Do you speak Japanese ?

[thomas]

Latin was compulsory at my school, I don't regret having studied it for 7 years. It's an excellent base for other languages, although it doesn't really help a lot with nihongo studies.

[Iron Chef]

Hmm... hard to believe I haven't replied to this thread yet so here goes...

I consider myself fluent in conversational Japanese and it is something I pride myself on having learnt "the hard way" so to speak. Prior to my arrival in Japan I had virtually no direct exposure to the language (had not taken classes or bought audio tapes, etc.). I am a firm believer of the age-old adage "When in Rome..." therefore one of my first priorities was to immerse myself in the language as much as possible. This was no easy task and gaining even a basic comprehension was not something I was able to do early on. Only after acclimating to my environment and making a dedicated effort to commit to memory as many vocabulary and phrases as possible was I then on my way to gaining a level of comprehension.

My daily routine those first six months or so consisted of me carrying a small notepad with me where ever I went. As I would hear a common word or phrase repeated often, I would jot it down phonetically into my pad as best I could for future reference. Then, when I could afford the time (usually in-between classes at work), I would leisurely look up the meanings to everything I had written down. Soon I began forming lists and these I would eventually commit to memory as best I could. Interestingly enough, the more comfortable with the language I became, the more I wanted to learn. It was at this point then that I actually began taking classes from some of my private adult students (language exchange) to further polish my conversational skills.

For the entire duration of my stay, I made an active effort to use Japanese as much as possible and surround myself with the language. I did not actively seek out any native English speakers although having been in Sapporo I certainly could have had the opportunity. Nevertheless, I had met several native English speakers who had been there longer than me yet whose mastery of the Japanese language was considerably lacking as they tended to surround themselves with English speaking friends ever since their arrival. I resolved myself to not fall into the same trap so to speak.

At some point, i'm not sure when really... but everything just seemed to "click" and I found myself very comfortable using Japanese as often and as freely as possible. It wasn't until I was seated next to an elderly woman when I was returning home to the States for the Holidays that this realization finally dawned on me. This very kind Grandmother happened to be on her way to visit her relatives in California and she did not speak a lick of English. My ability to maintain a conversation with her without repeating myself and sounding redundant for the entire duration of that flight is still one of those personal milestones embedded in my memory.

As it stands, my Japanese has gotten a bit rusty having been away from Japan for a few years now. Although as I look forward to graduation this Fall, my plans to return to Japan soon have reinvigorated my efforts to pick up where I had left off. My advice to any beginners is this: IMMERSE yourself as much as humanly possible. Yes, you will get frustrated but don't give up! There IS a light at the end of the tunnel and comprehension is its name. Believe it or not, through sheer exposure, you WILL learn even if it is the "hard way". And ultimately, in the end it makes it all the more worthwhile. Keep practicing!

[Keiichi]

Although I've heard many people learned Japanese by staying in Japan for a while, that one was probably the best I've heard so far.
Maybe I had not read it, but how long were you there?

[Chipi]

...your mail sounds encouraging, iron chef

I tried to learn some basics of japanese language last fall, but I have allready forgotten so much. I should just find the time and learn all the hiraganas and katakanas without looking from the book.

I work at a place where we have international guests pretty much every day, and lucky me, also a lot of japanese people
I just feel somehow, a bit depressed, because I canｴt say that much to our japanese guests. Seems stupid to say just "Hajimemashite, watashi wa..." or something like that in a situation like that...and very often the japanese guests have had the effort to learn some finnish words, like "kiitos" (thank you) and "nakemiin" (goodbye).
How could I say, politely and nicely, something like "thank you for visiting us, have a nice day" ? Tips are taken

[Iron Chef]

Keiichi:

Two years and two months give or take a few days. I am earnestly looking forward to returning asap (most likely anytime after the new Year).

Chipi:

Just keep plugging away. I know it can be very daunting at first but perhaps you could try formulating vocabulary lists of say five to ten different words to committ to memory each day. You could also use home made flash cards to help with the memorization part as i've found these to be an extremely useful tool (and often times less awkward than carrying an actual Dictionary around with you everywhere).

With enough patience and practice, you could then use your home made stack of flash cards to align themselves into simple phrases and sentences laying the cards out in front of you as an added visual. Once you have the vocabulary down, learning sentence structure comes naturally imho. Give the flash cards a shot and lemme know if they work for you.

Oh, and you could try maybe "yoi ichinichi o" for "have a nice day" although it is a bit formal and not used in everyday speak. For a more common "come back soon" try "itte rasshai". Hope that helps, although i'm sure your friends will be more honored by your sincerity rather than perfect pronunciation.

[Keiichi]

Kind of impressive how two years one can learn a whole new language and culture. Quite inspirational.

