Why don't the Japanese differentiate more between foreigners ?

[Maciamo]

Amazing. In his denial he manages to shove his foot even farther into his mouth.

?? What are you talking about ? Is that beyond you comprehesion abilities ?

Basically you are saying that to avoid being racist people should :

- "treat individual as individual" => limitations : cannot discuss cultural, national or ethnic differences between big groups of people

The other extreme (the most racist imaginable) is to have a extremely simple dual world views, in which there are people of the same race, nationality and language, and "the rest". This view is adopted by a majority of the Japanese.

Consequently, if one wants to avoid gross generalisation and racist prejudices, yet cannot differentiate everyone on an individual basis for practical reasons, the solution is to refer to people according to more specific groups.

My example of the 3 critera (nationality, language, social class) was just an example of "standard" way of categorising people. Now we could also use religion, interests, political affiliations, or whatever. to classify people, depending on what contrast we want to emphasise.

Some people are too simple-minded to realise that clear differences exist between such groups. It makes me angry to hear Japanese people assume that all Europeans are the same, or that a Asian, European, Africa or American share more in common in their "foreigness" than an East Asian shares with a Japanese. Part of the problem lies in the fact that most Japanese do not want to be associated or compare themselves to other East Asians. So they close themselves into this dual view of the world where there is only "uchi" (inside) and "soto" (outside), which is primitive and inclined to Japan-superiority-based racism.

It is usually common knowledge for Westerners that people differ according to their culture (nationality + language) or social class. But not to many Japanese.

Is there anything in my explanation on which you, Mike or Silverpoint, disagree ?

[Mikawa Ossan]

It makes me angry to hear Japanese people assume that all Europeans are the same, or that a Asian, European, Africa or American share more in common in their "foreigness" than an East Asian shares with a Japanese.

This here is a good point.
Obviously this whole issue means a lot to you, Maciamo. I ask you, though, do you really think that most people should or even could think in terms of foriegners in that way? Here is one example of what I mean (perhaps not a very good one). It seems to me that if you're the average white American (USA citizen) (maybe just in the Midwest they think this?), then there's only one kind of Mexican living in the USA--the poor illegal kind. Of course that stereotype is not true, but that seems to be the stereotype. (Americans out there, do you agree? Or am I full of it?) It seems to me to be the same problem albeit on a somewhat different scale. How about your native country? How do they in the aggregate (honestly) think about different foreigners and larger ethnic groups?

[Maciamo]

It seems to me that if you're the average white American (USA citizen) (maybe just in the Midwest they think this?), then there's only one kind of Mexican living in the USA--the poor illegal kind. Of course that stereotype is not true, but that seems to be the stereotype.

You are rasing the issue of stereotypes in general. What I was discussing was not even that the Japanese had stereotypes about each major country (and they do), but that for many things they just assimilate all foreigners as one uniform entiry (and not just those living in Japan). To take your example in the US, it would be like a Midwest American thinking that all Americans are white, Christian and speak English, and that if they ever come across an Asian or a Hispanic in their area (say, Kansas or Nebraska), they would assume that they are foreigners. More than that, they would assume that there is hardly any difference between a Chinese, a Japanese, an Thai, a Mexican and a Peruvian, as they are all foreigners. They probably all think the same way and speak a similar language called the "foreignian". That is closer to how the average Japanese think.

It seems to me to be the same problem albeit on a somewhat different scale. How about your native country? How do they in the aggregate (honestly) think about different foreigners and larger ethnic groups?

Being from a small country (about the size of Maine or Shikoku), which is pretty international and has 3 official languages (thus 3 different cultures), few Belgians assume that people from 2 different countries could be alike. They understand all too well that the cultural differences between citizens of a same country can be huge just based on their mother-tongue. What's more, if you drive one hour in any direction (but the coast) from almost any point in Belgium, you are in another country (the Netherlands, Germany, Luxembourg or France - and Britain if you take the ferry or Eurotunnel). Consequently there are probably no Belgian (except small children) that have never been abroad (I personally don't know many people who haven't been to at least 10 countries, except among the elderly for whom it is at least 5). In these circumstances, few people would have seriously distorted views of of "foreigners" as a whole. I also don't know anybody who would assimilate Chinese and Japanese people (apparently that is common in English-speaking countries), because everyone is conscious that it would be like assimilating the French and the Germans, or the French and the Brits, and who in a sane mind would do such a thing ?

Yet, I found that there is ignorance in Belgium. For example, few Belgians know that there are over 800 languages spoken in India, or that Balinese religion is a mixture of animism and Hinduism. That's why I started a thread about improving education in Belgium or EU countries. It's not enough that people just name any country and their capital, or know the great lines of world history; they need to know more details about society in every (major) country in today's world, and learn to update their knowledge by themselves constantly. Unfortunately many Belgians seem to be self-satisfied about their knowledge of the world too easily - contrarily to me.

[Mikawa Ossan]

You are rasing the issue of stereotypes in general.

You're right. I think it's all the same.

Yet, I found that there is ignorance in Belgium. For example, few Belgians know that there are over 800 languages spoken in India, or that Balinese religion is a mixture of animism and Hinduism. That's why I started a thread about improving education in Belgium or EU countries. It's not enough that people just name any country and their capital, or know the great lines of world history; they need to know more details about society in every (major) country in today's world, and learn to update their knowledge by themselves constantly. Unfortunately many Belgians seem to be self-satisfied about their knowledge of the world too easily - contrarily to me.

Obviously, you have much more international experience than many. You care about other countries, and people in other countries. Am I right in this?
But not everyone is the same.
[DISCLAIMER]I do not pretend to speak for everyone.[END DISCLAIMER]
In my experience from a country with an isolationist vein living in another, most people think of foreign countries as a novelty, but not anything that really affects their lives personally, except in negative ways. (For example rising gas prices, the death toll in Iraq, terrorists.) Therefore, they really don't care about other countries and peoples, and foreigners in general, except in negative ways. One does not need to look far for discrimination against immigrants in American history. But the point is, due to lack of interest, there is a lack of knowledge. To combat the lack of knowledge, you need to combat the lack of interest. Being negative will not accomplish this goal. Debito-san may help in changing things, but if we non-native-Japanese living-on-Japanese-soil all acted in the same way, I truly think that things would get worse in this country. This would be in spite of the asthetic improvements. If you think that Japanese (and other people, of course) should know more about others, I think you put the burden to do the same first. In your case, since you do know about Japan, I think you should at least put that knowledge to use. In Japanese society among Japanese themselves, what kinds of actions tend to get good responses? So long as said actions are not immoral, these are what we should emulate if we want to live in peace here. We are not the ones with power, nor should we be. We are non-citizens. I think naturalized citizens are in a different category, as they are afforded every right and privilege afforded to every other citizen by law.
Sorry if I started to ramble!