Okay. This is getting nowhere fast. Things are getting really sour on this topic when it probably should remain friendly and educational. It's apparent that there isn't going to be a compromise between jt9258 and kusojiji. So if possible, I'll try to take the direction away from a debate and just concentrate on the facts.

Here is an enlightening poll I encountered in regards to trends for relationships in Japan. I've picked out highlights of the poll, as it is too long to post the whole thing. This should help answer some questions for people fond or curious of Japanese females and males alike...

-----90% of single Japanese men and women in their twenties and thirties hope to marry someday, with motivations including love, the wish to create a home, and the desire to have children. The most important criteria by which these people judge prospective marriage partners are character, shared values, and compatibility. They see the ideal couple as equal partners who talk a lot and can discuss anything. However, one in three singles does not wish to have a wedding ceremony, while nearly 70% want only one or two children, and 15% do not want any children at all. With people tending to marry later nowadays and a growing number of people choosing not to marry at all, the number of children is on the decrease.

In another multiple-response question, the survey subjects were asked how they would like to meet their future spouse. The most commonly chosen answer was "in a natural fashion, at school or at work" (87%), followed by "through an introduction by a mutual friend" (50%), "at a meeting arranged by a matchmaker" (20%), and "on a group date" (18%).

The survey asked respondents to list the top five attributes they seek in a marriage partner. The five most frequently listed criteria were "character" (cited by 69% of respondents), "shared values" (55%), "compatibility" (46%), "kindness and consideration," (45%), and "my affection for him/her" (40%). Other qualities included "income and wealth" (cited by 35% of respondents), "his/her affection for me" and "honesty/faithfulness" (both cited by 34%), and "attractiveness to the opposite sex" and "appearance" (18% each). Women appear to have become less concerned than they once were about a man's height, education, and income - the "big three" benchmarks against which women have traditionally judged prospective husbands. Only 2% of respondents to this survey cited academic background as a key criterion in selecting a marriage partner

Meanwhile, responses more prevalent among people living outside Tokyo were "when I feel looked down upon by society for being single," "when I feel ready to separate from my parents," and "when my parents and the people around me start to pester me about getting married." The findings reveal that while the Tokyoites' attitudes toward marriage are strongly tinged with individualism, those of people living elsewhere are more imbued with concern about relationships with parents and the surrounding community.

Among both sets of respondents, "character" topped the list of desired attributes for a marriage partner. However, that attribute scored higher among people living outside of Tokyo. "Income and wealth" was also more prevalent among non-Tokyo residents. Meanwhile, both "my affection for him/her" and "his/her affection for me" were chosen more often by respondents living in the capital than by their provincial counterparts.

As for the attributes of the ideal couple, respondents in the metropolitan area said that number one was being "equal partners" and number two was being able to "talk a lot and discuss anything." Province dwellers cited the same top two, but in reverse order

Views of the ideal couple differed as well. Most important to men were, first, that the couple be equal partners; second, that they talk a lot and be able to discuss anything; and third, that the man share in the housework. Women put conversation first and equal partnership second. And the number-three response among women was "the couple go on dates from time to time even after the children are born."-----

So it leads right back to the same thing we had been discussing earlier. The more rural you get from Tokyo, the more old-fashion the person is going to be. The women are more concerned with love and affection than they are with being equal partners. The women also do hope that the relationship stays intimate long into the marriage, even if things don't end up that way. Matchmaking services (which I don't personally feel is anywhere the same as an arranged marriage) is a popular service, but is not a preferred one by women. It would seem that peer pressure forces women to use whatever option they can to hopefully find a man to be with. It must be difficult for some women in Japan (and men) to find a mate when they live in a society that has strong expectations of their relationship. Afterall, how can a man and woman be free to marry whomever they want if their parents are old-fashion and have certain expectations of them?

Things played out just as the majority of the people posting on this thread had guessed it would. With the couple wanting a loving relationship, the women desiring affection, the men wanting someone they can talk to, and yet still a significant fraction of people follow very traditional values. Sounds just like (for those of you familiar with the United States) comparing California to Georgia.

I guess the safer thing to do is just to assume that anything discussed that isn't cited nor a personal experience, is instead an opinion about one personality type of person. jt9258's wife might very well be the cookie-cutter traditional Japanese woman that gets portrayed in Madame Butterfly stories. He should know better than us, he is married to her. When it comes to learning about the opinions and attitudes of women like that, then his advice can prove to be very valuable.

Though lets do our best not to assume that all women in Japan are like that. From the demographics I listed in this post, it would seem that most aren't like that at all. Once again, take note that there are always exceptions to these numbers. For all we know, most of these same people did end up marrying into arranged marriages or live out similar lives to that of jt9258 and his wife. Yet that could be because it was expected of them. The point being, that what people feel and what people do are separate things. There are likely men and women who think they want to have a traditional Japanese lifestyle, then end up meeting someone they fall emotionally hard for, and completely change their minds about tradition by marrying into a relationship based on loving emotions.