The only thing that limits me is currently my vocabulary in reading, listening, and speaking. I can speak Japanese really well, fluent-like (not-super fast, but not learning slow) and pronouncing everything accuratly, if only I have something to say or know what to say, which is my problem (not actually a problem, just don't know it yet... *lol*). So far I've only taken 2.5 years of Japanese courses (not devoted since I have other classes...) and I still don't know much and knowing that two years living in Japan can boost that learning so much faster is inspirational. I hope I can do it after I get my bachelor from Uni hopefully that's from 2 to 3 years. ^_^

[Iron Chef]

Trust me Keiichi, you'll do fine-heck, even better i'd say since you already have a formal academic background with all the classes you've taken. Remember, I went in cold-turkey and if you ever met me in person you'd realize i'm probably the LAST person to pick up on Japanese as well as I did lol. Therefore, if a bumbling buffoon such as myself can do it, should be cake for the likes of you

[Keiichi]

Thanks!

Say, what kind of preparations do you need for such a long trip? Lots of money? (and hopefully land a job) *lol*
I've never even moved away from the state or anywhere. ^^'

[jeisan]

i was once told by a foreign exchange student at my school who was fluent in several languages that one of the best ways to learn a language is to think in it, dont think in your native tounge and translate it into whatever else. so if ya wanna speak japanese, think japanese.

[Keiichi]

Hey Iron Chef (cook me something good to eat.. j/k), so in that two year time, you've also learned how to write Japanese pretty well? How much kanji did you think you've learned? I found it quite hard to learn kanji (except the ones at my level that I'm learning). So with your notepad, did you also jot down kanjis since Japanese consists of so many of them in their text.

[Iron Chef]

Learning Kanji as opposed to just conversational Japanese is an entirely different beast in and of itself. One could easily spend years learning the different meanings, contexts, and proper stroke order and yet still never fully master all the subtle intricacies that exist. For myself, I can probably recognize around just under four hundred or so which is hardly anything to brag about really compared to the 48,000+. Most of those are utilitarian in nature as well and pretty commonplace and I can actually write a little less than half that number in reality.

Surprisingly, i've found you can get by remarkably well with just a few hundred basic Kanji and a good comprehension of Hiragana and Katakana in terms of surviving day-to day. I don't recommend using my aforementioned notepad technique for learning Kanji as it is only really conducive for maybe the simpler forms. Ideally, a great way to learn Kanji is through practicing Shodo or Japanese calligraphy. I've included a link that you may find helpful with regards to learning more about Shodo. I also encourage you to check out the other resources available through this site and forum to learn more about Kanji as they may be of more help to you.

http://japanese.about.com/cs/calligraphy/

[ragedaddy]

Yeah, the best place to learn Japanese is of course in Japan. A good way of getting down the language at a faster pace is to enroll in a Language School. 3 years ago I studied Japanese for about 4 months in the Northern part of Japan for like 4 months at a University. That was way too short of a stay, and so I came back and tried to study on my own. However, that pretty much sucked, and also my college didn`t offer Japanese classes. I really wanted to learn Japanese, so I researched online and found a Japanese Language School. Before I came to Japan this time, I had a small base, but I could hardly hold a conversation. However, after studying at a language school for about less than a year, my skills have improved drastically. I can get by pretty well now, so that is definitely a cool thing.

I also have been living with a homestay family for the last 6 months, so that has really helped my conversational skills as well as my listening skills. Also, having a Japanese girlfriend has improved my language skills as well, but that is only one of the many benefits about having an intercultural relationship. Everyday in Japan is basically a learning experience, because you are forced to speak Japanese to get around. Plus when you are hanging out with Japanese friends, you can pick up lots of new words, because they ussually end up repeating those same words frequently through out their conversation. I also have some good American buddies over here as well, so it is good to go out and speak some English once in a while.

As for Kanji, I invested in an electronic dictionary, and as I would write sentences in class, I would look up the kanji for the word and write that down opposed to hiragana. It was kind of a pain at first, but once you write the kanjis down a bunch of times, you start to get the hang of it. In my practice book, I also wrote down the kanjis individually about a billion times until they were pretty much engrained in my head. As of right now I can probably read close to 800 or 900 kanji, and probably can write about half. However, I am not even close to where I want to end up, so I`m going to have to keep on with those kanjis.

I also depends on how dedicated you are to studying the language. I worked myself hard day after day to get where I am.
If you are a slacker and you don`t like to study, then it will take longer to become proficient. There are so many things you can do to improve your language skills. For example. watch Japanese TV, listen to Japanese music, read Japanese books, etc.

