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Thread: Discrimination in Japan

  1. #126
    Regular Member myrrhine's Avatar
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    i'm curious - although the discussion of racial discrimination here has been extensive, no one's mentioned gender discrimination since the first post...

    has anyone in here experienced or heard anything about that? i've heard some horror stories about sexual harasment in japanese corporations (also heard that progress has been made), but what's it like for, say, women teachers? or in general, going about daily life - has anyone run into any trouble specifically because they're female/male?

  2. #127
    Regular Member Timsan's Avatar
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    Racism is everywhere. Always has been, always will be. Get used to it.
    "A single death is a tradgedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Stalin

  3. #128
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myrrhine
    i'm curious - although the discussion of racial discrimination here has been extensive, no one's mentioned gender discrimination since the first post...
    I did, in the article in link.

    i've heard some horror stories about sexual harasment
    So you haven't heard of politically sponsored gang rape, widespread and now almost socially accepted teenage prostitution, or salarymen's orgies with hundreds of prostitutes in China or other Asian countries ?

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  4. #129
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    the issue of discrimination is a never ending story. it's everywhere. sad,sad,sad...

  5. #130
    Banned Mike Cash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grounded in japan
    i've lived in japan for 4 years and have never been discriminated against.
    Jesus must love you more than he does me. Either that or you lead a particularly sheltered existence in Japan.

  6. #131
    Manga Psychic PaulTB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    So you haven't heard of politically sponsored gang rape, widespread and now almost socially accepted teenage prostitution, or salarymen's orgies with hundreds of prostitutes in China or other Asian countries ?
    I heard that excessive self-linking can lead to blindness - metaphorical anyway.

    I'd be one of the first to admit that Japan has problems in that area but it's far from the only or even the worst such country.

  7. #132
    Regular Member myrrhine's Avatar
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    obviously those links illustrate a frightening attitude held by some men concerning women, sex etc... esp the gang rape one... *shudder*

    but what i was curious about was the stuff that doesn't make the papers, daily stuff that people have to put up with due to gender. i'm not even necessarily just talking about harassment here, basically i was curious how peoples gender has shaped their experiences in japan...

  8. #133
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulTB
    I heard that excessive self-linking can lead to blindness - metaphorical anyway.
    Haha, good one ! Nevertheless my articles get their sources from the BBC or other reputed news agencies. I only do the selection.

    I'd be one of the first to admit that Japan has problems in that area but it's far from the only or even the worst such country.
    Did I ever say that ? Would I be living in Japan if it was the worst country in this regard ? This is just very indirect criticism of the rest of the world from me. As you may have realised from other threads, I said I felt little attachment to one particular country, even the one where I was born. I have lived in 6 countries, travelled to about 40 and get every occasion I can to learn about the rest of the world. This could be because I am an idealist (veiled in cynicism) that wishes to live in better society, but can't find it. So, I am letting people guess that if I am living in Japan, it is probably because it is a better place to live than anywhere else I know of, and eventhough I haven't found better in average, it is still far from perfect.

  9. #134
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    Racism

    Racism is for the feeble and narrow minded! It is such arrogance that has torn Civilization after Civilization and Country after Country apart!

    When will mankind learn the power of the human race as one, a whole and not divided.

    It is until such mindsets are erased we as human beings are doomed to repeat our mistakes!!! [/B



    I pray for the day Mankind is united as one in mind body and spirit.....


    RED NINJA

  10. #135
    Regular Member Shiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    For example, among people living in Japan, Koreans commit proportionally almost 5 times less crimes than Japanese,
    Is there any source?

    I thought such stats have not even been open to the public. What the NPA released are about the foreign visitors' crime. Naturalized Koreans and immigrated Koreans are not included in those foreigners.

  11. #136
    Regular Member bossel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiro
    Is there any source?

    I thought such stats have not even been open to the public. What the NPA released are about the foreign visitors' crime. Naturalized Koreans and immigrated Koreans are not included in those foreigners.
    Maciamo has put some effort into explaining this stuff here:

    http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7372

  12. #137
    Mazu mazu dana Shin Asura's Avatar
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    I grew up liking Japan in the US so I never really came across this subject until later in my life.

