Discrimination in Japan

[Golgo_13]

As a person who loves just about anything japanese, it saddens me to hear that a lot of people there treat other asians(south east asians in particular) badly. I would like to visit Japan someday and make some friends but I'm now thinking twice about it. I hope I am wrong about my impression about Japan and make some japanese friends in the future

Are you the type of person who is saddened by rumors? Most other east-Asian nations have had a bad history with Japan, and people are still prejudiced against the Japanese.

You've never even been to Japan and you're already pre-judging.

Ask yourself this question--if the Japanese treat other Asians so poorly, why are there so many of them there? So many continue to go there, legally or illegally?

If I knew I wasn't going to be welcome somewhere, I sure as hell wouldn't go there.

One thing no one is willing to mention is the crimes being committed by Chinese and other foreignors in Japan. Are we in serious denial? Some merchants would rather refuse service than to risk and problems.

It creates a very very poor impression upon the Japanese when foreigners commit crime and makes headline news. Their feeling is, if you are a guest in someone's house, you behave yourself. What if the Japanese went to China and committed crimes? Do you think the Chinese would still treat them well?

[Rioneru]

As stated many times before, racism, prejudice, and discrimination are everywhere. I've never been to Japan, but I've heard more bad talk on foreign treatment than good. I've heard enough to dissuade any non-Japanese person to even want to visit. However, I've heard very good stories too and it is with a clear conscience I will first visit Japan to assess for myself.

As an American, I see many foreigners come here on their own accord, often in search of a better life. Now whether the move was instigated by those glorifying America or damning it; point is, travelers and immigrants alike find out for themselves.

If you base yourself solely on fears erected by others, where goes personal experience?

[bakaKanadajin]

As stated many times before, racism, prejudice, and discrimination are everywhere. I've never been to Japan, but I've heard more bad talk on foreign treatment than good. I've heard enough to dissuade any non-Japanese person to even want to visit. However, I've heard very good stories too and it is with a clear conscience I will first visit Japan to assess for myself.

As an American, I see many foreigners come here on their own accord, often in search of a better life. Now whether the move was instigated by those glorifying America or damning it; point is, travelers and immigrants alike find out for themselves.

If you base yourself solely on fears erected by others, where goes personal experience?

That's a really good point. I haven't spent as much time as others in Japan but I would consider the sum of my experiences quite typical and at least more informed (based solely on length of stay) than the average vacationer. That being said I'd be one of those people likely to offer positive experiences, as they are what remain in my mind. I guess others have had a rougher ride than me. Why this is I do not know. But I will say, to your point on personal experience and fear, that if you (meaning anyone) approaches Japan with this mindset or chooses to adopt it quickly after one negative experience, they will begin to see discrimination where it doesn't exist.

[Golgo_13]

no Chinese allowed

How do we know that sign is real?

How do we know it wasn't concocted by some Japan basher, photographed and placed on the net by Jim83's friends?

If any real business put up a sign like that, it would be reported in the papers and on the news, causing the proprietor much embarrassment or even legal problems. Once again, a single, isolated incident.

Many businesses in the U.S. have signs that read "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone".

"Anyone" could include literally anyone--including Chinese.

[Buddha Smoker]

japanese people tell me that its the chinese that steal bikes, then ship them back to china.

the reason why I used to "grab a bike" everyday was because A: there was a large pile of unused, unlocked, unloved bikes near the station & B: I bought a bike, but it was stolen.

Yeah, I've heard the same thing and your logic makes perfect sense

[Tamsin]

Wow, I have heard about racial discrimination in Japan, but to see it posted on the shop door. I have never been to Japan, but sure would like to go, but would like to know that if I choose to ride a bike, I won't get stopped.

[Spaceghost]

What is that sign for? Is it a door to a shop or restaurant?

[Dream Time]

What is that sign for? Is it a door to a shop or restaurant?

yes


a door to a shop/restaurant

[Golgo_13]

Also people with tattoos

[Mandylion]

Also people with tattoos

Thats what that is! Ah ha!

[Golgo_13]

Japan is a country where few people believe strongly in religious, political or philosophical ideas. In other words, morals and ideals are not a major concern. . . .

(emphasis aded)

I don't see the connection.

People who are not religious (especially not Christian) can certainly have morals. Otherwise, Japan could never be one of the safest nations on the planet.

In elementary school in the U.S. I never had classes in Ethics and Morals like I did in Japan ("Doutoku".)

It is unreasonable or even irrational to expect Japan to have no discrimination when most western countries have the same problem. Since when did the U.S. stop having discrimination based on race, gender, religion, sexual preference, age, weight, attractiveness, income level, etc.