If you already have a good base of the Japanese, then it will be even easier to pick up on the language. Therefore, you shouldn`t have any worries about studying here in Japan, because it`s the best place to learn Japanese. All I can say is best of luck to all of you guys studying, and the most important part is just having fun with the language. It gets frustrating, believe me, but don`t give up! You can do it!

[Elizabeth]

I have been studying about 5 years on my own, with a tutor and three months at a language school in Japan. I'm not sure of the exact number, but probably able to recognize between 3,000-4,000 individual kanji by now so newspaper and magazine reading is semi-fluent. I do write a lot of emails to my tutor and boyfriend in Japan, although conversation and listening are slower.

I definately agree with a previous poster that once you have the basic sentence structures & vocab down the best thing is to begin trying to think in the language on your own and weaning yourself from phrase books, sample sentences in dictionaries, etc. It's very hard for me because I hate making mistakes and sometimes there really isn't any way to reason with Japanese.

Like this sentence I got from my b/f the other day. We were talking about the phrase 'kimochi ga waitekite' (sort of like suddenly realizing someone is gone and feeling lonely/missing them). I think he was saying in the case of enjoyable things it doesn't matter whether you gradually or suddenly realize someone is gone and wrote: "Kimochi ga waitekite....." wa 'suddenly' dewanakute 'gradually realized.....' de.....wa tanoshii koto demo kamaimasen." I still don't quite understand the grammar behind "tanoshii koto demo kamaimasen," though, so this could be a bit off base.

[Soccerphile]

Been here for over 10 years but not much better than intermediate - still live in hope and have been following Kanji clinic on my phone:
http://japanvisitor.com/i_mode/clinic.html

[Kyo]

Originally posted by Elizabeth
I'm not sure of the exact number, but probably able to recognize between 3,000-4,000 individual kanji by now so newspaper and magazine reading is semi-fluent. I do write a lot of emails to my tutor and boyfriend in Japan, although conversation and listening are slower.

I think you overdid it a bit. Usually you can read magazines with a proper knowledge of about 1200-1500kanji. Newspapers at around 1600-1800 kanji.
But 3000-4000 kanji ??? That would be really old japanese literature. Not even a native japanese could read that much.

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by Kyo
I think you overdid it a bit. Usually you can read magazines with a proper knowledge of about 1200-1500kanji. Newspapers at around 1600-1800 kanji.
But 3000-4000 kanji ??? That would be really old japanese literature. Not even a native japanese could read that much.

Yes, thanks, I realized that later since my dictionary just lists 2,882 and only 1,945 Jouyou Kanji have been authorized for general use. Anyway, I am terrible with numbers.

[lil_chickie]

Originally posted by deborah gormley
Just greeting for me I'm afraid but willing to learn more

hai. japanese is hard. ^_^ "

[ax]

I know katakana and hiragana plus kanji. I know some basic grammar and sentence pattern. But am not very conversant in japanese.

ax

[aaron]

Hi. I've been taking Japanese for about 5 years know and know between 200-400 kanji and all kanas fluently. I have been to Japan and that has helped tremendously. Yesterday, a japanese student wrote my name out in kanji and it meant the mountain with no meaning. It seems to change every year.

[Maciamo]

@number of kanji

Electronic dictionaries usually list all the kanji used in Japanese, that is a bit more than 6000. Of course, that includes the old ones used only in literature, as modern Japanese requires only a bit more than 2000 of them (and not all adults Japanese know even the 1945 jouyou !). There are lots of books with different levels of kanji for Japanese students (and adults). Even university educated people aren't expected to know more than 2500, so I am surprised by Elizabeth's 3000-4000 kanji to read a newspaper.

Elizabeth-san, have you tried any of these books to estimated your knowledge of kanji ? Here is the 1kyuu (level 1, about 6000kanji) for Japanese. There is also level sub-1 (準一級, about 3000 kanji). Very few Japanese can achieve even level sub-1 if from what I've heard.

[Himura]

I never learned jap at school... what a shame! Learning Nihongo is my hobby... NO!!! it´s more than that! I love this language!! - IT´s my fate!! Muhahahaha
....but I´m still so bad that´s depressing
*That´s why I never had time learn... because of the school... I´m looking for a teacher in my near! <==OFFER ;)*

[aaron]

Japanese is easy when you get over the structures. I thought at the start of the course that it was the hardest language and now I am getting A's in correspondence.

[lil_chickie]

i love nihongo!! but i can only teach myself as i dont learn it at school. but im doing well. ive been taking japanese not long.

[Mae]

i'm kinda true blue nihongo fan, just know sum'in bout it, The basics i mean...really basic, i learn it all from the jap dorama, they'r GREAT!!

[blueskies]

i can't speak or understand japanese..but i would really love to learn..i found the japanese characters or kanji i think is what they call it really cool..looks hard to learn though:d