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  1. #1
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    No Green Party at the Japanese Parliament means a lot

    Observers of Japanese politics will have noticed the absence of Green Party in Japanese politics. In fact, the Green Party does exist, but nobody seems to care about it, since it does not have a single seat. In comparison, the "Greens" hold up to 15% of the seats in countries like Germany.

    This says a lot about Japanese politicians and Japanese mindset. When I brought up the issue with some Japanese acquaintances, they wondered why there should be a Green Party at all. I explained that the "Greens" did not just care about protecting endangered species, fighting whale-hunting (so dear to Japan), or bothering people about not cutting a nice tree. That is not at all what the Green Party is for. What they want is protecting people's health by passing laws about recycling wastes, reducing industrial pollution, prohibiting the (ab)use of dioxine emitting incinerators, controlling better the quality of food (including stricter test for BSE, etc.), promoting organic food, using cleaner energy (no nuclear or coal power plants...), and so on.

    Japan is one of the few countries in the world to burn most of its rubbish. Just in Tokyo, there are dozens of incinerators in the middle of residential districts, as if they didn't know the dioxine and other toxic emissions caused cancer or other disease to local population. Actually there has been many cases of disease caused by incinerators in Japan, but the government continues to build new ones, against protests by local residents (like the infamous new incinerator in Kyoto).

    The lack of concern regarding health is abherrant in Japanese society. It would be difficult to survey the population about their opinion, asmost people would say they do care about health (and some about environment), but this is mostly a tatemae stance. (tatemae refers to the Japanese custom of saying what is "politically correct" in public, instead of what they really think).

    Signs showing that the opposite is true are everywhere. First of all, organic food is almost unheard of in Japan. That is in sharp contrast to Europe, where about all supermarkets have an "organic food" corner. Secondly, vegetarianism is not only inexistent among Japanese, but is seen as absurd
    by most of them. Again, the rising rate of vegetarians in western countries is a direct consequence of their concern about meat-related disease (dioxin chicken, crazy cows...). Lower consumption of red meat by lots of Westerners are due to the medical studies showing that red meat isn't very healthy, statement which would make a Japanese laugh in disbelief (or poor medical awareness).

    But health issues are not just food or waste-related in Japan. Doctors and hospital have acquired such a bad reputation for medical negligence or outright incompetence that the number of Japanese seking treatment abroad (US, Australia, Europe...) is on the increase. Several books and even TV drama (like "shiroi kyoutou") tackle the issue of poor medical performances in Japan. Scandals involving doctor incompetence resulting in the patients' death make the news on a weekly basis. One of the worst cases was when medical supply companies (including the Japanese Green Cross) contaminated thousands of patients with untreated blood infected by HIV in 1996. One third of all Japanese with AIDS have it due to such medical malpractice.

    That brings us to the issue of AIDS in Japan. Though the rate are low by international and even western standards, it would seem that the number of HIV-infected Japanese is much higher than the official data claim. Japanese just do not want to be tested, and few people admit using condoms. Their reaction towards AIDS tests reflect again the Japanese attitude toward health: as long as it is not clearly apparent and nobody else seem to care too much, why should we be concerned ? The same is true of the BSE or mad cow disease.

    Since BSE was found in Japan 3 years ago, I haven't met a single Japanese who refrained from eating beef (as I do), and most credulously believe that their governement or that of other countries are doing a good job in fighting it - when just a fraction of the bovine population is tested, tests are unreliable and bad results often dissimulated. Once again, they prefer to play the policy of the ostrich and not facing serious problems, rather than be responsible. That is as much true of politicians as of ordinary people.
    Last edited by Maciamo; Dec 23, 2004 at 22:36.

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  2. #2
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    Why would Japan need a Green Party? I think that most japanese do not have the leftist/soft sensitivities about preserving nature for nature's sake ( in fact I think that most asian don't have them ). Actually I tend to agree with this stance. What is important is people, and not some tree or a plant, and I find the japanese view very liberating.