Since when did Western European nations that have ethnic or racial minorities stop having any problems?

Or is it a more serious offense if the Japanese do the same thing?

[Maciamo]

I don't see the connection.

People who are not religious (especially not Christian) can certainly have morals. Otherwise, Japan could never be one of the safest nations on the planet.

In elementary school in the U.S. I never had classes in Ethics and Morals like I did in Japan ("Doutoku".)

Golgo, maybe you should read the whole sentence before comenting it.. The answer lies just after the comma : "Japan is a country where few people believe strongly in religious, political or philosophical ideas. In other words, morals and ideals are not a major concern, because people rely a lot on common sense and values inculcated by the educational system or the society"

This was a praise, not a criticism. "Religion and morals" are not sufficient to make a society safe, because most of main religions developped such a long time ago that their values and morals do not fit the present world. Another problem with "morals" is that people usually think it is universal, which is one the worst aberration of the human mind, what creates misunderstandings and wars.

I believe that moral rules cannot work in any situation, and therefore people should always use their common sense and reason to know what behaviour they should adopt, case by case.

Japanese rely on common sense, but are unfortunately too influenced by stereotypes and tend to always simplify things. They should be taught analytical criticism, so as to understand more easily what kind of information can be trusted and which is exxagerated or false (eg. when reading newspapers, or hearing some stories about foreign countries). I learnt that at school with emphasis on it in almost every subject (language, history, science...).

But discussing how should ethics be taught is probaly more suitable to another thread.

[Golgo_13]

Golgo, maybe you should read the whole sentence before comenting it.. The answer lies just after the comma : "Japan is a country where few people believe strongly in religious, political or philosophical ideas. In other words, morals and ideals are not a major concern, because people rely a lot on common sense and values inculcated by the educational system or the society"

I didn't have to. "[M]orals and ideals are not a major concern [to them]" was all I needed to see. I inferred that to mean that the Japanese are immoral. IMO, morals are important in any society, and Japanese certainly have them. Perhaps your idea of what a moral is is different from mine.

"The Japanese do things that may be considered immoral by other cultures"

As long as they're done inside Japan I would think what they consider moral or immoral is more important, not other cultures.

[Maciamo]

I didn't have to. "[M]orals and ideals are not a major concern [to them]" was all I needed to see. I inferred that to mean that the Japanese are immoral. IMO, morals are important in any society, and Japanese certainly have them. Perhaps your idea of what a moral is is different from mine.

Completely different, apparently... It has always been clear to me that morals is something that is acquired and rigid. People need to be taught morals and follow those very strict rules, even when it doesn't make sense. For example, if Christian morals says "you must not lie", then you just cannot lie without commiting a sin, even when it would be better for everybody if you did. The problem of morals is that it is rigid and opposes common sense and reason. As a philosopher, I believe that people fall in the world fall in 3 categories :

1) Those who use (religious) "morals" they were taught and don't have to think about why it is this way, just follow it. This is usually related to strong religiousness.
2) Those who follow their common sense, which is somewhat acquired by the culture and society you live in.
3) Those who use their logic and reason in a case by case manner, so that they always choose the best solution adapted to the situation.

Japanese mostly fall in the 2nd category. Americans from the Bible belt (South East) and Muslims around the world typically fall into the first category. I am part of the 3rd category, which is also unfortunately the rarest (as people don't like to use their brains). Lot's of people use a combination of the 3.

[Spaceghost]

I've always wondered about all these signs etc, like the one above, or often in baths that don't allow yakuza in, I was always under the assumption that yakuza are feared, and they would rough the people up if they did not "respect" them.

I think I will read a chapter of Musashi and then goto sleep

[dadako]

I have no idea where these ideas come from and how they are purpetuated, from many many sources on both sides I imagine.

My girlfriend is chinese, she and her chinese friends call japanese people "the f**king jap" however we study japanese together all the time and she plans to back to Tokyo with me next year to do modelling. It's all just a joke, not a nice one but meaningless all the same. Some Japanese people are really odd, especially in the UK, where the the oddballs seem to be shipped over by the dozen.

Japan is what you make of it, MichaelJames please don't be scared off! The fact remains that Japanese have a large amount of energy to promote peace and well being, regardless of past desputes between asia, its something that shouldn't affect our generation! I'm sure there are young racists, everywhere, thanks to thier ignorant pairents and the ignorance of thier of brains.

[Maciamo]

And just how are the average Japanese supposed to distinguish them?

As mdchachi very pertinently said, the problem is that the authorities and media are misleading the public in a xenophobic way.