    When I leard about this discrimination problem (I'm black), to be honest, I got scared because here I loved Japan so much but I didn't want to be rejected if I went there. I kept going back and forth on whether I should give up my love for Japan because I didn't want to get hurt, for awhile I did and stopped listening to my Jrock/Jpop songs, stopped watching anime, and stopped playing my import videogames.

    When you have strong feelings for something, they always seem to come back to you, no matter what the circumstance is. In the end, my undying love for Japan saved me. I asked myself, what the hell was I doing? I love Japan, discrimination shouldn't affect it. Since then, I started meeting Japanese students at a Community College here, I help them learn English and they help me with my Japanese. I've met a few friends online as well.

    In the end, I decided that I love Japan way too much to let anything detour me.

  13. #138
    Regular Member stupidumboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiro
    Is there any source?

    I thought such stats have not even been open to the public. What the NPA released are about the foreign visitors' crime. Naturalized Koreans and immigrated Koreans are not included in those foreigners.
    Neutralized Koreans are legally included to Japanese citizens.
    Immigrated ones(Zainizhi) are legally included Korean citizens when we make this kind calculation.

  14. #139
    Regular Member Shiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bossel
    Maciamo has put some effort into explaining this stuff here:

    http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7372
    The residents and the visitors are confused in his calculation.
    That means nothing at all. I guess he should have been aware of;

    * the 'residents' means registered foreigners.
    * more than 70% of foreign visitors are unregistered (short term stay visitors).
    * the NPA's foreign criminal stats are about the crimes of foreign visitors (rainichi gikokujin)
    * 'foreign visitors' does not include permanent residents and immigrated Koreans according to the NPA's definition of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by stupidumboy
    Neutralized Koreans are legally included to Japanese citizens.
    Immigrated ones(Zainizhi) are legally included Korean citizens when we make this kind calculation.
    Yeah, naturalized Koreans are legally Japanese, zainichi Koreans are legally foreigners. What I meant was that zainichi Koreans are counted as a kind of permanent residents in the NPA's stats, and the permanent residents' crime stats are not released as far as I know.

  15. #140
    Regular Member stupidumboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiro
    The residents and the visitors are confused in his calculation.
    That means nothing at all. I guess he should have been aware of;

    * the 'residents' means registered foreigners.
    * more than 70% of foreign visitors are unregistered (short term stay visitors).
    * the NPA's foreign criminal stats are about the crimes of foreign visitors (rainichi gikokujin)
    * 'foreign visitors' does not include permanent residents and immigrated Koreans according to the NPA's definition of it.

    Yeah, naturalized Koreans are legally Japanese, zainichi Koreans are legally foreigners. What I meant was that zainichi Koreans are counted as a kind of permanent residents in the NPA's stats, and the permanent residents' crime stats are not released as far as I know.

    Could you please make your own calculation again and show the result(Crimes per capita by nationality)and sources?
    The NPA report seems like to be about crimes commited by foreigners living in Japan.

    http://www.npa.go.jp/kokusai2/15b/siryo.pdf

    The Zainichi are included into the registered foreigners living in Japan according to this linked page.
    http://www.stat.go.jp/english/data/n...u/y0214000.xls

    I am still very confused.
    You told :
    * the NPA's foreign criminal stats are about the crimes of foreign visitors (rainichi gikokujin)
    ====>I am just very curious where I can check this factor.

    Thank you.

    EDIT:YOU ARE RIGHT ,I did not read the kanji very carefully.

    It was about the crimes of 來日 foreigners.
    So we need to get the result in different ways.

    anyways I think the rate of Korean crime will not get worse very much because the number of Korean tourists visited Japan is merely over 1 million annually.(Its bigger number than total Zainichi)

    Plus if the number of students included -the 來日 Korean number is bigger.

  16. #141
    Manga Psychic PaulTB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stupidumboy
    It was about the crimes of 來日 foreigners.
    By the way, the usual kanji would be 来日 (來日 is an older version).

  17. #142
    Regular Member stupidumboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulTB
    By the way, the usual kanji would be 来日 (來日 is an older version).

    Yes,thank you very much for your kind correction.
    I typed Korean version of kanji without notification.

