Fluent Foreigners Now Accepted In Japan!

[Maciamo]

btw isn't UN responsible for lowering international conflicts?

Here is the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination

The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) is the body of independent experts that monitors implementation of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination by its State parties.

Japan is a signatory of the treaties. Let me bring your attention on :
- International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination

- Universal Declaration on Cultural Diversity

- International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families

Here's Embassies of the World.

No no, I insist that we use JREF's own embassy listing, which by the way is the most complete on the web for Japanese embassies abroad and foreign embassies in Japan and has links to all official websites (if there is one).

[Shas]

if it was like you wrote japan would be full of foreigners and i think that's what preserves their culture so well (that they don't like to adapt to "outside")

sometimes you have to give up something in order to get something and im finde to be treated like a foreigner (since i cant talk any japanese at all) as long as japan is so very unique and not like every other country


well that's my point of view

[Shas]

Guess what happens to Japanese people when they go out in the world? Do you think they are treated better, beeing so small (no offense ment) and usually the accent is BIG. So are they treated better than we are over in Japan?

Hmmm.

[Damicci]

Can't wait til I can eaves drop on trains.

I would have to agree that I have not come across many older Japanese when I was there but the younger ones about my age and under pointed and stared and it wasn't a big deal to me. I had a lil boy get on the bus from the airplane to the terminal when we first arrived and the father asked the boy to sit next to oniisan (big brother) talkign about me and the kid kinda just kept walking maybe he didn't hear him maybe he didn't want to. but there has been times where i had people bump into me and instead ah eeee ah i sorry or some other jacked up english phrase they quickly responded with gomenne or mostly sumimasen and when I would respond with a daijoubu or a ii yo kinishinai they kinda gave this look like thumbs up you speak japanese. even with older women i would get this response mayb late 30's 40's So I am gonna say that Maciamo is probably right about the older generation being the problem with ignorance torwards foreigners in japan. The younger generation either don't care or are interested and want to try to speak with you (only in clubs this happened but none the less it happened).

At first that kinda cramped my style being in japan no one seemed friendly not smile or nod of acknowledgement. But later in the week I notice dmore people smiling and being nice. But mostly younger crowds. As foreigner in Japan I would say a nice smile will go a long way.

[mad pierrot]

as I am a human like everybody else and not some kind of retarded creature called "gaijijn".

I liked that sentence so much I wanted to post it again. I feel similar frustrations quite abit. As Maciamo noted, it's particularly disturbing when that treatment comes from people who know you well or have known you for a long time. Teachers I have worked with for near two years now are still shocked when I can do menial tasks or carry on conversations about certain subjects. Remember, criticizing this kind of behavior does not mean I hate Japan. That's all it is; criticism.

[Gentleman10]

OMG people .... just get over it, no one is trying to be amazingly discriminatory or racist towards foreigners, they're just trying to handle the situation they way they think is best.
I really doubt anyone has the time to think "Ok, what's the best way I can approach this person to piss him/her off". Honestly guys, I think we're dealing with a bit of o-v-e-r-s-e-n-s-i-t-i-v-i-t-y here. I mean, the people there are trying to do us, ***the guests of the country*** a convenience by doing this, so who are we to say "zomg ugh! Don't approach me like this you discriminatory native! You may only address me as なになにさま".... now if I were Japanese and heard that, I'd think someone would have alittle bit of sand up there *** =\, lol

[Goldiegirl]

I am not fluent in Japanese...actually I only know a few words. I am finding myself getting nervous on my upcoming trip because of my lack of Japanese. What I find just as interesting though, is that the people I am going to visit in Japan are just as worried about their lack of English skills. I think that they are maybe even more concerned as many a conversation has been about my comfort. How cool is that...it makes me feel special. If that is the treatment I can expect, I don't care what they call me.

[Thunderthief]

Japanese are incapable of understanding a gaijin doesn't always need to be talked to as if there five years old, they always have been and always will be.

[Mike Cash]

Japanese are incapable of understanding a gaijin doesn't always need to be talked to as if there five years old, they always have been and always will be.

And you say that based on what?

[Thunderthief]

Personal experience going there myself, duh.

Not that hard to figure out.

[Mike Cash]

Personal experience going there myself, duh.
Not that hard to figure out.

Actually, it was very hard to figure out.

I looked and saw that you are 19 years old and not in Japan, so the possibility was there that you were just regurgitating hearsay.

Also, your personal experience, which I am guessing was of a very limited nature both in scope and duration doesn't jibe with my own personal observations, so you can see there why I couldn't dash straight to the conclusion that you were speaking from personal experience.

Combine those with the obvious tone of strident hyperbole and surely you can see where someone might need to ask for clarification.

[Thunderthief]

I've been studying the language for the past year, and am taking college classes in the language and culture. I have went there although only for a few weeks (sort of a vacation thing I guess).

I should probably remove my age from display because it provokes arrogance and stereotypical assumptions that I don't know what im talking about.

[Mike Cash]

I've been studying the language for the past year, and am taking college classes in the language and culture. I have went there although only for a few weeks (sort of a vacation thing I guess).

I should probably remove my age from display because it provokes arrogance and stereotypical assumptions that I don't know what im talking about.