  3. #3
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel
    Why would Japan need a Green Party? I think that most japanese do not have the leftist/soft sensitivities about preserving nature for nature's sake ( in fact I think that most asian don't have them ). Actually I tend to agree with this stance. What is important is people, and not some tree or a plant, and I find the japanese view very liberating.
    As I said in my article, the real purpose of a Green Party is not to protect a tree or just nature for its own sake. Its purpose is to protect humans from their own abuse on nature, such as pollution.

    Japan has a history of very bad cases where hundreds of people have been poisoned by chemical wastes and suffer terrible side-effects for decades. There has been many more cases of cancers caused by incinerators, of people radiated because of poor security measures in nuclear plant (in Tochigi, near Tokyo, 4 years ago, for example).

    Another purpose is to check better food for possible toxins (dioxin...) or virus (BSE, avian flu, SARS...), as the ruling LDP in Japan is more like the Bush administration in that they don't really care about people's health as long as the economy works.

    If you can't understand such basic issues, then you still have a long way to mature.

    The point of my article is not that Japan should have a green party, because as long as other parties care about public health we don't need them. The point is the attitude of the average Japanese voter toward health and environmental issues. They just don't care, which is why there couldn't possibly be an active green party if they are not worried about themselves in the first place.

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    Techincally, Japan DOES have a green party - known as Midori no kaigi - basically Enviormental Green Political Assembely. It is ecologist-leftist, as a green party should be. But as Maciamo-san pointed out, the MNK does have no power. In this recent Sangiin election, they had a goal of 1 seat, but did not even get that.

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    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiroshi66
    Techincally, Japan DOES have a green party - known as Midori no kaigi - basically Enviormental Green Political Assembely.
    As I said in my second sentence, there is a green party, but it has no seats at the parliament. My title said the same : "No green party at the Parliament means a lot".

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    Regular Member bossel's Avatar
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    Liberating? Only as long as you have some place to live. If you take the liberty to destroy nature, your liberty will be gone completely, sooner or later.

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    Hai, gomen, I misunderstood you. Please forgive me.

    Well, for one thing, most Asians just aren't into leftism, as pointed out. Midori No Kaigi is, actually, my mistake, one of the few conservative, right-wing, ecologist parties. It grew out of Shin-to Sakigake, a reformist breakway of the LDP. But indeed, most Japanese just don't care about ecologism. They put their faith on the LDP and the DPJ.

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    AmericaFlorida TuskCracker's Avatar
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    Why would Japan need a Green Party? I think that most japanese do not have the leftist/soft sensitivities about preserving nature for nature's sake ( in fact I think that most asian don't have them ).
    I think this is true. I lived in Malaysia/Thailand for 2 years
    _.

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    Don't the Social Democrat and Communist parties call themselves "ecologically-concious" political parties?

  10. #10
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiroshi66
    Don't the Social Democrat and Communist parties call themselves "ecologically-concious" political parties?
    First I don't know why you assimilate so different parties as Social Democrat and Communist. But the industry-crazy Communists are certainly among the least ecologically-concious party in world history. Just look at Russia and China during the Communist period. Even a special "party for the destruction of the envrironment" could not have done a better job.

    As for the Socialists, in Europe they tend to be ecologically-concious, but so are other parties.

  11. #11
    Regular Member fugue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    First I don't know why you assimilate so different parties as Social Democrat and Communist. But the industry-crazy Communists are certainly among the least ecologically-concious party in world history. Just look at Russia and China during the Communist period. Even a special "party for the destruction of the envrironment" could not have done a better job. As for the Socialists, in Europe they tend to be ecologically-concious, but so are other parties.
    Please don't tell me that you have zero understanding of those prominent leftist parties in Japan and yet were so quick to judge negatively the performance of the entire nation in this issue.

  12. #12
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fugue
    Please don't tell me that you have zero understanding of those prominent leftist parties in Japan and yet were so quick to judge negatively the performance of the entire nation in this issue.
    What are you referring to ? I was talking about the difference between socialism and communism in general (in the world).

  13. #13
    Regular Member fugue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    What are you referring to ? I was talking about the difference between socialism and communism in general (in the world).
    Why are you all of a sudden talking about socialism and communism in general anyway? Does this have anything to do with the underachievement of those leftist parties in Japan regarding environmental issues if at all?

