Have you encountered discrimination or prejudices in Japan ?

[Reyter]

I'm glad for your sake to hear that English isn't your first language. I can't be sure how well you speak it, only how you write. Moving on...

Your disdain for the police is noted, but throwing around disparaging terms all the time is weary for me, and is not conducive to productive conversation.

I think the common ground we have is that I am all for foreigners (and anyone else, for that matter) being fully aware of their rights and knowing how to exercise them. However, I think it's equally important to have a common understanding of those rights, and the good sense of knowing when to exercise them. If you are belligerent and confrontational with the police, I think they would be less inclined to simply leave it at that, especially if they don't share your interpretation of the law. You may find yourself in more trouble than you bargained for. Nothing can make your hell quite like a bureaucracy, and the Japanese are experts at bureaucracy.

....when did I insult you? I'll requote myself and bold the relevant part
The misunderstanding is on your side, I'm afraid. I have yet to have insulted you in any deliberate way, and if you can't extend the same courtesy then there's no point in responding anymore.

It is beside the point, and again, if you continue to attack people that disagree with you, this conversation will simply end.

It doesn't matter what is acceptable to me. Do what you do, and if you'd like you can share your experience with us here. But I guarantee you people here will have an opinion about it, and insulting anyone is not going to improve that opinion.

Perhaps you see it that way, but my experience is different. It's also a play on words. It's also similar to a band from a couple decades ago (nice guyjin). But really, my user name is not pertinent to this discussion.

I just have a few points.
I was refferring to the "how delusional are you?" comment. Is that not an insult?

It is really disingenuous to lecture me on attacking people who disagree with me. Have a look through this thread and see who started attacking who first. I havent replied to either of them for some time but still...... they are dedicated. Of course if you care to look through this thread (I havent checked but I wonder if that guy has removed the comment about Debito being white skinned and born in USA.) would you say what I said about either of them isnt true?

Insofar as the police, because you have adopeted a civil tone I will do likewise in refferring to them as you seem not to like it otherwise. I dont neccessarily dislike them but when one is pulled up like he is a criminal 2 times and a third time after helping them, and having my details recorded, merely for having white skin, it tends to leave a negative impression. That is on an impression which wasnt very high to start with. I wasnt belligerent the first time and wouldnt go so far as to say that the second time though I wasnt cooperative either. Of course the third time, recently, I was extremely belligerent (only after they turned on me after I helped them). I guess those ones were smarter than average becasue it wouldnt have reflected well on them if i was arrested and the details of the situation became known to a judge or someone like that.

Insofar as my interpretation of the law, if others disagree thats fine. If I am stopped again i will test it and let you know what happens of you like. What no one disputes is that you have the right to first inspect their ID. As I have said several times, doing it slowly and publicly should be enough to humiliate them and discourage such behavior in the future. I just hope any foreigners who read this arent docile lackeys enough to just hand their I.D. over.

Finally, it just seems like several people who have replied to me have been beated down and abused so much they actually like it. Take the message by "Pachipro" as a classic example. I just got the impression giving yourself a username that is generally used as a derogatory term to be an example of this. It is basically the same as a 3 letter word (which I never use because I dont like to insult people on the basis of their race, ethnic group or nationality.) for Japanese people. The origin of the name isnt derogatory but it has come to be derogatory. Being a 外国人 here, I would hope that you would discourage people from using it because I dont want them to think they can use it with me.

[Chidoriashi]

[QUOTE=Reyter;644546]

It is really disingenuous to lecture me on attacking people who disagree with me. Have a look through this thread and see who started attacking who first. I havent replied to either of them for some time but still...... they are dedicated. Of course if you care to look through this thread (I havent checked but I wonder if that guy has removed the comment about Debito being white skinned and born in USA.) would you say what I said about either of them isnt true?

How about we look through all the "Police Harassment" threads and see who started getting the attitude, and saying inflammatory things to people first?

