Exactly.Originally Posted by FirstHousePooka
I'm going to the next time he starts up with that...and it won't be long.Ask him why New Zealanders don' have the same mindset?
Exactly.
I'm going to the next time he starts up with that...and it won't be long.Ask him why New Zealanders don' have the same mindset?
i carry your heart with me(i carry it in my heart)
Why, Austalians are not islanders ? Well Australia doesn't have any land boundaries with other countries.
We could also add Britain, Malta, Cyprus, etc. None of these countries have the same "island mentality" as Japan (just a bot for Britain whe it comes to joining the euro, riding on the right, or stuff like that).
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"What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.
Heh I used NZ for its closer geographical size.
This report was on the radio last night. It's been said many times on this forum, and I hate to be redundant, but I thought it will clear your views a little more. I really hope they make new laws, and some drastic changes will be done against how foreigners are treated in Japan, or I don't want to go back there again.
den4 had posted the direct link.
Last edited by misa.j; Mar 19, 2005 at 09:06.
I just put the same story on another thread... LOL
but here is the direct download link:
http://www.theworld.org/content/03174.wma
the dailies keep getting changed, and people may have a hard time finding it again....
I know nothing...except the answer is 42. You know more than I do.
It won't play for me?
Thanks for the link, den4. Yeah, I kind of had a feeling the site would have totally different reports everyday, and that particular one would get lost.
I got the error message when I tried to attach the direct link, that said it was too big.
kirei, I hope it works for you because it's an interesting report.
I listened to the very interesting broadcast (alarming, to be honest!). I also downloaded it, so if you want one, I can mail it to you. But somebody needs to tell me how I can attach it to my PM's, or where the directions are.
Z: The fish in the water are happy.
H: How do you know ? You're not fish.
Z: How do you know I don't ? You're not me.
H: True I am not you, and I cannot know. Likewise, I know you're not, therefore I know you don't.
Z: You asked me how I knew implying you knew I knew. In fact I saw some fish, strolling down by the Hao River, all jolly and gay.
--Zhuangzi
I have added an important misconception to the list : Japanese used to be farmers, while Europeans used to be hunters
"Chinese and English are similar" that's the strangest thing I've ever heard. But then, most Westerns believe that Chinese and Japanese are very similar. When in fact, coming from someone who's studied both Chinese and Japanese, they're very different languages. However, it would probably make more sense for Chinese and Japanese to sound more similar than English and Chinese.
"Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot."
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
by Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens)
I may not have been the first to say it, but I do believe that Chinese & English share many interesting features. Please see this thread Write English in Kanji, post #13.
Chinese and Japanese are probably about as similar as English and French or something. But I don't know any Chinese or French, so what do I know?
For information on the pros and cons of teaching at Nova English schools in Japan, check out
What are some common Japanese misconceptions of people who look Indian (from India)? Just curious, since most of the talk seems to be how Japanese view white people.
Thanks for referring my idea, but that works for about all European languages (at least the Romance and Germanic ones + Greek). In fact, it works best of all with Greek. When I was 10-11 years old, we learnt the roots of Latin and Greek words at school (I suppose other European children did too), such as "democracy" comes from Greek "demos" (the people) and "cratos" (power") so power to the people.
Most of what Maciamo and some others scribble here is, frankly, beyond me.
I have been several times to Japan, befriended a fine and large japanese family in Chiba, had dinners and many social interactions with them and their friends.
"Can you eat with chopstiks?" - she asked me - 'no'. So WHAT? She still likes to kiss me, rather than a japanese chap. 4 seasons ? - nonsense.
Japanese superiority? If you are a bimbo, poorly dressed, shooting hot air, gold on your hands, wrists and the neck, dirty jeans and so forth, you will 'get it' everywhere on this melone.
Let's face it, foreigners who go to live in Japan are rarely the "brain surgeons".
I have seen there many and all kinds of foreigners with whom I would not care to sit down. Foreigners living in Japan are not a representative specs of theirs own countries. Too many "teachers", bartenders, "entertainers", too.
Many, of course, are just fine.
When in Japan, I still have to hear a provocative or thinly veiled question aimed at me. (I did hear it times and times again in N/A and in the "supercivilized" Europe.)
No, they are not perfect, but chopsticks, weather, 'all foreigners speak English' and so on, is a total pubertal nonsense.
