For our Japanese readers : Things you should not say to Westerners

[Taiko666]

I am hard pressed to find a more arrogant thread showing all the bad qualities foriegners can possibly have. To the OP, (even though he is not around anymore) if I ever get the chance to go to your house as a guest, remind me to tell you how I want to be treated...

I see your point. But if you went to the OP's house and he gave you a bib so you wouldn't splash your food on your clothes, and showed you some children's TV programmes because he assumed you couldn't understand grown up stuff, the OP would be guilty of at least a complete lack of empathy at how you'd feel being treated that way. I think that's where the OP was coming from.

And anyway, you yourself have let off steam about the way you're sometimes treated in Japan - eg the "modem man who spoke only to your wife and not to you." I think on that occasion you were pretty forthright in telling that person how they should treat you!

[FrustratedDave]

I see your point. But if you went to the OP's house and he gave you a bib so you wouldn't splash your food on your clothes, and showed you some children's TV programmes because he assumed you couldn't understand grown up stuff, the OP would be guilty of at least a complete lack of empathy at how you'd feel being treated that way. I think that's where the OP was coming from.

I am finding it hard to see the relation to your analogy and the intent of the original post??? I have never been treated like a baby.
Don't do the following things or act this way.
#1. Ask questions about food
#2. Ask questions about the weather & seasons
#3. Ask questions regarding general abilities
#4. Addressing a Westerner in a public place
#5. If addressed by a Westerner in Japanese
Just b/c the original poster can now do all the things he stated or has now reached a level where he does not want to be asked or acted upon in a certain way all Japanese should not ask these things??? That to me me is the height of arrogance.

When I first came here I had no understanding of Japanese and welcomed the people speaking to me in English. I had no idea what Japanese foods I could or could not eat and I learnt a great deal from questions about what food I could or could not eat. Questions about the weather, I did not even know that Japan had seasons were so different. Where I come from spring summer and autum are almost the same temperature.... very hot, so there is no four seasons like japan where I came from. About abilities, I could not use chopsticks either.

Now almost 15 years later I can do all the things mentioned and can do them very well ,I also understand about the four season that Japan has, I can eat just about anything except "uni" and still have people come up to me who I meet for the first time and ask me the same questions I was asked a long time ago. However, after I speak I don't asked any chopstick questions or the four seasons question any more. Every now and again I get asked what I can eat and what I don't like, but isn't that only natural for people to be curious of someone who has come from a different culture? It makes good conversation IMO b/c you can turn around and ask them what they don't like and lets face it Japanese love their food, it is their culture. So whats the problem?

So what has changed then? Well , not much really , b/c I still look like a forienger and was not brought up here so it is only natural that people have curiosity when we meet for the first time as they don't know my background and I see no harm in it at all. Once people talk to you and realize that you have been here for a long time most of these questions rarely ever come up if at all.

And going back to my analogy of going to someones house , I would get a bit upset if I went to someones house several times and they kept asking me the same questions. However when meeting new people it is like going to all different peoples houses for the first time and each time you go to a new persons house you may inevitably be asked the same questions over and over, that is just the way it is.

And anyway, you yourself have let off steam about the way you're sometimes treated in Japan - eg the "modem man who spoke only to your wife and not to you." I think on that occasion you were pretty forthright in telling that person how they should treat you!

Like I said in that thread, it will depend on the person you are dealing with as to how they will deal with you, sure I was annoyed but does that mean everyone does that to me? No it doesn't, What I did was address the person involved and only the person involved which is the way it should be done instead of grouping the entire Japanese population as rude and inconsiderate. So the original posters demands to all of the Japanese reading the thread is just insulting and I am very disapointed with the lack understanding on his part.

[Glenski]

Once people talk to you and realize that you have been here for a long time most of these questions rarely ever come up if at all.

Maybe for you. I've been here 10 years and still get people who know me saying how well I use chopsticks and how good my Japanese is, and asking if I can eat certain Japanese foods. Sheesh. Get a grip. These are people who know how long I've been here.

