What's the origin of the Japanese people ?

[JichaelMordon]

Caster51, I havent read all of this topic yet, but I request you quit promoting your lies.

You remark that Korea did not have wet rice method. Korea had wet rice method long long before Japan ever did. Korea had wet rice method centuries before a Japanese state was even formed. Gaya was never a part of Japan nor was it "founded" by Japanese. It was a Korean state as acknowledged by the vast majority of sane historians. The same goes for Koguryeo and Baekje. They were Korean kingdoms and are still to this day Korean.

The fact is, you are no historian. You are a fraud. A fraud who only wants to believe what he wants to believe, no matter how delusional or preposterous.

[pipokun]

...
They were Korean kingdoms and are still to this day Korean.
...

At least, most Japanese incl. me and Chinese people are surely surprised at your sense of history.

[JichaelMordon]

At least, most Japanese incl. me and Chinese people are surely surprised at your sense of history.

Considering how the rest of the world laughs at Japan and China's textbooks and delusional view of history, im not surprised. Japan and China are so similar to each other. They just dont like to admit it.

P.S. only a complete idiot believes Koguryeo, Kaya and Baekje were Japanese rather than Korean kingdoms.

[Trollhattan]

At least, most Japanese incl. me and Chinese people are surely surprised at your sense of history.

He's ignorant of East Asia history

[JichaelMordon]

He's ignorant of East Asia history

And what exactly did I get wrong? Or is it because you guys simply disagree with me? Cant handle the truth?

[caster51]

And what exactly did I get wrong? Or is it because you guys simply disagree with me? Cant handle the truth?

I think thie is for you

[caster51]

The oldest rubbed copy of Gwanggaeto Stele(in the northeastern Chinese province of Jilin) was found in China. This rubbed copy conforms closely to Imperial Japanese Army's one, including descriptions about ancient Japan. This fact became clear by Jo Kenshin's study. He is a professor at Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.
His study put an end to the controversy over the inscription on this stele from 70's. Some people claimed that Imperial Japanese Army had altered this inscription, but this theory could be proved incorrect conclusively.
The inscription on this stele says:
"Since 391, Wa(Japan) crossed sea and defeated Baekje, ?? and Silla and made them subjects."
In 1883, this rubbed copy was gotten by Sakoh Kagenobu, who was an officer of Japan Army General Staff. Japanese Army General Staff concluded that Japan had ruled Korean Peninsula in ancient times.
After the war, some people questioned the credibility of Sakoh's rubbed copy. In 1972, Lee, professor emeritus at Wako University, claimed that Japanese Army had altered this inscription to justify their expanding to Korean Peninsula. Lee's theory aroused great controversy between the researchers from 4 countries, Japan, China, Korea and North Korea. Since then the widely held theory was propounded, but this theory did not put an end to the controversy over the inscription under the condition that it's difficult to verify theories with the real thing.
Jo professor have been studying about 50 real rubbed copies in various nations of East Asia. Year before last, he found a rubbed copy copied in 1881 at the auction of Peking. This copy is older than Sakoh's one, which had been considered as the oldest until then. He captured this and Sakoh's to his PC and compared them. Then he found there is no sign of intentional alteration. This year, the outcomes of his study was published in the book, "The study of rubbed copies of Gwanggaeto Stele(TokyoDo)".
Jo professor stressed the significance of his study and said " This result will release us from proving the emperor-centered historic view of old Japan or Japanese army's involvement, and Gwanggaeto Stele will be appreciated as a pure historical record to reveal the history of East Asia from the 4th to 5th century." But a widely-accepted theory says this inscription describes Japan as a more powerful nation than it really was. This theory explains that the inscription exaggerates the achievement of Gwanggaeto who defeated Japan. Though Imperial Japanese Army's alteration is denied, this does not automatically mean ancient Japan ruled the whole Korean Peninsula.
This inscription is not the only record about ancient Japan's expanding to Korean Peninsula.
For example, Chinese book on history, Chronicles of Sui Dynasty("Zui Sho" in Japanese) describes Baekje and Silla thought Japan is a great power.
This book says;
Baekje and Silla thought Japan is a great power and have many rare things. Each of them respects Japan, and dispatches envoys who always come and go to Japan.
Korean book on history, Chronicles of three nations(Sangokushiki in Japanese) says Baekje and Silla send their princes to Japan as hostages.
This book says;
In 397, Baekje establishes diplomatic relations with Japan, and send their prince, Chonjiwan to Japan as a hostage.
In 402, Silla establishes diplomatic relations with Japan, and send their prince, Mikishin to Japan as a hostage.
Japanese book on history, Chronicles of Japan("Nihonshoki" in Japanese) also records their expansion to Korean Peninsula, though there are various theories as to when each event happened.
These records are compliment one another and do not conflict with another(They are only representative examples).
These facts show that ancient Japan really ruled at least a part of Korean Peninsula.
I think this operation turned out to be improper. They had better claim Japan had invaded their nations without using such big words as "We had given Japan first culture and civilization!". And should they demand an apology from the invasion of over1600 years?
WA ppls in korean documents
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%80%...96%87%E7%8C%AE
Wa ppl in the Chinese documents
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%80%...96%87%E7%8C%AE

