For our Japanese readers : Things you should not say to Westerners

[GameOver]

edit: long post, sorry but i got into the swing of responding...

Originally Posted by Maciamo
That's the Japanese dilema. Inferior but superior. They want to prove themselves superior (and hundreds of books were written on the subject in the 1980's), but still feel inferor because their movies never equal Hollywood, their artists rarely rival Western ones, their best baseball players move to the US, Japan is not nearly as beautiful as countries like France, Italy, the UK, Australia, or the US, Japan will always be behind the West historically, and as I see it Japan is set to stay a political dwarf subjugated to the US on the international scene.

i think this is possibly linked to their insular and... (how embarrassing for the word to escape me on line one of my response! >.<) lets say kohai/senpai | age/sage etc. mindset whereby appreciating someone else's talents automatically makes you inferior to them. its a cultural system which discourages equality to a certain extent... for example, even two similar people (age, gender, job, position, family) may be judged by society as 'this one is better than this one' because A-san's children are doing better at school, or B-san's wife follows a more traditional lifestyle and is thus more acceptable. both A-san and B-san will be aware of this societal judgement and perhaps pre-empt it by acknowledging the other's strength or admitting their own shortcomings, a perfectly standard reaction. but with gaijin, they have no frame of reference other than the stated annoying questions, assumedly learned from outdated interactions that have been mimicked over time... i wonder in fact, given the law of politeness found in japan, if it is considered rude not to ask these questions of foreigners? no implication of such by users in a thread almost 4 years old kinda indicates that's not the case, but i do wonder...

Originally Posted by Rich303
will say this though, I bet I would find it less insulting than being spat at or having my sexuality questioned because I wouldn't give a girl I didn't know a cigarette, both of which have happened to me quite recently in the UK.

being spat is highly unneccessary in pretty much every encounter someone could have, but come on, gettin called a homo is a standard insult in the uk, same as he wouldnt actually have been questioning your paternal bonds is he called you a bastard. that said, good on you for giving up the smokes! i hate strangers asking me for things in general, but when they react as if it's their right... man... ok not ranting today!

Originally Posted by ASHIKAGA
me being familiar with things you would think anyone who has lived there for 20 years would surely be familiar with ( "Wow, you know about so-and-so better than an American person!" ).

i agree with your sentiments, but this one stood out for me as i've experienced similar in my own country by visiting europeans and natives. the people i have worked with from europe were often surprised at local ignorance at aspects of the country you'd think people would know (location of famous buildings, people from history etc), "fair enough" one may think, "cultural differences mean they place a higher priority on knowing these aspects" however... i was born and raised in london, and have since moved to 2 other cities in the UK, people would often ask me this that or the other about london, as it's an area of interest to many simply because it's the capital, but 90&#37; i wouldnt be able to answer these questions, 50% of the time i would say i had zero knowledge of what they were asking "i dont know, what's that?!" (probably more, but i dont want to make myself seem entirely ignorant). my point is, people from a place often dont care about that place because it's ever present and dull, and those from elsewhere often know more about it because they have an interest, but cannot experience it, so they build a knowledge base to help them imagine it. i dont think it's uncommon for 'out-of-towners' (aka gaijin) to know more about a place than a local.

Originally Posted by FrustratedDave
I can make a comment to a friend of mine who Japanese on how beautiful his handwritten Kanji is several times over a period of time and keep doing it, just b/c I am in awe on how good he is. He is Japanese and is expected to write Japanese, so me complimenting him on his beautiful handwritting several times even though it is a given that he can write kanji is an offense to him? I actually thought this would be a compliment.

this is not a comparitive situation. your skilled friend would take that as a compliment because he is skilled in a native area. if however, you continuously complimented his handwritten english regardless of his skill, he may take offence because you would be drawing attention to the fact that he is using a foreign script and hence saying he's skilled may suggest you never realised that people who use ideaograms were able to write using roman letters.

Originally Posted by FrustratedDave
You have after all been living here for 10 years or more and should realise by now that compliments like these are part and parcel of Japan?

doesn't make it less annoying though. a similar phenomenon is often felt by british people in america, when shop clerks are overly eager to assist a customer shopping (feels like you're being pressured), but its still standard procedure. and to make it fair (i feel im being too anti-everywhere) many european friends find it ridiculous that you are expected to have chips/fries with every meal when eating out over here. (it's not true, but... well, it kinda is true enough to see their point at least)

WOO POTATOES!