  18. #143
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiro
    The residents and the visitors are confused in his calculation.
    That means nothing at all. I guess he should have been aware of;

    * the 'residents' means registered foreigners.
    * more than 70% of foreign visitors are unregistered (short term stay visitors).
    * the NPA's foreign criminal stats are about the crimes of foreign visitors (rainichi gikokujin)
    * 'foreign visitors' does not include permanent residents and immigrated Koreans according to the NPA's definition of it.
    Do you mean that 来日外国人 (rainichi gaikokujin) includes only short-term visitors on a 3 months or less visa, and not all the residents even on a 1-year visa ? (watch out that most residents are NOT permanent residents) If that is true, I'll have to recalculate the figures, but that also mean that the crime rate for most nationalities (especially Westerners as there are much more Western short-term visitors than Western residents) will be lower than announced.

    As you can see here, in 2002, there were 5,77 million foreigners who entered in Japan (which I think fits better the meaning of "rainichi"), but 4,3 million were temporary visitors. Anyhow, that shows that the number of temporary visitors coming to Japan annually is over twice the number of registered foreigners of all status (1,9 million).

    Given that the 1,224 Brazilians and 573 Peruvians arrested (in the NPA report) refer to non registered visitors and not to the registered residents, for example, the crime rate for Brazilian would 1,67% (instead of 0,46%) and 4,77% for Peruvians (instead of 1,12%), as there are 268,000 registered Brazilians and 51,000 registered Peruvians in Japan, but only 73,000 (non registered) Brazilian visitors and 12,000 Peruvians visitors in 2002. It's possible though, as Chinese keep a similar crime rate of about 2%, as there were about the same number of residents and visitors. Vietnamese would have a higher crime rate, 4,48% instead of an already high 3,4%.

    I am also happy to see that the crime rate of British people would fall from 0,39% to 0,01%, as there are only 18,000 British residents in Japan, but 379,000 annual visitors. Same for American, whose crime rate would fall from 0,35% to 0,02%. Nothing to say, if the NPA stats are really for visitors, Westerners in Japan have a much, much lower crime rate (around 0,02 at most) than the Japanese (who are at 0,34%). Even Russian's crime rate would fall from 4,05% (incredibly high) to a more reasonable 0,69%.

    Sources : Persons who entered or departed Japan by nationality

  19. #144
    Regular Member stupidumboy's Avatar
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    We need to add some modification for this calculation of foreigners' crimes in Japan.

    We can see the number of foreigners who visited Japan in 2003(Hesei 15) by nationality here(来日) ----------->http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/STA/PDF/E2003.pdf

    We can see the number of crimes that commited by foreigners who visited Japan in 2003(Hesei 15) here(来日 by nationality)------>
    http://www.npa.go.jp/toukei/index.htm

    for example,1>number of Koreans who visited Japan in 2003 was 1,459,333
    2>number of Korean criminals arrested by NPA in 2003 was 2,973

    Therefore the crime number commited by one Korean who visited Japan in 2003 is 2,973 /1,459,333=0.002036 ,approximately 0.002.

    (But,I do not think this is very correct calculation becuase these two numbers are not match exactly for 2003 -for example the arrested Korean criminals might have come to Japan in 2001 2002 or whatever)

    Other national record would be different if you use this material.

    means 490 Korean visitors commited one number of crime in 2003.

    In other words ,one out of 490 Korean visitors in Japan was a criminal.

    what about Japanese?

    *note:I really do not like this kind of topic,however I have been always curious of this foreign criminal rate in Japan because Koreans are often labeled as criminals in Japan.*

    EDIT:sorry for many changement,but Korean criminal number that arrested by NPA in 2003 was 1,793.

    1,793/1,459,333 =0.00122,approximately 0.001
    means 813 Korean visitors commited one number of crime in 2003.
    In other words ,one out of 813 Korean visitors in Japan was a criminal.

  20. #145
    Regular Member Shiro's Avatar
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    来日外国人 basically means 'foreigners in Japan except for permanent visa holders'.

    "Rainichi gaikokujin applies to all the foreigners in Japan except for permanent residents, specially permitted permanent residents (zainichi Koreans), members of the U.S. force in Japan and unidentified ones"

    http://www.han.org/oldboard/hanboard5/msg/1663.html
    http://www.pdc.npa.go.jp/hakusyo/h15/html/E1101011.html

    Also, crime stats are annual. You can't place the number of visitors on the same level with the population. You know, if you do so, it will make a three-day visiting criminal same as a one-year visitor who is supposed to commit a crime once in a year. In order to figure out the population, you must multiply the the number of visitors by "their average stay/365".