Last edited by livi; Mar 29, 2005 at 07:23.
You must actually be an exception. How can you have spend some time (several weeks/months ?) in Japan and not be able to use chopsticks ? Does that mean you set your mind in not trying to ? Why ?
The theory of nihonjinron I referred to dates from WWII, and was revived in the Bubble Years, when the Japanese economy was growing so fast that many Japanese thought that their system was intrinsicly superior, owing to their superior culture. Have you never read about Japan to say such things ?Japanese superiority? If you are a bimbo, poorly dressed, shooting hot air, gold on your hands, wrists and the neck, dirty jeans and so forth, you will 'get it' everywhere on this melone.
Maybe not brain surgeons, but it seems to me that about half of the Westerners at least in central Tokyo are expats, i.e. usually top managers, financial analysts, embassy staff, etc. Did you know that one cannot get a working visa in Japan without a 4-year university degree ? That sets a minimum to what kind of people they accept as residents.Let's face it, foreigners who go to live in Japan are rarely the "brain surgeons".
What does that sentence mean ? Sit down ? Do you mean sit in the traditional seiza position, which most young Japanese people can't maintain properly for a full meal ?I have seen there many and all kinds of foreigners with whom I would not care to sit down.
Whatever, except for the entertainers that are mostly Asian, all must have a 4-year university degree. This indeed does not make it very representative of their country's population, which surprises me all the more knowing that so many Japanese believe that the recent rise in crime in Japan is due to foreigners in general (not just those from developing countries).Foreigners living in Japan are not a representative specs of theirs own countries. Too many "teachers", bartenders, "entertainers", too.
Maciamo, thank you for your views.
Chopstiks - as I wrote, I do not find eating with chopstics appealing - believe me, I am not a snob, but really I have even difficulty to watch someone to use them - it is simply to me - let's put it this way - unaesthetic. It may be due to some residual european bigotry in me, I plead guilty for it. It may be, that I have observed some 'wrong' people using them. My Japanese friends didn't mind it at all, they automatically asked for a fork for me. Not an issue at all.
Yes, many do feel superior, I suppose most of them would be old. I did not feel it, and here you are probably right, as I did not live there and more importantly, had never been engaged in any employment situation. The ones, that may look like that, to me were rather pitiful creatures, with arrogant manners on the train. My japanese companion noticed it, too. Of course, this you will find in many other, mainly european countries, which feel special by the nature of their history or achievements. I understand, that at the the work place it can be destructive.
I do not know exactly the working status of foreigners, but in Roppongi, many are whites, americans and europeans simply behind the bar or as waiters.
"Sit down" - I have learned it long ago, that you do not socialize with just anybody. I try to use my judgment. It pays off.
Finally, Maciamo, I did not use the word "normal", but you have to use your common sense , there is no better way yet around. I could name for you right now here at least one respected european country where you would face the same discrimination.
Some of the bad things we just have to accept, otherwise we would have to stay at home.
I may be somewhat prejudiced as I socialize here at home with some japanese girls-flriends and always had a ball in Japan. Became almost a part of a big family there in Chiba.
I've been to Japan 3 times, allogether I guess about 8 weeks. Not enough.
My regards to your japanese wife.
Last edited by livi; Mar 30, 2005 at 00:00.
You like you very much, don't you. That's nice; somebody should.
Nonsense that almost everytone here who has lived in Japan has been asked or accosted with numerous times.
accosted with what?
weather
chopsticks
leeching
do you eat sushi
do you speak english????
apt. not for foreigners? ( many are for foreigners only, so what?)
I have been twice to Australia and had been accosted with more nonsense than that!!!
I have been to over 40 countries and dwelled in some. Been in Canada many years, You should see this nonsense here, talk to some immigrants (as well as in Australia)and see the so called canadian justice. Yet in the world's view this country is the idol, a white lily.
Areyou saying people should grin and bear not getting access to apartments as we are all 'criminals'?
NICE!
Are you saying that as foreigners we must grin and bear being annoyed in public by scum suckers wanting to get free english lessons, regardless of the fact that you are reading, listening to music, hanging with your significant other or public?
NICE
Are you saying that people who have lived in Japan for a few years should be ok with people in their workplace, friends, family and people close to them still treating them like babies in terms of language ability, culinary selection and cutlery use?