[ASHIKAGA]

After having had lived in the United States for many years, people were still asking me the same questions regarding food, customs, etc. "Do you like American food?", "Would you prefer rice?", "Sorry, we only have the regular tea... (assuming I would prefer Green tea, which I do. lol). They still commented on things like my English ( "Your English is very good for a Japanese person."), on being away from home ( "Aww, it must be so hard for you to be away from your family!", "You must miss the food!"), on me being familiar with things you would think anyone who has lived there for 20 years would surely be familiar with ( "Wow, you know about so-and-so better than an American person!" ).

Like other members have been saying in this and other threads, people in general tend to have pre-conceived ideas about "foreigners". The process of getting used to the idea of some of us who have been in their countries/cultures for a long time (or regardless of the amount of time spent there, I suppose...)and have a good knowlege of the countries/cultures/languages.

While I do understand why some of you get annoyed when complimented on your expert chopstick skills, I would not make an issue out of it. In the future, they will come in contact with more and more foreigners like you and slowly, their reactions will change.

I always try to look at each situation from THEIR point of views. You grow up not having much experience meeting foreigners. All you know of them, you have learned from how they are portrayed in the media. Then comes a foreigner who does not fit your idea of one. Would that completely shatter the image/idea of the foreigner you've had in your head? Maybe...Maybe not. But at least now you know ONE foreigner who is different. Soon, you will meet another, then another...

I just try to be patient and explain to them that there are many of "us" out there and maybe go one step further with those I know well and hint at how silly some of the questions may sound to some WITHOUT making it into a big speech.

As long as it takes to change people's perspectives on things, it also takes just one incident with a single individual to cast a dark cloud over an entire country. Let us all remember that whenever we find ourselves in another country/culture, whether we like it or not, we are representing our home country and its people.

Like I said earlier, I really do understand your frustration. One time back in my college days, I came home to Japan with an American friend of mine. My mother went and bought 10 burgers from McDonald's for dinner the first night. She had thoght, because he was American, 1. He likes burgers. 2. He eats a lot. He thought that was really funny and was a good sport about eating 3 of them in addition to the sushi my father had prepared. The remaining 5 ( I had 2 myself at dinner ) became our late night snack and breakfast ( hey, we were college students!). After having him live with us for a month, however, my family had learned, I think, to look at him as an individual rather than a "foreigner".

Sorry for the long post. Please get back to your discussion. It is only healthy to let off some steam about our pet-peeves and this is a good place for it.

[FrustratedDave]

Maybe for you. I've been here 10 years and still get people who know me saying how well I use chopsticks and how good my Japanese is, and asking if I can eat certain Japanese foods. Sheesh. Get a grip. These are people who know how long I've been here.

I can make a comment to a friend of mine who Japanese on how beautiful his handwritten Kanji is several times over a period of time and keep doing it, just b/c I am in awe on how good he is. He is Japanese and is expected to write Japanese, so me complimenting him on his beautiful handwritting several times even though it is a given that he can write kanji is an offense to him? I actually thought this would be a compliment.

Can no one take these comments for what they are, instead of reading so deep into them and assume that the other party is showing extreme ignorance on his/her part?

I think ASHIKAGA again made some really good points about this. People should listen to his experiences more as he is on the other side of the coin. People just fail to realise that they themselves do the exact same thing and there home country to foriegners and just not realise they are.
But are so quick to accuse others without looking in the mirror first.

[JimmySeal]

Can no one take these comments for what they are, instead of reading so deep into them and assume that the other party is showing extreme ignorance on his/her part?

I think comments like the ones described in this thread are often taken the wrong way, but there are some that can't be seen any other way than displaying either (a) a considerable degree of ignorance, or (b) a very patronizing manner, such as お箸使えるの？すご〜〜〜い！ when nearly every civilized person in the world can use chopsticks, or うわ� � 。日本語上手！from a new acquaintance, when all you've uttered is はじめまして.

[FrustratedDave]

I think comments like the ones described in this thread are often taken the wrong way, but there are some that can't be seen any other way than displaying either (a) a considerable degree of ignorance, or (b) a very patronizing manner, such as お箸使えるの？すご〜〜〜い！ when nearly every civilized person in the world can use chopsticks, or うわ� � 。日本語上手！from a new acquaintance, when all you've uttered is はじめまして.

