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View Poll Results: How should Japanese deal with foreigners ?

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  • They should assume that they can't understand Japanese and use gestures

    4 2.76%
  • They should first ask them whether they can speak Japanese (either in Japanese or in English)

    92 63.45%
  • They should address them in Japanese and only use gestures or speak more slowly if the person doesn't understand

    49 33.79%
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Thread: Should all Japanese directly address foreigners in Japanese ?

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  1. #1
    TAN Hiroyuki Nagashima's Avatar
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    ここの議題について私は、よく理解していなかったよう に思います。
    翻訳ソフトを使った結果下記のように翻訳されました。
    「どのように、日本語は外国人を扱わなければならない か? 」
    「1.彼らは、彼らには日本語がわかることができなくて 、ジェスチャーを使うことができないと仮定しなければならない。」
    「2.彼らは、彼らが日本語(日本語では英語では)を話 すことができるかどうか、最初に彼らに尋ねなければな らない。」
    「3.人がわからないならば、彼らは日本語で彼らに講演 しなければならないか、ジェスチャーを使うだけで� るか、よりゆっくり話す。」

    選択1について。
    私は、英語を正しく話す自信が� りませんので
    自分が外国人の立場で考えたとき、英語で話しかけられ たら困ります。
    また、日本のジェスチャーと海外のジェスチャーはいくつか違うと聞いています。

    例えば、「ごめんなさい」や「� りがとう」を表すジェ スチャーは、両手を� わせて
    拝みます。
    また、「こっちに来て」は手のひらを下にして手を振り ますが、海外では「� っちに行け」となる
    らしい・・です。
    人の前を横切るとき、腰を屈めて片手を顔の前にだして 拝む形をとるのは日本独特だとも
    聞いています。

    選択2について。
    「日本語が話せなければ、相手にしない」といっている ようなものなので
    相手に対して� まりにも失礼です。

    選択3は
    翻訳の意味が不明だったので除外しました。

    東京で道を聞かれたときは、片言の英語と電子手� の英 語辞書で対応していました。


    もし、議題の意味が違っていましたらご指摘ください。
    英語に翻訳する自信が無いので、日本語で記載します。

  2. #2
    Chukchi Salmon lexico's Avatar
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    Thank you for posting that, Hiroyuki Nagashima-san.
    It helps to understand your vote, and possibly other things.
    I don't speak Japanese, but this is what Infoseek gave in machine translation.
    Is the translation correct?
    The title seems to be quite opposite from what I read.
    The translation says not as "How should the Japanese approach foreigners," but "How are the Japanese approaching foreigners."
    The original question in English, "How should the Japanese deal with foreigners" seems to have been mistranslated into Japanese.
    Quote Originally Posted by Infoseek tr. of Hiroyuki Nagashima
    I did not understand well about the subject for discussion here -- as -- I consider.
    As a result of using translation software, it was translated as follows.

    "How is Japanese which must treat a foreigner? "

    "1. -- them -- them -- Japanese -- it cannot understand -- You have to assume that gesture cannot be used.

    (2.) them -- Japanese (Japanese -- English) -- talk it does not ask [ whether すこと is made and or not ] them first -- if ら -- there is nothing "

    "3. -- people do not understand -- if it becomes -- them -- Japanese -- them -- lecture It must carry out, gesture is only used, or it talks more slowly. "

    About selection 1 Since I did not have the confidence which speaks English correctly, when he thinks in a foreigner's position, I am spoken to in English. たら困ります.

    Moreover, it is heard that some overseas gesture differs from gesture of Japan.

    For example, "I'm sorry" and JIE showing "thank you" SUCHA unites and worships both hands.

    moreover, "-- here -- coming -- " -- a palm -- the bottom -- carrying out -- a hand -- shaking -- seemingly, ます will become "go there" overseas -- it is ..

    When crossing a people front, the waist is bent and one hand is taken out before a face.

    It is heard that it is peculiar to Japan to take the form to worship.