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    Perhaps I didn't word myself correctly.

    I did not "assimilate so different parties as Social Democrat and Communist", I was reffering to the Japanese Social Democrat and Communist parties. Perhaps at this board I need to refer to them with their Japanese names - the Shakai Minshu-to and the Nihon- (i forgot the word for Communist..). Don't they stand up for ecology to an extent?

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    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Here is interesting article from the Neue Zürcher Zeitung which summarize well the ecological problem I am talking about.

    Nuclear issue

    According to investigative reports, the Japanese nuclear power industry's worst accident to date, which occurred on 30 September last year at the Tokaimura nuclear facility not far from Tokyo, was triggered by a chain of events unimaginable in its primitivity. Highly dangerous substances were mixed together by hand by workers taking no safety precautions, resulting in an uncontrolled chain reaction. According to an agency dispatch from Washington early this year, the United States plans to go to court to force a privately run waste processing plant near its Atsugi naval base near Tokyo to cease operations. The facility is releasing highly toxic dioxin into the environment, and repeated American protests to the Japanese authorities have thus far proved useless. Not long ago, only after weeks of controversy, Japan repatriated containers with highly dangerous waste from the Philippines; the transfer had clearly violated the Basel Convention on the Control of Cross-Border Shipments of Hazardous Waste, of which Japan is a signatory. These three incidents convey a picture which is difficult to reconcile with Japan's usual image as a modern, efficient society.
    The bright side

    Arriving in Tokyo from other major Asian cities, one is immediately struck by the general cleanliness. The Japanese capital may not be able to compete with Singapore in that regard, but it certainly can with Hong Kong, where there is still plenty of Third World poverty in evidence, where water pollution makes you avoid eating shellfish and monstrous air pollution makes breathing difficult. The people of Tokyo like to point out that their air quality has improved greatly, even though it is still far from the targeted level of purity.
    I completely agree with that. Tokyo has progressed a lot regarding air pollution, and the air is now almost as pure as in a little country town. I used to get headaches from the pollution in London, but nothing like that in Tokyo, even bycicling between cars. I also agree about the traces of 3rd world poverty, esp. the near slums (corrugated iron or old crumbling wooden houses) in some shitamachi areas. However, that is not related to the ecology.

    Minamata stands as an ominous memorial to environmental irresponsibility and official secrecy and incompetence. Mercury released into the sea was first noted in 1956 as a cause of illness in Minamata, yet it took all of 11 years before the government acknowledged it. In the interim, those affected were subjected to criminal administrative pressures. The Minamata catastrophe lent considerable impetus to civic movements for environmental and consumer concerns. Japan scholar Karel van Wolveren terms that country's movement against industrial poisoning of the environment the most successful of Japan's civic groups operating outside the framework of traditional political parties and professional associations.
    Good to hear there has been some measures taken by indivduals. But why do people have to fight against the government and companies, while the government (in Europe more than the US, as the US is far from being an reference in terms of ecology) is supposed to protect people from unscupulous profit-motivated companies.

    Japan lagging behind

    On the whole, however, the development of ecological awareness and environmental protection in Japan is a very slow process. At the legislative level, there have been three milestones so far: In 1967, basic rules for regulating environmental pollution were formulated, with responsibility assigned to various levels of government and quality standards established; in 1993 these regulations were fine-tuned and their areas of application extended; and finally, two years ago criteria were laid down for evaluating the environmental impact of large-scale projects.

    But there are still substantial gaps in the system. Among the most prominent problems is pollution by chemical substances, especially dioxin and asbestos. Strict regulations on effluents have helped improve water quality in recent years, but experts warn against ongoing pollution by organic substances and the increasing temperatures of open bodies of water due to high-temperature effluents from nuclear power plants. This latter factor is even threatening to seriously harm coastal fisheries.
    Again, there has been progress, but like for social issues (sexual harassment, women liberation, paid holidays, tolerance toward gays, people with AIDS, etc.), Japan seem to be 10 to 30 years late (depending on the issue) on many other developed countries.