The five kings of Wa (倭の五王) are kings of ancient Japan who sent envoys to China during the 5th century to strengthen the legitimacy of their claims to power by gaining the recognition of the Chinese emperor. Details about them are unknown. According to written records in China,....These titles for the military Sovereignly over the countries had no actual powers. The appointments reflected the struggle for hegemony over the region between Goguryeo and Wa, depicted in the Gwanggaeto Stele.[1]

使持節都督倭百斉新羅任那加羅秦韓慕韓七国諸軍事安東太将軍倭国王
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_kings_of_Wa

[caster51]

Talhae of Silla

Talhae of Silla (?-80, r. 57-80) was the fourth king of Silla, one of the Three Kingdoms of Korea. He is commonly called Talhae Isageum, isageum being the royal title in early Silla.
[edit] Background
He was a member of the Gyeongju Seok clan, one of the noble clans that shared the Silla throne during the early Common Era.
He was born in a small kingdom 1000 li1 northeast of Wa (Japan)[1]. (The name of the kingdom is Dapana-guk 다파나국 多婆那� 2 according to Samguk Sagi, or Yongseong-guk 용성국 龍城� [2] according to Samguk Yusa.) His father, King Hamdalpa, was a king of this kingdom, his mother was a queen or princess of another small kingdom.

wa ppls were kings of Silla
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talhae_of_Silla
Hogong

Hogong was a minister of Silla in the age of nation-building. It is recorded that he was originally from the Wa people of Japan, though his surname or clan name was unknown to the compiler of the Historical Records of the Three Kingdoms.[1] He was called Hogong (meaning "Duke bottle gourd") because he was putting on his bottle gourd when he came from Japan. He was a very important person in initial Silla because he appeared in stories of primogenitors of all royal families.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogong
Silla was made by the Japanese?

[JichaelMordon]

The oldest rubbed copy of Gwanggaeto Stele(in the northeastern Chinese province of Jilin) was found in China. This rubbed copy conforms closely to Imperial Japanese Army's one, including descriptions about ancient Japan. This fact became clear by Jo Kenshin's study. He is a professor at Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.
His study put an end to the controversy over the inscription on this stele from 70's. Some people claimed that Imperial Japanese Army had altered this inscription, but this theory could be proved incorrect conclusively.
The inscription on this stele says:
"Since 391, Wa(Japan) crossed sea and defeated Baekje, ?? and Silla and made them subjects."
In 1883, this rubbed copy was gotten by Sakoh Kagenobu, who was an officer of Japan Army General Staff. Japanese Army General Staff concluded that Japan had ruled Korean Peninsula in ancient times.
After the war, some people questioned the credibility of Sakoh's rubbed copy. In 1972, Lee, professor emeritus at Wako University, claimed that Japanese Army had altered this inscription to justify their expanding to Korean Peninsula. Lee's theory aroused great controversy between the researchers from 4 countries, Japan, China, Korea and North Korea. Since then the widely held theory was propounded, but this theory did not put an end to the controversy over the inscription under the condition that it's difficult to verify theories with the real thing.
Jo professor have been studying about 50 real rubbed copies in various nations of East Asia. Year before last, he found a rubbed copy copied in 1881 at the auction of Peking. This copy is older than Sakoh's one, which had been considered as the oldest until then. He captured this and Sakoh's to his PC and compared them. Then he found there is no sign of intentional alteration. This year, the outcomes of his study was published in the book, "The study of rubbed copies of Gwanggaeto Stele(TokyoDo)".
Jo professor stressed the significance of his study and said " This result will release us from proving the emperor-centered historic view of old Japan or Japanese army's involvement, and Gwanggaeto Stele will be appreciated as a pure historical record to reveal the history of East Asia from the 4th to 5th century." But a widely-accepted theory says this inscription describes Japan as a more powerful nation than it really was. This theory explains that the inscription exaggerates the achievement of Gwanggaeto who defeated Japan. Though Imperial Japanese Army's alteration is denied, this does not automatically mean ancient Japan ruled the whole Korean Peninsula.
This inscription is not the only record about ancient Japan's expanding to Korean Peninsula.
For example, Chinese book on history, Chronicles of Sui Dynasty("Zui Sho" in Japanese) describes Baekje and Silla thought Japan is a great power.

