Gold Warriors : the plunder of Asia

[Maciamo]

And according to your logic, if we wanted to bomb Muslims, we could just go to Indonesia, which is the most populus Islamic nation, or Iran or Iraq immediately, or any other nations which have a larger Muslim population.

I expect that Indonesia is already on a "grey list" (not yet black) of the US, esp. for its terrorist attacks in the nightclub in Bali, the Australian embassy this week, etc. The main difference between Indonesia and Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan is that the Indonesian gov. is not extremist and has to cope with religious diversity (Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Animists...). Then, even most Indonesian Muslims are not very religious (from my experience of travelling there). Terrorists are just a minority group, fought by the government. But still Indonesia and the US are far from being friends (even more developed and pluri-cultural Malaysia is quite anti-American).

North Korea being on Bush's black list for being too communist?!?!? Maybe six active nuclear weapons in a region in which the US is trying to establish trade ties to Japan, S. Korea, China, Taiwan, etc. is the answer.

China has a much bigger nuclear capacity, much bigger army and hardly less crazy government, but the US tries hard to make friends with them, because 1) it would be too dangerous to fight them, and 2) they hope capitalism completely overtake communism soon.

And yes I am aware of the US's actions in South America and SE Asia, nothing we should be too proud of. But look at it this way (if possible) would you rather be living in a greedy, corrupted, capitalist state, or an oppressive, tyrannical, communist state? Both sides of the fight in any regions have nothing to be proud of (Shining Path, anyone???), so don't go blaming the whole thing on the US.

I don't only blame the US. The problem is that the US gov. tries too much to pressure other countries to go their way, and claim to be a reference of democracy and universal moral at the same time. China, Iran or Saudi Arabia don't.

[shiningblue]

I expect that Indonesia is already on a "grey list" (not yet black) of the US, esp. for its terrorist attacks in the nightclub in Bali, the Australian embassy this week, etc. The main difference between Indonesia and Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan is that the Indonesian gov. is not extremist and has to cope with religious diversity (Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Animists...). Then, even most Indonesian Muslims are not very religious (from my experience of travelling there). Terrorists are just a minority group, fought by the government. But still Indonesia and the US are far from being friends (even more developed and pluri-cultural Malaysia is quite anti-American).

According to your logic, using the minority muslim extremist population, all of these countries would be on the US "black list": Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Indonesia, Phillipines, Uzbekistan (most of the ~stan countries for that matter), Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Turkey, and many African naions. Because of this, I don't think that the US could take on all of these countries at once, and the selection out of these countries for "muslim attack" would have to incorporate other factors. So I don't think the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq were religiously motivated as they were economically and politically (Bush wanting reelection, regime change, etc.)

China has a much bigger nuclear capacity, much bigger army and hardly less crazy government, but the US tries hard to make friends with them, because 1) it would be too dangerous to fight them, and 2) they hope capitalism completely overtake communism soon.

China has a much less crazy government, especially after Deng Xiaopeng came to power. Their economy has turned more and more capitalist giving private ownership to about half of thier industries. As well, local governments in the west have been having democratic elections for their leaders for the last decade. This trend has also been spreading around the different rural cities (need i remind you that about 80% of the population in China is rural) so democracy has been spreading. Save a few instances like Tiennamen Square, the whole Falun Gong thing, Hong Kong and Taiwan, China is on its way to become THE world power, surpassing the US in economic strength. And who wouldn't want to be friends with that? (And yes, it would be too hard to fight them)

I don't only blame the US. The problem is that the US gov. tries too much to pressure other countries to go their way, and claim to be a reference of democracy and universal moral at the same time. China, Iran or Saudi Arabia don't.

terrorism

n : the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear

Wouldn't you say that the people that Bush is "supposedly" fighting are the same way. Pressuring other countries to go their way not by aerial campaigns and invations, but by car bombs and hijackings. I don't see the difference between Bush sending 100,000+ troops into a country for political and such reasons, and Bin Ladin ordering 9/11 for political and such reasons. Both sides push, but since the US is so powerful, ours is like a violent shove.

And as for the US trying to be a moral standard for the rest of the world, yes i too think it is a little hypocritical. ie - "Killing for peace is like ***king for virginity" However, my whole point is that while the US might be on their own little carpet bombing zone over here, the rest of the world isn't so innocent in comparison. Many more conflicts with much higher body counts are taking place right now, with much less to no attention because people would rather take on the big target --> the US.

Hopefully, Kerry can get elected in November, then the wars will stop (for the most part) and we could get back to a more multilateral kind of foreign policy. VOTE KERRY ON NOVEMBER SECOND OR PREPARE FOR FOUR MORE YEARS OF GLOBAL HEGEMONY, SMART BOMBS, DICK CHENEY, AND OTHER NASTY ICKY THINGS!!!!!