    No green party!

    That's a coincidence that I should stumble on this :

    A look at the two chambers of the Japanese parliament shows that, in contrast to many other industrialized nations, there is no organized green party in this country. As a result of Japan's economic difficulties during the past decade, all leading political parties now emphasize economic policy, while individual citizens are moved largely by concern for their pensions and, most recently, their jobs. In addition, the energies of the ambitious middle classes are largely consumed by long working hours, endless commutes, expensive schooling for the children, and the constant pressure not to fall behind the living standard of one's neighbors. Aside from election times, the average Japanese concerns him- or herself only marginally with politics, a fact further emphasized by the lack of stature of most Japanese politicians.
    Domestic vs industrial garbage

    All of which does not mean that people are indifferent to environmental issues on specific occasions. There are local protests against environmental pollution and local initiatives against ecologically problematic projects. Of the nine national surveys which have been conducted so far at local level in Japan, several have been about environmental issues. And people's close ties to neighborhood and community often have a positive impact on the environment. But it is a huge step from concern for cleanliness and organized garbage disposal in one's immediate neighborhood to resolving the waste disposal problems of a modern industrial society.

    Especially in the large urban agglomerations, Japan is on the verge of drowning in the detritus of prosperity. Though not as extensively as the Germans, the Japanese do emphasize waste disposal designed to facilitate recycling. In every neighborhood, people keep a careful lookout to insure that refuse is separated according to regulations. But there is a widespread lack of realization that the avoidance of unnecessary junk is even more valuable ecologically than its recycling. There are certainly places with a lower level of environmental awareness, but nowhere is one flooded every day with such a mass of packaging materials. It is symptomatic that a 1970 law, issued when waste disposal was beginning to be a serious problem, concerns itself only with responsibility for garbage removal but not with methods for reducing its sheer quantity.
    Here is the contentious point with Fugue. Even if some municipalities may have done a lot of progress, that is still too small and many big cities (Tokyo, Kyoto...) have more serious problems than not dividing wastes in enough categories. As I said, the major issue is the incinerators.

    Incidentally, I have also lived in Germany, and I think there is less difference in the waste sorting between Germany and Belgium than one of these countries and Tokyo. That certainly explains why I found the Tokyo sorting a bit simple. This article confirms.

    This article mentions only a tiny fractions of the problems raise by Alex Kerr in Dogs & Demons' 2 first chapters.

  16. #16
    Regular Member fugue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    These "signs" indicate to the citizens what day and time each kind of waste is collected. The only categories in my ward and at least 5 other wards around, are combustible (可燃ごみ), non-combustile (不燃ごみ) and recycleable (リサイクル or 資源) and big stuff (大型ゴミ).
    Originally you were saying ``there are only three types of refuse,'' ``separation is very simple (burnable, non-burnable, bottles)'' in Japan. What are these two categories newly popping up all of sudden? And what kind of ridiculous category is this ``recyclable'' anyway? How could this possibly be a single category? Are you supposed to put all kinds of ``recyclable'' waste ranging from newspapers to glass bottles together in one bag or what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    So far you have not been able to provide any additional information I asked about some Tokyo wards having more than the 3 above mentioned categories of waste.
    Why are you asking me? You should have known very well the ``additional information'' if you are living in Tokyo and complaining about Japan's waste management in the first place. Shinjuku city homepage explains in detail how to sort and prepare your waste and where to put for collection in Shinjuku-ku, for an example. The waste categories include:
    1. burnable (可燃ごみ)
    2. nonburnable (不燃ごみ)
    3. recyclable: waste papers (資源:古紙類)
    4. recyclable: bottles, cans (資源:びん・缶)
    5. recyclable: dry batteries (資源:乾電池)
    6. recyclable: paper packs (資源:紙パック)
    7. recyclable: plastic bottles (資源:ペットボトル)
    8. bulky (粗大ごみ)
    9. others: air conditioners, TV, refrigerators, washers (その他:エアコン・テレビ ・冷� 庫・洗濯機)
    10. others: home computers (その他:家庭系パソコン)

    Note that these are all separate categories. In some categories you have to sort further into sub-categories. For example, you cannot mix up newspapers, magazines, and cardboard even though they fall under the same ``waste paper.''