But the thing is, I won't say all, but almost all Japanese when they meet someone for the first time it is just commone sense to fire an array of compliments in the manner that you speak. Eg, when people meet and they say how beautiful the other persons wife is even though she may be challenged in that area (� なたの奥さんですか？　わぁ〜〜きれいですね）, or they might commpliment you on something you own even though they don't like it. ect ,ect . Again , I will say that if anyone is taking these kind of comments to heart then you have not fully understood the Japanese culture(Or you have an are unwilling to accept it) or the tiny nuances that come with the language and the fact that they are 9 times out of 10 saying something that is just common sense, not an intent to patronize or a show of ignorance　towards foriegners.

And Jimmy can everyone use chopsticks? I know that 95% of the people in my family can't and I have 53 cousins, 15 aunti and uncles. The ones that can use them are half chinese as my uncle is married to someone who is of chinese decent. My family is of European decent.

[ASHIKAGA]

Iお箸使えるの？すご〜〜〜い！ when nearly every civilized person in the world can use chopsticks, or うわ� � 。日本語上手！from a new acquaintance, when all you've uttered is はじめまして.

Those examples do sound very familiar. I am curious to know what everyone's response would be when finding yourselves on the receiving end of such "compliments".

[FrustratedDave]

Those examples do sound very familiar. I am curious to know what everyone's response would be when finding yourselves on the receiving end of such "compliments".

I personally don't mind at all b/c there is no ill intent what so ever.

[Glenski]

Those examples do sound very familiar. I am curious to know what everyone's response would be when finding yourselves on the receiving end of such "compliments".

Chopsticks compliment:
"It's not that hard."

Language compliment:
"No, not really."

[becki_kanou]

Those examples do sound very familiar. I am curious to know what everyone's response would be when finding yourselves on the receiving end of such "compliments".

I occasionally find it a little annoying to be complimented this way (again), but as someone else said, people are not saying these things out of ill-will, so why get worked up about it?

I usually just brush it off with a まぁ〜 or a それほどでも... but sometimes I'll give a little explantion like 他の国でも日本料理や中華料理が人気なので、お箸を使 える人は結構いますよ。

[A ke bono kane kotto]

I am finding it hard to see the relation to your analogy and the intent of the original post??? I have never been treated like a baby.
Don't do the following things or act this way.
#1. Ask questions about food
#2. Ask questions about the weather & seasons
#3. Ask questions regarding general abilities
#4. Addressing a Westerner in a public place
#5. If addressed by a Westerner in Japanese
Just b/c the original poster can now do all the things he stated or has now reached a level where he does not want to be asked or acted upon in a certain way all Japanese should not ask these things??? That to me me is the height of arrogance.

Do you really have to learn and practise to be able to eat sushi or be used to different seasons ?

Anyway the OP made some point about the way the Japanese should ask their questions and proposed better alternatives. I think that it is praiseworthy. I agree that I would be at a loss if someone asked me if I could eat fish. Can I, if you defy me ? Do I like fish in general ? What fish in particular ? Do I want to eat some now ? I wouldn't know what to think and how to answer such a question.

I had no idea what Japanese foods I could or could not eat and I learnt a great deal from questions about what food I could or could not eat.

So how did you answer the questions ? Say, if you have never eaten natto and people asked you if you could eat it, what would you answer ? Well, I suppose that you had better try all kind of foods quickly if you didn't want to answer "I don't know" every time you were asked.

I haven't lived in Japan, but I would be annoyed if people always asked me the same questions all the time. When I visited the country I was asked such questions by a lot of people I met. It must get tiring after a while. I don't think that is a sensible way to socialise.

Questions about the weather, I did not even know that Japan had seasons were so different. Where I come from spring summer and autum are almost the same temperature.... very hot, so there is no four seasons like japan where I came from.

Come on, 90% of Westerners come from temperate regions with 4 seasons. If you come from Florida or Arizona you are really the exception rather than the rule. All Europe is temperate.

Every now and again I get asked what I can eat and what I don't like, but isn't that only natural for people to be curious of someone who has come from a different culture?