Do you even know how to read? Or do you only copy stuff from japanese wikipedia and parrot everything it says? I made no mention of the Japanese damaging the stele(although its a huge possibility). I only mentioned that Japan's translation of the stele was inaccurate and downright moronic.
Only the first character for "Baekje" (百) is noted, and even the supposed first character of Silla is not complete (only 斤 as opposed to 新). We dont even know if it was actually referring to Baekje. The stele only mentions the damaged word 百. Baekje is spelled 百濟, not 百. The stele mentions the word 斤 which is the incomplete character of 新. Shilla is spelled 新羅. Obviously, 斤 in no way equals 新羅(shilla). Only a Japanese historian can interpret history in such a faulty way. Its delusional.
You also claim that that the stele was referring to Wa defeating Baekje and Shilla even though this is not stated in the stele or supported by historical records. The stele can be translated in many different ways because the characters are missing. Korean scholars translated the passage as-
""And in the sinmyo year Goguryeo came and crossed the sea and defeated Wa. Baekje made [unknown] and [Sil]la its subjects."""
And this sounds a lot more realistic and is in fact supported by historical records. Goguryeo did in fact defeat Japan and subjugated both Shilla and Paekche during that time period.
source (De Bary, Theodore and Peter H. Lee, "Sources of Korean Tradition", p. 25-26)
The Stele was a tribute to a Korean King but because of a lack of punctuation the writing can be translated 4 different ways, this same Stele can be intrepreted as Korea crossed to Sea and subjugated Japan depending on where you punctuate the sentence. Only a Japanese person interprets history in such a faulty way. Its laughable that Japan believes that 斤 somehow equals 新羅. Or that 百 equals 百濟. Or that Japan somehow conquered Korea. How did Japan conquer Korea? How? Korea was far far stronger. No Korea or Chinese historians record Japan ever conquering ancient Korea. Ancient records do however mention that Korea conquered Japan.
Typical Japanese history

This book says;
Baekje and Silla thought Japan is a great power and have many rare things. Each of them respects Japan, and dispatches envoys who always come and go to Japan.
This book says;

What an awful awful translation. The correct translation is
""Silla and Baekje both take Wa to be a big country of treasure source, with many rare and precious things in Japan; also [Silla and Baekje] highly esteemed it [many rare and precious things], and regularly send their person there"".
Silla, Baekje and later Goguryeo colonized Japan and considered it a "treasure source" and regularly sent colonists to it. Thats very danming evidence and only Japanese historians deny it and claim that Koreans were somehow sending tribute to japan. As if that makes any sense lol.
Typical Japanese history

Korean book on history, Chronicles of three nations(Sangokushiki in Japanese) says Baekje and Silla send their princes to Japan as hostages.In 397, Baekje establishes diplomatic relations with Japan, and send their prince, Chonjiwan to Japan as a hostage.In 402, Silla establishes diplomatic relations with Japan, and send their prince, Mikishin to Japan as a hostage.

Only a Japanese person will interpret history in such a way. Baekje and Shilla sent those princes as emissaries. As foreign diplomats. The fact that you believe this somehow denotes Wa conquered Shilla and Baekje is laughable. Its neither supported by historical records or archaeology. Shilla sent its prince in order to secure military aid and control from japanese warlords at the time. Baekje also sent a prince for the same reason. They did so because both Shilla and Baekje were at war against each other and needed every single advantage to overcome the other. Baekje won out in the end and Wa later became a colony of Baekje.
Shilla, Goguryeo and Baekje regularily sent princes to its neighbors even during times of war. It was a cultural custom and method of diplomacy. Only a Japanese person can interpret it a different way.
Typical Japanese history

Japanese book on history, Chronicles of Japan("Nihonshoki" in Japanese)

You've lost all your credibility by mentioning the Nihonshoki. Half of the book dwells with fictional events. Including gods, flying people, dragons, lasers, time travel and cloud people. LOL. Not even Japanese historians use it as a historical reference. So what are you doing right now?
Typical Japanese history

also records their expansion to Korean Peninsula, though there are various theories as to when each event happened.
These records are compliment one another and do not conflict with another(They are only representative examples).
These facts show that ancient Japan really ruled at least a part of Korean Peninsula.

You actually believe Empress Jingu who supposedly conquered Korea was a real historical figure? Sorry to burst your bubble, but she never existed. You fail big time for using the Nihonshoki as evidence. Not even Japanese historians believe she's real.
Typical Japanese history

Talhae of Silla
wa ppls were kings of Silla
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talhae_of_Silla

LOL do you even know how to read? Talhae wasnt born in Japan. He was born 1000 li of Wa(Japan). Which is a very long distance. Or they could have also been referring to the Korean kingdom of Kaya whom was also called Wa. 1 Li during that time period was about 600 meters. So in other words, Talhae was born 600 km away from Japan. And that is if he was even a real person.
""According to the Samguk Sagi, when he was born as an egg, his father considered it an ill omen and had it boxed and floated at sea. The egg floated past Geumgwan Gaya and landed east of Gyerim (near today's Gyeongju, South Korea), where he was raised by an old man as a fisherman. His family is said to have taken over a high official's house by claiming to be metalsmiths.""
So basically, you claim that a person who was born far far away from Japan. And who was born in an egg that floated around the ocean for quite some time before being discovered by a fisherman somehow denotes to Japan conquering Korea.
Right........
Excuse me while I hold my laughter.
Typical Japanese history

Hogong
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogong
Silla was made by the Japanese?

How on earth does a single Japanese person working for the Korea king somehow denote to Japan making Korea? Mind you that there are a hundred times more recorded instances of Japan using Korean scholars and ministers to build its nations. And this is recorded within Japanese texts.
You want to use the Nihon Shoki? Well then read up on Korean scholar Wang In(Wani) who according to the Nihon Shoki you love so much taught Japan writing, Confucianism and manners.LOL