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    In Tokyo, I found that Katsushika-ku had 5 categories, Toshima-ku 4 categories, Suginami-ku 3 categories, Shinagawa-ku, etc. Complete list of wards' sites here.
    Here again, you originally didn't even know each city manages waste individually on its own rather than collectively by the national government. Anyway, you counted categories wrong above. Katsushika-ku has at least 7 categories (burnable, nonburnable, bulky, electric appliances, paper, bottles, cans) according to their website; Toshima-ku 17 categories (burnable, nonburnable, bulky, electric appliances, furniture, bottles, cans, plastic bottles, cardboard, thick paper boxes, wrapping papers, milk packs, styrol, plastic containers, newspapers, magazines, clothes); Suginami-ku 8 categories (burnable, nonburnable, bulky, computers, electric appliances, plastic bottles, paper packs, batteries).

    What city in Tokyo has only 3 categories? In what city do you live anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    It's only a quick Google search.
    That's a good start, considering you knew practically nothing earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    That means that even if I want to separate further my waste, it will all end up in one of these three category.
    All these years? That's bad.

  17. #17
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fugue
    Shinjuku city homepage explains in detail how to sort and prepare your waste and where to put for collection in Shinjuku-ku, for an example.
    Shinjuku seems to have more categories than the others I mentioned. Anyway, what I meant was the number of sepate days they took the garbage, and you still didn't answer whether they put all the PET bottles, cans, paper, cardboard, etc in the same truck or not. We do place the cardboard sparately (we keep them in on rainy days), but there is only one bag for cans and PET bottles and even tins, for instance. But as the refuse collector take the PET bottles, etc and the cardboard the same day, does that all end up in the same truck (I have never watched them take the garbage, but maybe you have). What I mean is that it is useless having 7 subcategories for recyclable if they put all in the same truck because they do not separate the days.

    And you still haven't talked about the important points. May I remind you that you criticized me for not knowing what I was talking about when I referred to Japan's ecological problems, but once I get an article that supports my facts (actually my facts already come from some books and newspaper articles), it seems that you loose your voice and try to divert the attention on a topic that wasn't important since the beginning, that is to say waste sorting.

  18. #18
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    What are these two categories newly popping up all of sudden?
    Two new ? I said that there were the following categories in my ward :
    1) combustible (可燃ごみ)
    2) incombustible (不燃ごみ)
    3) recyclable (資源)
    4) bulky (大型ごみ )

    I forgot to count 大型ごみ because it is not usual to dipose of one's fridge, TV or air conditioner (I have never done it in Japan) and it's not what I would usually call "waste" or "rubbish".

    Apparently, Shinjuku has a more efficient recycling method than my ward.
    In my ward, ordinary paper goes in 可燃ごみ. Only cardboard and newspapers/magazines goes to 資源 (along with PET bottles, cans and other bottles). Of course, people place bottles, cans, cardboards and newspapers separately at the waste collection point, but all end up in the same truck. So, unless they do separate everything manually afterwards, there is little point in having subcategories.

    My point is that in the EU countries where I have lived, there are special containers in every neighbourhood to dispose of glasses, and even these are separated in white glasses and coloured glasses. This is not new. I have always known it since I was a child. In Japan, some places have similar containers (quite far away from my house) and the one I have seen had all types of glasses are in one containers. I have also been used to having special places in the neighbourhood to dispose of newspapers and magazines, rather than just leave them for the refuse collector.

    In my ward, dry batteries go to 不燃ごみ with no special recepticle, along with metals, platsics, glass, rubber, leather, etc. I have attached a picture below.