And why would I remove my comment about Debito? I explained why I said it. Do you think you somehow "got me"? Anyway, but that's right you don't read my posts because they show how you have been wrong this whole time. I keep on forgetting that you refuse to have regular dialogue with me about the law.

I dont neccessarily dislike them but when one is pulled up like he is a criminal 2 times and a third time after helping them, and having my details recorded, merely for having white skin, it tends to leave a negative impression. That is on an impression which wasnt very high to start with. I wasnt belligerent the first time and wouldnt go so far as to say that the second time though I wasnt cooperative either. Of course the third time, recently, I was extremely belligerent

You were acting belligerent and uncooperative and the police then started giving you are hard time??? Goodness gracious, imagine that! Well isn't this world just a topsy-turvy place.

Insofar as my interpretation of the law, if others disagree thats fine.

At first all I was trying to do was show you in a factual manner how your interpretation was incorrect. You are the one that has turned this into the fiasco it has become.

Finally, it just seems like several people who have replied to me have been beated down and abused so much they actually like it. Take the message by "Pachipro" as a classic example.

No, we are all just more sensible than you, and have a better understanding and acceptance for this wonderful country than you apparently will ever come close to having. You still cannot just see that you are the cause of your own troubles in this country. Whatever man, enjoy your bewildering misery and frustration.

[Mikawa Ossan]

Reyter, I'm just curious. Have you looked at the link I supplied here?
http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/showpo...8&postcount=94

It's not directly related to this particular discussion at hand, but they may be of assistance to you when you feel you have been wronged. If your girlfriend is Japanese, she can help you with any language issues you may face.

[FrustratedDave]

I just have a few points.
I was refferring to the "how delusional are you?" comment. Is that not an insult?
It is really disingenuous to lecture me on attacking people who disagree with me. Have a look through this thread and see who started attacking who first. I havent replied to either of them for some time but still...... they are dedicated. Of course if you care to look through this thread (I havent checked but I wonder if that guy has removed the comment about Debito being white skinned and born in USA.) would you say what I said about either of them isnt true?
Insofar as the police, because you have adopeted a civil tone I will do likewise in refferring to them as you seem not to like it otherwise. I dont neccessarily dislike them but when one is pulled up like he is a criminal 2 times and a third time after helping them, and having my details recorded, merely for having white skin, it tends to leave a negative impression. That is on an impression which wasnt very high to start with. I wasnt belligerent the first time and wouldnt go so far as to say that the second time though I wasnt cooperative either. Of course the third time, recently, I was extremely belligerent (only after they turned on me after I helped them). I guess those ones were smarter than average becasue it wouldnt have reflected well on them if i was arrested and the details of the situation became known to a judge or someone like that.
Insofar as my interpretation of the law, if others disagree thats fine. If I am stopped again i will test it and let you know what happens of you like. What no one disputes is that you have the right to first inspect their ID. As I have said several times, doing it slowly and publicly should be enough to humiliate them and discourage such behavior in the future. I just hope any foreigners who read this arent docile lackeys enough to just hand their I.D. over.
Finally, it just seems like several people who have replied to me have been beated down and abused so much they actually like it. Take the message by "Pachipro" as a classic example. I just got the impression giving yourself a username that is generally used as a derogatory term to be an example of this. It is basically the same as a 3 letter word (which I never use because I dont like to insult people on the basis of their race, ethnic group or nationality.) for Japanese people. The origin of the name isnt derogatory but it has come to be derogatory. Being a 外国人 here, I would hope that you would discourage people from using it because I dont want them to think they can use it with me.

Typical foriegner who thinks their rights should be above those of the native citizens. You are in another country that is not yours so why do you expect to be treated above that of its citizens? Don't bother answering I don't think I could stand other stupid reply...

And I have no problem throwing insults toward a person who who is as shortsighted, ignorant, obtuse and belligerent as you are.

Still waiting for the phone number of the place that that lady works at, I am sure she would not mind a phone call to confirm an iterpretation on the law.

[nice gaijin]

I was refferring to the "how delusional are you?" comment. Is that not an insult?