There isn't a nation on this planet that doesn't have a little bit of xenophobia

That is right, but it is the role of the government to educate the people and discourage xenophobia. Japan is one of the few Western countries to encourage it, and that is where the problem lies.

That is why I would like the media and government to compare stats and tell people exactly the proportion of crimes commited by Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Indonesians, Brazilians, Americans, etc. They could also mention the crime rate per country (eg. 2% of Americans residing in Japan have committed crimes at one time or another), and see where Japanese stand. I am pretty sure that lots of small European countries have a crime rate close to 0%.

[dadako]

I am pretty sure that lots of small European countries have a crime rate close to 0%.

yeh right

I know you're stats mad Maciamo, however isn't it wiser to make your judgements based on experience not information alone?

89% of statistics are made up.

[nekosasori]

BuSmo wrote:

80% of crime caused in Japan is caused by foreigners not a part of Japan (not permanent residents or the legal ones...you know the foreigners foreigners... ) and 50% of that number (or 40% out of 100%) was by US military people.

Wouldn't that be 80% of reported crime? I'm sure a lot of illegal activity occurs in every country where the rich and powerful can suppress it, or in cases like domestic abuse or acquaintance rape where incidents are never brought to the attention of authorities.

Since this is about racism in Japan, I won't go into what I've seen/heard/read/experienced in Ireland, but methinks that insular and homogenous cultures with a bent to conform have many traits in common. But then, I recall even in "the most multi-cultural city in the world" - according to the UN, that is - my parents and I had encountered some explicit discrimination and bigotry.

Maciamo wrote:

I am pretty sure that lots of small European countries have a crime rate close to 0%.

Let me assure you that Ireland, a population of less than 4 million people, has an extremely high crime rate per capita across all categories. I'll research figures if people ask for stats, although the Irish media aren't archived very extensively online (all the negative news seems confined to radio and TV).

[Buddha Smoker]

BuSmo wrote:

Wouldn't that be 80% of reported crime? I'm sure a lot of illegal activity occurs in every country where the rich and powerful can suppress it, or in cases like domestic abuse or acquaintance rape where incidents are never brought to the attention of authorities..

Yes, unreported crime doesn't count

[Maciamo]

Let me assure you that Ireland, a population of less than 4 million people, has an extremely high crime rate per capita across all categories. I'll research figures if people ask for stats, although the Irish media aren't archived very extensively online (all the negative news seems confined to radio and TV).

I hope that you and Dadako didn't misunderstand me. I meant the the crime rate of people coming from small European countries (Benelux, Scandinavia...) living in Japan is close to 0%. That seems obvious as I have never heard of any crime committed by any of them and there are usually less than 1000 people of each of those countries living in Japan.

[nekosasori]

@ Maciamo - ahh, I apologize - that was not apparent to me. I'm not sure what a realistic count would be of Irish nationals living in Japan (long-term, over a year?) - although I believe you. As an aside, I imagine a lot of Australians in Japan would have Irish ties.

Actually, I did do some research about Irish crime rates (within Ireland, that is) and they claim that compared to Denmark or New Zealand that Eire has a lower crime rate. I don't believe this, however.

[Jean-Francois]

[a certain nationalist arrogance Japan was feeling at the time due to their economic dominance

If this theory is true, then foreigners in Japan better be well-prepared�

The Japanese economy is heading to a strong recovery. Growth (the increase of consumer confidence and purchasing power of the Japanese people) is coming from inside while threats (fear of terrorist attack in the US market and tightening of monetary policy in mainland China) are coming from outside. However, threats 危 also create opportunities 機 . For the same reasons, a lot of money from the Hong Kong and US stock exchanges has flowed into Japanese mutual funds.

no Chineses allowed

Yeah, that was a hot topic of various radio talk shows in Hong Kong last summer. And most of the Chinese newspaper headlines read some like this:

Shame on Chinese people -

Slaughtered host family in Japan!

or

Shame on Chinese people -

Committed more than 50% of crimes in Japan!

And yes ... the HK media says more than 50%.

[Jean-Francois]

Originally Posted by Dreamer
no Chineses allowed

I am very sorry ... it should be Dream Time. I know you two are different. Dreamer from Paris has short hair and glasses and Dream Time from Vancouver has long hair and a high forehead.

I was just eating my dinner, reading and typing at the same time ... Oh, man! Now I have to apologise for being off-topic

[Duo]

Can I ask if a foreigner was to be married with a Japanese citizen, or if after he/she had lived a long time legally in Japan, could he/she ask and receive Japanese citizenship ?