    I admit that I may have overlooked the fact that each municipality had different waste management, but that is because it doesn't make much sense that even in the same city, one ward has 17 categories and the next one only 4 or 5. There is a need of harmonization here. That also doesn't solve the problem of the easy sorting of wastes in the 35,000+ "combini" throughout Japan, not the more alarming industrial waste issues and the way the 可燃ごみ are burnt in incinerators in residential areas.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  19. #19
    Regular Member fugue's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    you still didn't answer whether they put all the PET bottles, cans, paper, cardboard, etc in the same truck or not.
    There are several types of recycling trucks (資源回収車) to collect different categories of waste. Ex.: http://www.shinwa-d.com/newpage25.html

    And you still haven't talked about the important points.
    Below are some important facts that have been established so far:
    1. Waste is managed by each city in Japan, not by prefecture or the national government.
    2. Most cities in Japan have more than three categories of waste for collection.
    3. Maciamo didn't know the fact #1, and wrongly believed that the government of Japan (then of Tokyo) takes care of waste management previously.
    4. Maciamo didn't know the fact #2, and wrongly believed that there are only three categories of waste, namely ``burnable, non-burnable, bottles,'' in Japan (later in Tokyo) previously.
    5. Maciamo is criticizing the mindset of the whole nation of Japan being environmentally insensitive.
    6. Maciamo lives in a city in Tokyo.


    And some important inferences from the facts above:
    1. From fact #3, #4, it is rather Maciamo himself who is quite ignorant or undereducated on the issue of waste management.
    2. From fact #3, #4, #5, Maciamo is quick to make a blanket generalization and judge an entire nation negatively with wrong and scant information. I.e., Maciamo is a prejudiced person.
    3. From fact, #2, #6, The city in which Maciamo lives most likely has more than the three categories of waste mentioned by himself in fact #4.
    4. From fact #4 and inference #3, Maciamo is quite possibly not sorting and preparing waste for collection properly as required by the waste management plan of his city. I.e., Maciamo is poisonous to the environment of his locality.
    Last edited by fugue; Dec 23, 2004 at 21:34.

  20. #20
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    I'm sure it is differrent in different parts of Japan,

    and you would think Tokyo would be at the forefront of foreward thinking ( ) but apparently they aren't, I lived in a small town in Nara prefecture and they had three types of bags like you said:
    1) combustible (可燃ごみ)
    2) incombustible (不燃ごみ)
    3) recyclable (資源)
    But he recyclables actually had about 4 or 5 catagories that were only picked up once a month at a more centralized collection point that was a couple of blocks from my house. For example the first Friday of the month was aluminum cans and the 2nd Friday was PET bottles I don't remember the others cuz 80% of my reclyclables fit those 2 catagories. You used the same recyclable bags which were see through and if you brought the wrong thing on the wrong day it would get left behind. I really felt the locals were at least trying to be responsible. I always felt the area they needed to improve on was eliminating overpackaging, My neighbor had beer delivered to his apartment once a week and they picked up his old bottles to reuse them. I thought that was a step in the right direction.

  21. #21
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    If that makes you happy to believe that I don't sort my waste properly and my not knowing whether it is the local or national government that collect the wastes is your only defence against your total ignorance of the other points I mentioned, I think we can just stop this discussion, because nothing constructive is going to come from your side.

    Maciamo is criticizing the mindset of the whole nation of Japan being environmentally insensitive.
    I think I can maintain that because of the other points, and especially because not even a 0,3% of the Japanese voters necessary to elect one of the 480 Representatives have cared to elect a single member of the Green Party. Given that not enough Japanese seem to care enough about the issues I cited to make things change about what matters most.

    From fact #3, #4, #5, Maciamo is quick to make a blanket generalization and judge an entire nation negatively with wrong and scant information. I.e., Maciamo is a prejudiced person.
    Let's see. How many issuses did I mention to make my "blaket generalization with wrong or scant information" ? Let me remind you that the original article was not only about environmental but also health issues (which are related anyhow). I have classified them in order of importance (for me at least) :

    1) medical incompetence
    2) lack of Green Party (as it would solve most of the problems below, given enough power at the Parliament)
    3) carcerigenic incinerators in residential areas
    4) industrial waste (=> Minamata)
    5) nuclear safety
    6) lack of concern and awareness regarding AIDS
    7) lack of realization that "the avoidance of unnecessary junk is even more valuable ecologically than its recycling" (citing from the Neuer Zuricher's article)
    8) sorting of commercial waste (combini)
    9) sorting of domestic waste
    10) whale and dolphin hunting
    11) "concretization" of the Japanese nature (rivers, hills, coast...)
    12) lack of organic food in supermarkets

    The order is of course debatable as I have just done it quickly and some could be inverted depending on one's point of view or sensitivities. Nevertheless, there are 12 points (I may have forgotten others), and the only want that was based on "wrong or scant information" was number 9, i.e. one of the least important. And you call me judgemental after your last post !