Do you ask Japanese people what they can eat and can't eat ? I would ask people what are their favourite dishes or what they dislike in general, but not be specific about a dish (let's say spaghetti vongole) and ask everyone I meet if they can eat it.

[pipokun]

I agree that I would be at a loss if someone asked me if I could eat fish.

Can I, if you defy me ?
If yes, he/she may suggest to order fish
If no, the guy may suggest something different.
If you don't want fish then, the guy may order what you like.

Do I like fish in general ?
Ask him/her. Nobody expects you to give somebody one right answer, and that is the communication, a chain of questions and answers, wherever you are or whoever you talk to. Of course, you have an option to stop talking.

What fish in particular ?
Ditto.

Do I want to eat some now ?
Ditto.

I wouldn't know what to think and how to answer such a question.
Ditto.


About the seasons, just ask a Japanese person a simple question, "Did you learn 4 seasons ONLY in Japan at school. If possible, you start talking to your own 4 season embedded or coded culture with him/her.

[caster51]

You are assuming that a foreigner in Japan cannot live there as if he were "home". Foreigners in Japan, like in any other country, can also buy their house in Japan and be part of society, as opposed to temporary guests or tourists.

I was born and grew up in a different country from where I have lived for half of my life until now. I find it offensive that people would think that I am just a guest after so many years. That is why I sympathise with the OP

A lot of foreigners think it to be a very unpleasant ...
however, most of them will go home sooner or later...
of course, if you have a family in japan and a certain purpose of future in japan, it would be another story.

anyway, these are nice ,,

Japan is different from your home country. Unless you grew up in Japan, you will counter many cultural differences. Some may be pleasant surprises, some might not. When you can't do or get something you're used to, deal with it. That's life here. Beware of the phrase "Where I'm from." Japan is not where you are not where you are from, so don't expect things to be the same. It sounds obvious, but the first time you try to do something you can't do, you will be frustrated. Deal with it, as that's all you can do. The more you try to live like a native, the easier time you'll have. And on that note...

There are a lot of cultural rules. Try to learn them. There are a lot of cultural do's and dont's, and there is a big difference between what is legal and what's socially acceptable. You won't get arrested for drinking beer on the train and loudly talking, but it's rude. Even if you don't care, every time a non-Japanese person makes an *** of themselves, it makes everyone look bad. There are plenty of books on etiquette in Japan, so pick one up or check one out at your library

People will like/dislike you because you're different. Know this. Some people are racist. If you've never dealt with racism, you may very well in Japan. People will treat you differently just because you're not Japanese. Some people will love you just for being a foreigner, some will hate you. There is nothing you can do about it, so just accept it and try to enjoy it when you can.

Don't ask too many questions. It's great to ask questions! It's a great way to learn, but you will find some things that make NO sense. Don't try to figure everything out, because you'll only get frustrated. Sometimes things are the way they are just because that's how they are and that's how they've been for a long time. Accept things the way they are and don't question it. Some answers you will find in time and some you won't. That's life.

HAVE FUN! Japan is a great place to live if you can put up with the downsides and enjoy the ups. Cultural and language barriers can be rough, so can social interactions, as the way people interact is quite different, but that's life. Make your time in Japan the best you can, if it's just a few months, a few years, or life.

http://notjustvisiting.blogspot.com/...&max-results=6

[Skipphead]

Wow. My blog was linked. Thanks for reading.

I thought I'd weigh in on the chopsticks/eating/seasons/etc. comments. I've got some understanding of sociology from studying in America and Japan.

For the "Can eat" thing, it's purely semantics. Saying "can" implies a physical ability. Of course I CAN, but it doesn't mean I WANT TO. Asking "Do you like" is way better. There are food allergy/dietary concerns but that generally isn't why the question is asked. When my friends ask me if I can, I tell them it's not a big deal, but next time it's better to say "do you like?"

For the chopsticks, it does get annoying, but mainly because it's based on previous stereotypes that due to my home country/race I can't do something, which is mildly insulting. Sure, a lot of people can't use chopsticks, but if you live in Japan, it should be assumed you can handle them. Instead of getting angry or frustrated, I simply ask people "Why shouldn't I be able to?" and try to reconstruct their stereotypes.