No, because I was trying to clarify what you were saying, and I asked "are you really that delusional," because frankly, if you really did think that foreigners should revolt over the mandatory ID, I would think you were delusional.

Insofar as the police, because you have adopeted a civil tone I will do likewise in refferring to them as you seem not to like it otherwise. I dont neccessarily dislike them but when one is pulled up like he is a criminal 2 times and a third time after helping them, and having my details recorded, merely for having white skin, it tends to leave a negative impression. That is on an impression which wasnt very high to start with. I wasnt belligerent the first time and wouldnt go so far as to say that the second time though I wasnt cooperative either. Of course the third time, recently, I was extremely belligerent (only after they turned on me after I helped them). I guess those ones were smarter than average becasue it wouldnt have reflected well on them if i was arrested and the details of the situation became known to a judge or someone like that.
Insofar as my interpretation of the law, if others disagree thats fine. If I am stopped again i will test it and let you know what happens of you like. What no one disputes is that you have the right to first inspect their ID. As I have said several times, doing it slowly and publicly should be enough to humiliate them and discourage such behavior in the future. I just hope any foreigners who read this arent docile lackeys enough to just hand their I.D. over.
Finally, it just seems like several people who have replied to me have been beated down and abused so much they actually like it. Take the message by "Pachipro" as a classic example. I just got the impression giving yourself a username that is generally used as a derogatory term to be an example of this. It is basically the same as a 3 letter word (which I never use because I dont like to insult people on the basis of their race, ethnic group or nationality.) for Japanese people. The origin of the name isnt derogatory but it has come to be derogatory. Being a 外国人 here, I would hope that you would discourage people from using it because I dont want them to think they can use it with me.

I think there's a matter of decorum that is important when you deal with these kinds of situations in Japan. Like it or not, you are viewed as a guest, and being visibly foreign will make you a target for discrimination both benign and tiresome. When you're stopped by the police, most of the time they are just doing their job and enforcing the law as they see it. This doesn't mean they're necessarily power hungry or looking to ruin your day. But the more of a fight you put up and refuse to cooperate, the more suspicious they're likely to become, and the less likely they are to let you get on your way. If you have a lot of free time and feel that your rights are being violated, go right ahead and exercise those rights, but realize that it's much more important how you say things than what you're saying in Japan. This is pretty apparent as the police will approach you as politely as possible, even if they're asking for your ID for no apparent reason. If you bristle up and get defensive, they're just going to pry deeper, and like it or not, they still probably know the law much better than you, and they are more than capable of looking for things that they can stick to you, or even worse, simply waste your time. 9 times out of 10, compliance is completely harmless, and you can just chalk it up to the experience of living as a foreigner in Japan. This isn't likely to change for a few foreigners that raise a stink when they're stopped by the cops.

As to the other guys, I understand tempers are high, and Reyter has been rather stubborn and belligerent himself, but that's no reason to stoop so low as to respond in kind. Let's try to be civil, or simply stop responding to him, it only fans the flames.

[Reyter]

No, because I was trying to clarify what you were saying, and I asked "are you really that delusional," because frankly, if you really did think that foreigners should revolt over the mandatory ID, I would think you were delusional.

Well excuse my poor English but i would have thought the question should have been put forward like this: "Are you delusional?" and I believe that may or may not be considered insulting. If you keep a civil tone, as will I and thus, its of no importance!

I think there's a matter of decorum that is important when you deal with these kinds of situations in Japan. Like it or not, you are viewed as a guest, and being visibly foreign will make you a target for discrimination both benign and tiresome. When you're stopped by the police, most of the time they are just doing their job and enforcing the law as they see it.

I act like a guest here and dont mind it at all. For example, I dont engage in political activities becasue i feel its not my place to even try and impose my political views on Japanese people. That all fine.

You really believe they are only enforcing the law as they see it? To randomly stop people with different color skin from the native people, demand to see and record the rather specific details on their I.D. and to question them is merely "doing their job as they see it" and merely doing that because the people are seen as guests????

