Should all Japanese directly address foreigners in Japanese ?

[ArmandV]

Have you ever considered that the people who have it happen to them often enough and over a long enough period of time for it to begin to irritate them aren't short-term tourists here?

Yes, and it really shouldn't make any difference. Whether or not a person is a short-termer or long-termer in Japan, the fact is that he/she is still really a guest in their country and one has to expect things like this. To me, it is silly to get bent out of shape and let it irritate them.

I used to have breakfast at Denny's in Shibuya and every morning the hostess behind the cash register always spoke to me in Japanese. I wasn't offended (especially since she was a cutie with a cute voice).

Maybe people should suck it up and grin and bear it? (Just playing devil's advocate here, folks.)

[Maciamo]

I used to have breakfast at Denny's in Shibuya and every morning the hostess behind the cash register always spoke to me in Japanese. I wasn't offended (especially since she was a cutie with a cute voice).

You really seem to get it all the wrong way round ! The problem is that the Japanese tend too make too much fuss when dealing with foreigners (gestures + "sorry no speak english" when we talk to them in Japanese) instead of just talking normally as we Japanese(-looking) customers.

Another annoying thing we haven't mentioned yet is that when a Western-looking and a Japanese-looking person person are together, the Japanese you are talking to will always automatically turn toward the Japanese-looking person. If I am with my wife, no matter if I ask information about trains, ask for a receipt at the restaurant, check-in at the airport, or buy tickets at the cinema, the Japanese staff always answer my question back to my wife, just ignoring me. That is very irritating when one wants to practice one's Japanese.

But to show how stupid this Japanese mania really is, let me take these two cases. When I am with a Korean friend of mine, no matter whether we pay the bill at the restaurant or ask information in a department store, the Japanese always turn to my friend, who doesn't speak better Japanese than me (and actually asked me to ask the staff for this reason). But I also have a Canadian friend of Chinese origin, who doesn't speak much Japanese. Whenever we go somewhere in Tokyo, the Japanese always turn to him, while I am the one addressing them, because they think he is Japanese, while I am visibly not. I just hate the way Japanese are so disrespectful not to even answer to the person who is talking to them and avoiding them on purpose just because they don't "look" Japanese. Is there any more disrespectful nation on earth in this regard ?

[Keiichi]

Wow, this is an interesting point of view of the matter. Especially since I probably can never relate to the situation (since I look Japanese).
So generally, it all comes down to looks, and whether it looks like you can speak Japanese, or not...

Keiichi

[ArmandV]

You really seem to get it all the wrong way round !

Huh? This sentence does not make sense. Are you always this way to someone who has a different point of view?

I just hate the way Japanese are so disrespectful not to even answer to the person who is talking to them and avoiding them on purpose just because they don't "look" Japanese. Is there any more disrespectful nation on earth in this regard ?

Okay, since you put it that way, I can see your annoyance.

[Maciamo]

Huh? This sentence does not make sense. Are you always this way to someone who has a different point of view?

You said "I used to have breakfast at Denny's in Shibuya and every morning the hostess behind the cash register always spoke to me in Japanese, I wasn't offended (especially since she was a cutie with a cute voice).
".

What we have been discussing since the beginning of this thread is not that it is offending for a Japanese to address a foreigner in Japanese, but at he contrary, not to, assuming that they are too stupid to understand.

So it's not that I disagree with you, but I can't understand the point of this remark.

[ArmandV]

You said "I used to have breakfast at Denny's in Shibuya and every morning the hostess behind the cash register always spoke to me in Japanese, I wasn't offended (especially since she was a cutie with a cute voice).
".

What we have been discussing since the beginning of this thread is not that it is offending for a Japanese to address a foreigner in Japanese, but at he contrary, not to, assuming that they are too stupid to understand.

So it's not that I disagree with you, but I can't understand the point of this remark.

I think there was some confusion over the point of this thread. Other posters here have also indicated as such. Then you mentioned the manner of the Japanese persons ignoring you and talking to your wife instead. That cleared things up. I agree, it is thoughtless at least and just plain rude at worst.

As for the hostess, I had been in the restaurant several days straight and presented my money to the same hostess. Yet she still addressed me in Japanese even though I've indicated to her that I don't speak Japanese.

[Maciamo]

Yet she still addressed me in Japanese even though I've indicated to her that I don't speak Japanese.

Well, she could have the excuse of not being able to speak English or another language. However, when greeted with strange gestures, and the gestures continue when we start speaking Japanese, their only excuse would be to be mute, and in the cases I experienced they weren't as they talked to other customers.

[DoctorP]

Another annoying thing we haven't mentioned yet is that when a Western-looking and a Japanese-looking person person are together, the Japanese you are talking to will always automatically turn toward the Japanese-looking person. If I am with my wife, no matter if I ask information about trains, ask for a receipt at the restaurant, check-in at the airport, or buy tickets at the cinema, the Japanese staff always answer my question back to my wife, just ignoring me. That is very irritating when one wants to practice one's Japanese.

I've been reading this thread and holding back my response until now...I originally thought that you were blowing this out of proportion, but now I am unsure. I can say that I haven't had the same problems that you describe. On the contrary, I find that people are more willing to speak to me (the man) vice my wife. (and I will acknowledge that my Japanese is probably at a much lower level than yours!)

I will comment on one thing that you mentioned. Japanese responding to you in English instead of Japanese....maybe they want to practice as well?? Many of my friends will do this to me...which results in me speaking Japanese and them speaking English (which can make a very confusing conversation!) Also, sometimes I find myself interupting my wife's friends on the phone when they are searching for words in English, I cut them off in Japanese answering their question before it is even asked. Just another example of people wanting to practice on each other.

As for the dry cleaners and bento shop...maybe by using longer sentences (as you mentioned that you do sometimes) you are actually confusing them more? Some of these people are not the most educated themselves and would feel more comfortable using slang or shorter statements? (just a thought)

I only lived in Ibaragi for a short period, but I did not run in to the same problems as you and I was living in the countryside, so please understand that I am only commenting on my own experiences...I can not honestly comment on what you are experiencing since I am not there