For the 4 seasons, I say that Northern California does not have 4 distinct seasons, but Boston very much does. I don't feel the need to ask why they think only Japan has 4 seasons, but if someone keeps mentioning it, I will ask them why they believe Japan is unique in this way, which usually goes back to education.

As for over dramatic language compliments, I understand Japanese culture enough to know such compliments are part of society, but the only time I am really puzzled is when people say my Japanese is great when I only speak English to them, which has happened a lot. In reality, there aren't very many foreigners in Japan that are good at Japanese, so it is an appropriate reaction to be surprised.

As far as addressing someone in Japanese and being responded to in English, I am aware that I have an American English accent when I speak Japanese, and it would be naive of me to assume the person I'm talking to didn't pick up on this. It can be frustrating, but I know the people I'm talking to are usually genuinely trying to help. If I don't understand someone's poor English, I find that it's a lot better to ask for clarification in Japanese. The pointing and gestures are rude and Japanese people should be aware of that, but I don't find it bothersome, I just wish Japanese people were aware that it could be considered so.

My girlfriend has had a bit of a similar problem, as she is Japanese, speaks fluent English and dresses much more European than most Japanese women. When with me, I've seen more than once people start talking to her in English. She gets annoyed when it's in business situations like banks and shops, but when it's some guy on the street, she lets them have their fun and pretends she's from Ireland (where she used to study).

As far as being addressed in a public place, it rarely happens to me, but when it does I am a bit surprised. I live in Tokyo, and it's uncommon to randomly talk to a stranger here, so it's outside cultural norms to do such, and the assumption that I'm a foreigner so it's okay is a bit offensive. It's also not rare to see a foreigner here, tourist or otherwise. When I travel outside the Tokyo metropolitan area, I often get someone trying to strike up a conversation. I don't know the cultural rules of small towns, but I assume it's odd to talk to (Japanese) strangers, but I am aware that while traveling, especially with my camera, I look like a tourist because I am one. Does anyone have an opinion on talking to strangers in small towns?

What it all really comes down to is education. Japanese people are not really educated on how to deal with non-Japanese, or often worse, falsely educated due to stereotypes and prejudice. It does no one any good to take offense to often well intended but misguided comments. The best that can be done is whenever someone says something that they shouldn't, try in a friendly or joking manner to correct them and move on with life.

Sorry for the long post, but I found the topic really interesting.

[A ke bono kane kotto]

For the 4 seasons, I say that Northern California does not have 4 distinct seasons, but Boston very much does.

When I read this thread I didn't think about how Americans would answer the 4 season question. As a European I assumed that a country either had 4 seasons or didn't (in the case of tropical countries). But now I realise the irony in the Japanese stereotypes discussed here. On the one hand they frequently assume that a Westerner is American, and on the other they ask these supposed Americans if their country has 4 seasons. How could an American answer that without explaining the huge climatic variations between Alaska and Hawaii. I suppose that 3/4 of US states have 4 seasons, and only the southern ones don't. But the same is true of Japan. Okinawa is as tropical as Florida or Hawaii.

[Skipphead]

A lot of foreigners think it to be a very unpleasant ...
however, most of them will go home sooner or later...
of course, if you have a family in japan and a certain purpose of future in japan, it would be another story.

It is true that most foreigners do leave eventually, but it's rude to assume they will.

Glad you liked my post. Foreigners here may or may not be temporary guests, but they are living in a country with different cultural rules than their home land. I'm sure most people here for the long haul have no problem with that. On the other hand, Japanese people need to take a long look at how they deal with foreigners. Of course, that is not at all unique to Japan, but Japan is the topic here.

[starlitdreams2]

It is true that most foreigners do leave eventually, but it's rude to assume they will.
Glad you liked my post. Foreigners here may or may not be temporary guests, but they are living in a country with different cultural rules than their home land. I'm sure most people here for the long haul have no problem with that. On the other hand, Japanese people need to take a long look at how they deal with foreigners. Of course, that is not at all unique to Japan, but Japan is the topic here.