    About selection 2 It has said, "It is not made a partner if Japanese cannot be spoken".

    Since like, it is too impolite to a partner.

    Since the meaning of translation was unknown, selection 3 was excepted. the time of being asked to a way in Tokyo -- English of babble, and the U.K. of an electronic notebook It corresponded in the word dictionary.

    Please point out, if the meaning of a subject for discussion is different.

    Since there is no confidence translated into English, it indicates in Japanese.
    Last edited by lexico; Feb 21, 2005 at 04:25.
    Z: The fish in the water are happy.
    H: How do you know ? You're not fish.
    Z: How do you know I don't ? You're not me.
    H: True I am not you, and I cannot know. Likewise, I know you're not, therefore I know you don't.
    Z: You asked me how I knew implying you knew I knew. In fact I saw some fish, strolling down by the Hao River, all jolly and gay.

    --Zhuangzi

  3. #3
    As the Rush Comes Duo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiroyuki Nagashima
    ここの議題について私は、よく理解していなかったよう に思います。
    翻訳ソフトを使った結果下記のように翻訳されました。
    「どのように、日本語は外国人を扱わなければならない か? 」
    「1.彼らは、彼らには日本語がわかることができなくて 、ジェスチャーを使うことができないと仮定しなければならない。」
    「2.彼らは、彼らが日本語(日本語では英語では)を話 すことができるかどうか、最初に彼らに尋ねなければな らない。」
    「3.人がわからないならば、彼らは日本語で彼らに講演 しなければならないか、ジェスチャーを使うだけで� るか、よりゆっくり話す。」

    選択1について。
    私は、英語を正しく話す自信が� りませんので
    自分が外国人の立場で考えたとき、英語で話しかけられ たら困ります。
    また、日本のジェスチャーと海外のジェスチャーはいくつか違うと聞いています。

    例えば、「ごめんなさい」や「� りがとう」を表すジェ スチャーは、両手を� わせて
    拝みます。
    また、「こっちに来て」は手のひらを下にして手を振り ますが、海外では「� っちに行け」となる
    らしい・・です。
    人の前を横切るとき、腰を屈めて片手を顔の前にだして 拝む形をとるのは日本独特だとも
    聞いています。

    選択2について。
    「日本語が話せなければ、相手にしない」といっている ようなものなので
    相手に対して� まりにも失礼です。

    選択3は
    翻訳の意味が不明だったので除外しました。

    東京で道を聞かれたときは、片言の英語と電子手� の英 語辞書で対応していました。


    もし、議題の意味が違っていましたらご指摘ください。
    英語に翻訳する自信が無いので、日本語で記載します。
    lexico suggested that i had misunderstood the purpose of this post, i however don't know what to make of it and why it is in japanese and not english, but I guess i'll eat my words and just say sorry if I misunderstood, and thanks to lexico for clearing things up to me, although i'm still confused.
    Last edited by Duo; Feb 21, 2005 at 04:25.

  4. #4
    Chukchi Salmon lexico's Avatar
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    For Duo: From the other posts, Mr. Horoyuki Nagashima is a Japanese software engineer who has been participating on the forum discussions offering help in any Japanese matters with what he knows as a Japanese. But feeling uncomfortable with his English, uses translation software to offer advice and information. You can see for yourself some of his posts here Horoyuki Nagashima.

    *a little history: There were several remarks about his vote in this thread which was a little surprising at first. I think he understood that situation and wanted to make sure he did not misunderstand the question. He posted how he perceived the question in Japanese which he believed the foreign speakers of Japanese could verify for him.*
    Last edited by lexico; Feb 21, 2005 at 13:25.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duo
    i however don't know what to make of it and why it is in japanese and not english...
    The answer is this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiroyuki Nagashima
    私は、英語を正しく話す自信が� りませんので...
    英語に翻訳する自信が無いので、日本語で記載します。
    The first sentence means "since I'm not confindent that I can speak English correctly..." and the second one is "I don't have the confidence to translate this into English, so I wrote in Japanese."

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