I'm sorry, but I cant agree with that at all. It may have been the case in the late 1930s and early 40s. I beleive to prevent this sort of abuse and harrassment is the reason why the subsections in question were added to the law. and BTW; thats not how most people, Japnese or otherwise, treat guests at all.....

they still probably know the law much better than you.

If your earlier statement is true, abot them only enforcing the law as they see it, i think remembering how to read hiragana must be a tremendous drain on their powers of comprehension. I doubt they know much about the law at all.

9 times out of 10, compliance is completely harmless, and you can just chalk it up to the experience of living as a foreigner in Japan .

I dont like being pulled up by the police like I am a criminal simply because I have white skin. I will never just accept that and if it ever happens again I will follow the steps I ahve outlined a few times.

As to the other guys, I understand tempers are high, and Reyter has been rather stubborn and belligerent himself, but that's no reason to stoop so low as to respond in kind. Let's try to be civil, or simply stop responding to him, it only fans the flames.

I take it that means you have had a look through the thread to see who started spitting insults at me first.
BTW: I have stopped responding to them but unfortunately I cant stop them replying to this message or earlier messages.

[Chidoriashi]

[QUOTE]

You really believe they are only enforcing the law as they see it? To randomly stop people with different color skin from the native people, demand to see and record the rather specific details on their I.D. and to question them is merely "doing their job as they see it" and merely doing that because the people are seen as guests????

Have you ever thought that maybe they do this to make sure you are legally in this country, paying your taxes etc, and not because they are on a power trip out to get you?

I beleive to prevent this sort of abuse and harrassment is the reason why the subsections in question were added to the law.

Still going on about the law. Did you not see the link I posted, taking you back the website you have sited as supporting your view, were Debito clearly states in ENGLISH we don't have the right to refuse ID checks if the cops know the law.

I doubt they know much about the law at all.

And I think you would probably be making a mistake for doing so, the cops that helped me out knew the law very well.

I dont like being pulled up by the police like I am a criminal simply because I have white skin.

That's fine. I understand how you might feel this way. But you are in their country, and that is the way they do things here. You choice is to accept it, or go home. Reyter there is nothing significant you can really do unless you become a citizen, and join up with Debito. Do you honestly care that much? If you did I think you would have gave up posting here a long time ago and started going to the very few channels foreigners have here to protest things they disagree with.

BTW: I have stopped responding to them but unfortunately I cant stop them replying to this message or earlier messages.

No, you cannot huh. I can keep this up as long as you can. You are never going to have your doctrine in pristine condition sitting on this forum for all to see. I am so sorry that you think I keep on sullying your every post, but forums are for discussion. Why don't you just go start your own website or blog where you can post whatever you want, and then nobody can try and challenge your assertions?

[FrustratedDave]

I take it that means you have had a look through the thread to see who started spitting insults at me first.

You sound like a 3 year old.

BTW: I have stopped responding to them but unfortunately I cant stop them replying to this message or earlier messages.

You go girl!!!

[Mikawa Ossan]

Believe it or not, Reyter, but the link I supplied to you was a legitimate place for the advancement of human rights in Japan, dealing with all sorts of issues, including foreigner issues. I do not know how to interpret your lack of a response. Given your past relations with other members, I am tempted to fear the worst, however.

[Reyter]

Believe it or not, Reyter, but the link I supplied to you was a legitimate place for the advancement of human rights in Japan, dealing with all sorts of issues, including foreigner issues. I do not know how to interpret your lack of a response. Given your past relations with other members, I am tempted to fear the worst, however.

I'm sorry, I didnt see it until now. Thanks for that! I looked at it and that is definitely someone else to speak to if I am harrassed by the police again. I will check it more carefully in the next few days. There are only 2 members I had a problem with. One is an unabashed fascist and the otehr a simplistic fool! No problem anymore because I just chose to ignore them. Of course one more can be added to that list now. I will deal with that now and then ignore him too.