If more peoples came and stayed in Japan eventually more acceptance of other cultures would develop.... but it has to permeate tv and movies first.

[Glenski]

A lot of foreigners think it to be a very unpleasant ...
however, most of them will go home sooner or later...

Does anyone else but me see the connection between these two lines of thought?

BTw, i think Japan has five seasons.

Yup, in parts of the USA, too. It's called road repair.

BTw, i think Japan has five seasons.
There are 24 seasons in the Japanese calendar .

More self-contradictory gibberish.
5 vs 24? Pick.

[undrentide]

BTw, i think Japan has five seasons.
There are 24 seasons in the Japanese calendar .

More self-contradictory gibberish.
5 vs 24? Pick.

The first sentence seems to be caster's own idea, and I think caster is referring to 二十四節気 with the second one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_term
(Actually it originally came from China, so it is not "Japanese calendar", to be precise...)

Sorry, this post is off-topic-ish, and and the above is just an observation, I'm not particularly for or against caster's opinion about the seasons in Japan.

[Onitsuka ChihiroLove]

Wow...beautiful text. I was long interested in the relationship between respect and politeness. I knew that in Japan there is a lot of politeness, but I didn't know if they really respected foreigners...so I went into google and typed "Japanese respect vs politeness" and somehow I stumbled onto this article. I am very very ignorant about Japanese culture, I have never been to Japan, all I know about Japan is their music and a little bit of the food (at least, I know the version they serve in my country). So yes I started to love Japan because people seemed SO nice and so kind and so considerate of others...but also I heard about how they perceived foreigners, and it broke my heart a little bit...because I am planning to live in Japan and be an architect there (I love Japanese modern architecture)...so I didn't want Japanese to hate me I am 19 years old and I have everything to discover...right now, after reading 5 pages of the threads spread out on 3 years in this forum (wow!), and after reading that text you put up, I think I am totally, fully 100% willing to to go Japan and submit myself to the culture there! I am full-heartedly willing to accept the way they see me as a stranger, to accept the way they treat me and treat each other, and I am totally willing to learn not just to accept, but learn to LOVE the cultural rules and cherish them. As a Lebanese living in Montreal, I will be a foreigner in Japan, and I am willing to accept my place in the Japanese society, not try to obtain a place in society that is not mine. I will contribute to the society in the manner that is suited for me...okay all of this is to say that I am very very excited to meet Japanese society for the first time in my life and of course there are good and bad sides to all nations, but if I want to have my place there, I have to accept and love those aspects. I speak Arabic, French and English and there's a saying in French that says ''Il faut de tout pour faire un monde'' meaning ''It takes some of everything to make the world we live in''...I think this applies to societies also, it takes all kinds of people to make the Japanese society, so let's just accept the rules, the cultural differences, love them, love the people and their ways, and live peacefully together...and as foreigners, WE should comply to THEIR lifestyle and ways of socializing. Not them. Finally , there's a saying that says something like ''We cannot blame others for their ignorance, as ignorance is different from evil.'' It means that if someone hurts you because of their ignorance, don't blame them. Don't hate them. They didn't make it on purpose, their intentions were not evil...indeed ignorance is not evil...we should recognize that.
Sorry for the long post!! I've been reading ALL the posts for HOURS!

[Onitsuka ChihiroLove]

and if a Japanese person asks us if we can eat something, we should not be hurt...it wasn't their intention to hurt us. We should consider the INTENTION of the person...and I am sure if we consider that, we will come to realize that most of the time people have good intentions, even if what they say sounds rude to us. It sounds rude just because of the cultural difference, but that doesn't take away the fact that they have no bad intentions as to hurt us! So let's erase the word ''racism'' from this thread...what we talk about here is ignorance about one another, and cultural gaps...that can all be bridged through conversations. Conversation can solve all the problems discussed in this article I believe. Racism is really out of subject here. Wow I am so excited about going to Japan and applying all that "FrustratedDave", "Ashikaga", "Pipokun", "Caster51", "Skipphead" and so many others expressed in this article. I have really learned so much...thank you all.