NICE!
Do you think non-caucasian visitors to the country automatically being viewed as criminals and undesirable is nice ok?
VERY NICE!
Class act all round!
you are putting your words into my mouth - none of this i claim - only an idiot would
*i am older than you, but good looking too, not once had anyone 'accosted' me on the train or elsewhere - leeching. i wish some of the beautiful girls would (that would be rather rare in australia)
*apartments leasing has nothing to do with 'criminals' - you are exaggerating
*i myself own apts for rent and have to be careful - i had problems few times
*4 seasons - pardon me, that's childish
*at work - yes, that is often a legitimate complain, but try to compete at work in canada as a non anglosaxon foreigner or even worse a non white, they will show you!
you are angry, but i respect it.
but, then, why don't you go home to your wonderful australia?
perth is nice!
ah, yes, about the cutlery : i was born "with a spoon in my mouth" and never had even tried to use chopsticks. i do not find them appealing!!!
Ha ha ha. Finally a breath of fresh air.
And you reveal, in all of 3 posts, taht you are a petty troll taht must use petty little insults.
Well done sport.
But just for show...
Ignoring the obvious and untrue troll attempt, it has happened to a good many people taht have lived in Japan long term. Two of my favourites were the time I was playing Gameboy and had an onld lady plonk down near me with a notebook full of english notes and when me and my girlfriend were annoyed by a drunk salaryman who wanted to speak america.*i am older than you, but good looking too, not once had anyone 'accosted' me on the train or elsewhere - leeching. i wish some of the beautiful girls would (that would be rather rare in australia)
Theres a difference between being in a place where and when you want to socialise (IE a bar) and a place where its obvious you want to be left alone (reading a book or talking to friends on a train).
Nope, others will tell you that many landlords in japan refuse to lease to ANY gaijin as they assume all gaijin are criminals or destructive and will lose them money.*apartments leasing has nothing to do with 'criminals' - you are exaggerating
Result of a weak education system. I myself have never been bothered by the seasons thing though.*4 seasons - pardon me, that's childish
Funnily enough the levels I saw in japan were way higher than what happened in workplaces in Australia. But then your ony repsonse will be a petty troll flame bait wont it?*at work - yes, that is often a legitimate complain, but try to compete at work in canada as a non anglosaxon foreigner or even worse a non white, they will show you!
^Flamebait from a troll^you are angry, but i respect it.
but, then, why don't you go home to your wonderful australia?
perth is nice!
ah, yes, about the cutlery : i was born "with a spoon in my mouth" and never had even tried to use chopsticks. i do not find them appealing!!!
Did not read.
How long have you actually stayed in Japan ? I got from your post that you didn't live there, but just visited a few times, which is probably why you didn't experience most of these things.
This is a bit offtopic, but it took me over a year to start being annoyed by these things. In fact had I stayed only for a year, I would never have been checked by the police. The first time was almost 2 years after I came to Japan, and it was followed by 5 more times in one and a half year. If you don't ride a bicycle everyday (I didn't the first one and a half year), your chance of being bullied by the police are lower.
You will only realise how deeply ingrained and wide-spread some stereotypes and misconceptions about foreigners/westerners are after talking to hundreds of people from all over Japan (good point of Tokyo is that half of the people working there are not originally from the Tokyo region). I was not much annoyed aout some questions until being asked them again, and again, and again. I don't mind one or even 5 people ask me if I can use chopsticks or eat sushi, but when it becomes a routine and you can't have a friendly conversation (I mean non-business related) or going to a restaurant with new aquaintances without being asked those identical questions, and get the same dumb "oohh" and "aahh" or "ohashi no tsukaikata jozu desu ne", it becomes somewhat tiresome and you wonder if those people were taught to ask foreigners these questions, as it cannot be a coincidence on such a scale and regularity.
I realise that this may not be a problem for the short-term visitor, but it is for the long-stay resident.
Would you care to have a look at the articles in the Immigration & Foreigners subforum, and read the article Discrimination in Japan.*apartments leasing has nothing to do with 'criminals' - you are exaggerating
So do you ask people if they are "normal", meaning the same race as you ? (see this article) or does that allow you to post a sign with "no dogs or foreigners allowed", as has been seen several times (without legal consequence) in Japan ?*i myself own apts for rent and have to be careful - i had problems few times
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