  22. #22
    Regular Member fugue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    I think we can just stop this discussion, because nothing constructive is going to come from your side.
    1. Inquire about how to sort and prepare waste for collection as specified by the waste management plan of the city and start sorting out your waste properly asap.
    2. Stop making a hasty negative judgement about someone with wrong, scant knowledge and prejudice, esp. when you are criticizing such a large group of people in the lump as the Japanese.

    These two lessons for you should make the argument ``constructive'' in my opinion.

  23. #23
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fugue
    [*]Inquire about how to sort and prepare waste for collection as specified by the waste management plan of the city and start sorting out your waste properly asap.
    FYI, if you are worrying about me, I do put PET bottles, glass bottles and cardboards separately, next to the others at the waste collection point. I in fact rarely take the wastes outside myself. My wife usually does it because of our different schedule. When I do it, it's more often the burnable (twice a week) or non-burnable, than the recyclables. Anyway, we have very little recyclable apart from PET bottles, given that I never buy newspapers or magazines (no, not even one in 3 years in Japan) and we very rarely buy glass bottles for drinks. Cardboards are nicely crushed and tied with a rope. But as I said, it's not me who takes these out anyway. As you have seen on the attached picture, my ward only has 4 cats (大型ごみ never used so far, and not much else than PET bottles in our case for the recyclable) and does not have many subcategories.

  24. #24
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    I don't know if you guys heard this news - but it is official - the Midori no Kaigi - the Enviormental Green party - which had no seats elected - has dissolved.

  25. #25
    wishing for a girlfriend Xkavar's Avatar
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    And some important inferences from the facts above:
    From fact #3, #4, it is rather Maciamo himself who is quite ignorant or undereducated on the issue of waste management.
    From fact #3, #4, #5, Maciamo is quick to make a blanket generalization and judge an entire nation negatively with wrong and scant information. I.e., Maciamo is a prejudiced person.
    From fact, #2, #6, The city in which Maciamo lives most likely has more than the three categories of waste mentioned by himself in fact #4.
    From fact #4 and inference #3, Maciamo is quite possibly not sorting and preparing waste for collection properly as required by the waste management plan of his city. I.e., Maciamo is poisonous to the environment of his locality.

    Hi. I'm a jackass who blindly insults a guy about environmental causes and effect in a country without bothering to bring up any countering arguments or proof of my own.

    Japan sucks. Japan sucks. Japan sucks. Your country sucks, Fugue, and so do you.

    Now that that's out of the way, let's talk about recyling point by point and ask some questions about Japanese recycling that needs to be said.

    1. How much of the materials in Japan have been re-used in other products? (Water bottles, tin cans, paper of any kind?)

    2. If Japan recycles plastic, what numbers are they? (There are official names on the bottom of the bottles ranging from 1 to 10; as of 1992 the United States was officially recycling types 1 and 2 while disposing of the rest.

    3. If Japan recycles paper, how much of the paper products availble for consumer purchase (everything from fast food resturant bags to newspaper to cardboard boxes)
    come from recycled goods?

    4. Does Japan have an official environmental department that is part of the government no matter what? In the United States, we have the Environmental Protection Agency, which does an average-to-above average job of enforcing environmental criminal and civil activity in law and courts.

    5. Are environmental issues taught in the Japanese school system, and if so, is there a stronger emphasis in teaching these issues in public or private schools?

    6. Are there any other methods of disposing trash in Japan other than incineration?

    Answer these questions with more than a one-liner and I'll get back to you.

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