Originally Posted by leander
I do plan, as Glenski suggested, to "keep it light". I agree with FrustratedDave (and probably most, if not all, of the others here) that such things as "日本語上手！" to a ”はじめまして” are seldom if ever born of ill-intent and are not as big of a deal as they seem to have become on this thread. As FD and some others seem to suggest, at least some of the fault lies with foreigners who negatively interpret what has been said.

i guess i half agree with you, i don't believe this process is deliberatly insulting, it's not like they're being sarcastic, and taking offence will make you get annoyed faster than if you take it lightly, but... it doesnt make these questions any less insipid and/or mindless. i would equate it to praising a child for a picture scrawled in crayon, you say to the child "wow! that's amazing! well done!" but realistically, its a piece of crap, it's only praiseworthy because they are at that level and to treat foreigners in this way is insulting. i wouldnt mind if my japanese was amazing and someone praised me for it, assuming i had demonstrated said amazingness and not just uttered ”はじめまして"

i'll save other thoughts for a future post because that was painfully long...

[A ke bono kane kotto]

lets say kohai/senpai | age/sage etc. mindset whereby appreciating someone else's talents automatically makes you inferior to them. its a cultural system which discourages equality to a certain extent...

That's an interesting point ! I haven't given much thought before, but it could be true. Japanese people will tell you that Japan is an egalitarian society, but interractions always seem to have one person outranking the other(s). This could be a desperate way to distinguish themselves from their neighbour in this overly homogenous and egalitarian society.

But is being complimented on one's Japanese a sign that the complimenter think of you as hierarchically superior ?

[Glenski]

but with gaijin, they have no frame of reference other than the stated annoying questions, assumedly learned from outdated interactions that have been mimicked over time... i wonder in fact, given the law of politeness found in japan, if it is considered rude not to ask these questions of foreigners? no implication of such by users in a thread almost 4 years old kinda indicates that's not the case, but i do wonder...

Politeness has nothing to do with it. It's all curiosity based on a (still) insular mentality.

my point is, people from a place often dont care about that place because it's ever present and dull, and those from elsewhere often know more about it because they have an interest, but cannot experience it, so they build a knowledge base to help them imagine it. i dont think it's uncommon for 'out-of-towners' (aka gaijin) to know more about a place than a local.

I agree to a point, but have you watched the quiz shows here? Some of the questions center around being able to identify people or locations (in or outside Japan) from their pictures. The same people or locations crop up all the time. Rote memorization again. They know where the XYZ obelisk is in Japan because they have seen it on TV so many times. They know a certain writer for the same reason.

Originally Posted by FrustratedDave
I can make a comment to a friend of mine who Japanese on how beautiful his handwritten Kanji is several times over a period of time and keep doing it, just b/c I am in awe on how good he is. He is Japanese and is expected to write Japanese, so me complimenting him on his beautiful handwritting several times even though it is a given that he can write kanji is an offense to him? I actually thought this would be a compliment.

this is not a comparitive situation. your skilled friend would take that as a compliment because he is skilled in a native area.

"Skilled"? Japanese spend 12 years of their lives endlessly learning about 2000 kanji with exacting stroke order and shape (and a zillion meanings to go with various pronunciations). It is not a skill, as much as it is a part of their lives.

if however, you continuously complimented his handwritten english regardless of his skill, he may take offence because you would be drawing attention to the fact that he is using a foreign script and hence saying he's skilled may suggest you never realised that people who use ideaograms were able to write using roman letters.

Personally, if someone told me continuously something like that, I'd slap him for the repetition. Once, thanks. Twice, gee you're really impressed with this thing I've been FORCED to do. Three times, get over it.

Originally Posted by FrustratedDave
You have after all been living here for 10 years or more and should realise by now that compliments like these are part and parcel of Japan?

doesn't make it less annoying though. a similar phenomenon is often felt by british people in america, when shop clerks are overly eager to assist a customer shopping (feels like you're being pressured), but its still standard procedure

Sorry, but now it is you who is not comparing fairly. Sales people have a vocational obligation to do that. Japanese people asking those insipid questions are just curious.

it doesnt make these questions any less insipid and/or mindless. i would equate it to praising a child for a picture scrawled in crayon, you say to the child "wow! that's amazing! well done!" but realistically, its a piece of crap, it's only praiseworthy because they are at that level

Again, I think you are comparing apples and oranges here. Someone says "arigato" and only that, and a Japanese person will toss out compliments on his Japanese language ability. Gimme a break. You don't even KNOW my level, and even so, to dispense compliments over just a word or two is silly and UNrealistic.