Nothing to do with stereotypes and everything to do with math, actually.

Knowing that you visited Japan for a few weeks while speaking practically zero Japanese helps us to know with how large a truckload of salt we are to take your initial comments. Thanks for clearing that up.

[J44xm]

I've been studying the language for the past year, and am taking college classes in the language and culture. I have went there although only for a few weeks (sort of a vacation thing I guess).

I should probably remove my age from display because it provokes arrogance and stereotypical assumptions that I don't know what im talking about.

Age has nothing to do with this. It's both the wildly exaggerated content of your message combined with the fact that you've only ever been in Japan for a few weeks--and on vacation, at that.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but understand that, to most of us, it's a pretty far-out opinion that contradicts what most of us have experienced here and has nothing to back it up but 'I've been studying Japanese and visited Japan briefly.' Like Mike Cash said, there's an element of truth there, but it's buried under several layers of hyperbole.

[Thunderthief]

Another poor assumption on your part, I can get around fairly well.

But please continue placing me into your dilusional mental stereotype, or "math" as you call it.

[Mike Cash]

Not a poor assumption at all. With under a year of Japanese study and in the context of playing tourist for a few weeks, there's no way you had enough exposure to Japanese people and life to issue a blanket statement like: "Japanese are incapable of understanding a gaijin doesn't always need to be talked to as if they're five years old, they always have been and always will be."

I can certainly understand the genesis of such an opinion, and there's a modicum of truth and accuracy to it. Not enough to save it from being hyperbole, unfortunately.

People here don't talk to me like I'm five years old. Not to say that they never have, but it has been a while.

[Glenn]

I can't recall having been talked to like I'm five years old yet. In fact, I have more of a problem with people speaking a dialect with a thick accent.

[Mikawa Ossan]

No offense Thunderthief, but being in Japan for a couple of weeks does not make you an expert on Japan or Japanese people. Even being in Japan for years on end doesn't make one on expert.

Studying Japanese for a year may put you on a level where you can get around fairly well, but there's a ton left to be learned.

I don't mean to diminish you at all, but please realize that in the eyes of some us JREFers, you are still a "beginner" for lack of a better term. That may be frustrating now, but everyone must start as a beginner before they can become a "pro". It's the same with everything.

I personally do sometimes find people who talk to me like a 5 year old. It's very rare, though. Certainly my experience can not be summed up by your earlier comments.

[DoctorP]

The only ones who have ever spoken to me as a 5 yr old, were in fact speaking English. (meaning they sounded like a 5yr old instead of treating me like one!) Once I respond in Japanese, they rattle off all sort of things to me as if I were fluent and I usually have to slow them down a bit.

[gaijinalways]

What has been interesting for me sometimes is people assuming I don't speak Japanese because I don't respond immediately. Once at a drycleaners, dropping of some femine things for my roommate, the clerk asked my name and address. I thought it was odd of the clerk to ask for those (based on my experience at other dry cleaners in Japan), but before I could reply, she started in broken English in an irritated voice, asking the same questions.

Some the assumptions made in Japan cut both ways, as some embarassed foreigners have found out ('assuming' they knew the neighboring Japanese spoke no English).

[Mike Cash]

What has been interesting for me sometimes is people assuming I don't speak Japanese because I don't respond immediately. Once at a drycleaners, dropping of some femine things for my roommate, the clerk asked my name and address. I thought it was odd of the clerk to ask for those (based on my experience at other dry cleaners in Japan), but before I could reply, she started in broken English in an irritated voice, asking the same questions.

I don't even have to leave my own home to get something similar to that. Often my wife of 20+ years will relate to me in Japanese some interesting bit of news she picked up from somewhere. If I betray shock or consternation at some aspect of the story she generally stops and then starts telling me the story in English. I have to tell her, "Hey, I understood what you were saying. I just couldn't believe what I was hearing."

[Gentleman10]

I don't even have to leave my own home to get something similar to that. Often my wife of 20+ years will relate to me in Japanese some interesting bit of news she picked up from somewhere. If I betray shock or consternation at some aspect of the story she generally stops and then starts telling me the story in English. I have to tell her, "Hey, I understood what you were saying. I just couldn't believe what I was hearing."

hmmm, I think this may be more of a pride issue than it is concerning language skills...

[Mike Cash]

hmmm, I think this may be more of a pride issue than it is concerning language skills...

Please elaborate. I can't understand exactly what you mean just by that short post.

[Elizabeth]

The only ones who have ever spoken to me as a 5 yr old, were in fact speaking English. (meaning they sounded like a 5yr old instead of treating me like one!)

I assumed he was talking about English, and perhaps the English of JR station workers which is the only group I've found has mastered the art of patronizing to a bullying level. Until I noticed a few clerks also flashing fee totals on a calculator to Japanese customers instead of speaking and realized how many aspects of the system treated you like a 5 year old. But I don't really want to get this discussion re-started....

[firefly]

Only once, did a drunken Japanese guy speak to me like a 5 year old using broken Japanese. I replied in fluent Japanese and asked him what was wrong with him, at which point, he said "JAPANESE GOOD!!! HAHAHA VERY GOOD."

I wanted to punch him in the face, but I politely smiled and returned to my conversation with my friend.