, but she was showing me a slightly different way*.

what i think is a good thing to point out is that my g/f was ussually more suprised about the fact japanese culture was so well integrated into british and western culture, when it appears japan knows very little of britain.

ive known how to say konnichiwa since i was 8, and ive known of japan vaguely since i was 8, ive been more aware of japan and its culture since i was 13-14, and ive been pretty well educated on the subject of japan since i was 16.

i agree, japan, or britain, you will find people who know little outside of their own country, in britain these are the majority of the working class, and just extremely mentally idle at school.

in japan its simply the fact that japan provides an enviroment, and personality for japanese, that they dont feel any major need to know, they dont seem to appriciate the idea of learning about themselves and everything beyond purely for the persute of knowledge like education in the west, i agree with the idea that they simply appriciate the simple pleasures in life.


with me ive always been good at geography, biology, keen on history, and learning everything i could get my hands on and assimilate fast enough, now im no genius, far from it, but ive always been very aware that there's a world beyond the borders of my country, and i couldnt conceive being the knid of person who wouldnt by nature, want to learn about it. i like to feel i have a wisdom.

my japanese girlfriend though, is at university, something i would be hard pressed to acheive in my country let alone japans education system, it obviously instills a work ethic of really working hard for what you want, but it seems to completely fail in igniting that LOVE of learning, that desire which makes a student WANT to come to school/college/uni just to descover something new.

in japan i get the impression its simply a part of the routine of life, something that must be done.



saying that i hope my comments havnt been to harsh or anything, i know that theres alot of japanese who genuinly look beyond the simple routine of their lives, and their country, i know this because my girlfriend is one of them, and i have read about many examples of japanese men and women who are looking outward because looknig inward isnt satisfying them.

i also get the impression its getting to the stage where more and more japanese are starting to take a genuine interest in the world outside of japan, but i must admit, stories of cold attitudes of some japanese and the phenomena of japanese only signs at shops and bussiness' is quite worrying, and suffice to say i will have to really think hard before i considor living in japan.

so thats my 2 cents in a long boring rant =)

[Karakuri]

"The solution I have found to the "being treated like a retarded" situations is to make them feel as if they are the one to have asked an utterly stupid question, so as to culpabilize them on their ignorance and hope they don't reiterate (even with someone else) later."

I'd like to do that. xD But can a woman do this without being judged as "difficult" and "overbearing"?

Oh, I'm just going to cross my fingers and hope I can find the more non-conformist Japanese out there. There have to heaps of them, somewhere.