    The difficulty is that such 'length of every visitors' stay' is almost impossible to comprehend . That's why any website about this issue is not clarifying of the population (not the number) of rainichi gaikokujin. We can only estimate it roughly.

  21. #146
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiro
    The difficulty is that such 'length of every visitors' stay' is almost impossible to comprehend . That's why any website about this issue is not clarifying of the population (not the number) of rainichi gaikokujin. We can only estimate it roughly.
    Anyway, I doubt that tourists or business people, who make up most of the short-term visitors, commit a lot of crimes, except for offenses such as visa overstaying...

    Quote Originally Posted by stupidumboy
    1,793/1,459,333 =0.00122,approximately 0.001
    You forgot to multiply by 100 for the %age. So it is 0,1%

    ------------------

    Alright, so let's recalculate the percentage using the number of tourists + the number of registered foreigners. Unfortunately I don't have the figures for the total number of foreigners (including tourists) annually by nationality. There is only registered foreigners (i.e. staying over 3 months, on long-term visas), total visitors (but does not include foreigners who haven't left/re-enter Japan that year), and total of tourists. So I'll take the tourists (or non-residents) and add the registered foreigners (or residents), which would be about the right number.

    Country : residents + tourists = total => crime rate (total/no people arrested)

    Korea : 625,422 + 917,590 = 1,543,012 => 0,12%
    China : 424,282 + 95,991 = 520,273 => 1,73%
    USA : 47,970 + 350,674 = 398,644 => 0,04%
    Brazil : 268,332 + 5,121 = 273,453 => 0,45%
    Philippines : 169,359 + 26,742 = 196,101 => 0,68%
    UK : 18,508 + 110,510 = 129,018 => 0,05%
    Thailand : 33,736 + 43,832 = 77,568 => 0,9%
    Russia : 6,026 + 18,342 = 24,368 => 1%

    Iran, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Peru => unknown number of tourists, but less than 4,300 (less than 5,100 for Peru). The minimum crime rate below assume that there were about 4,300 tourists (5,100 for Peru) from these countries. The maximum crime rate assume that there were no tourists at all. So it is somewhere in between.

    Peru : 51,272 + ? => min. 1,02% ; max. 1,12%
    Vietnam : 21,050 + ? => min. 2,84% ; max. 3,4%
    Bangladesh : 8,703 + ? => min. 2,4% ; max. 3,5%
    Pakistan : 8,225 + ? => min. 2,4% ; max. 3,7%
    Iran : 5,769 + ? => min. 4,1% ; max. 7,1%

    This time we can see that British and American have by far the lowest crime rate, then come the Koreans. The highest crime rate among sure figures is for the Chinese, who are 43x more likely to commit crimes in Japan than Americans. However, Iranians, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Vietnamese still have a much higher crime rate, whatever the real number of tourists.

  22. #147
    Regular Member Minxie's Avatar
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    Racism in Japan is very widespread. Here are some examples i learned in my History class as well as from my mom and other Japanese people.

    1. If you are not 100% Japanese, don't live in Japan etc. the Japanese will not recognize you as being truly Japanese, but yes, will treat you as a foreigner. They do show respect for them, but its more because they HAVE too.

    2. If you are Japanese, but you moved to the US or another country and go back to Japan, you are an "unclean" Japanese person. These people think that Japan is the greatest thing, and why would anyone leave it?

    These 2 notions go hand in hand with the concept of Japanese tradition - the concept of taking off your shoes before you enter the house. The Japanese feel that it is out of respect for yourself, as well as your home, to not bring dirt - an unpure/dirty thing, into your home; they want to keep their house very clean and pure. Basically this means that they don't like outsiders so much coming in and would rather have their country just with all Japanese people. I asked around about this to make sure back when i took my history class, and my mom said that was held accountable.

    My own personal experience is that because im mixed w/ 1/2 japanese & 1/2 white... i had a hard time growing up around japanese people. I used to attend a Japanese school every Saturday in the US so i could study my own language and heritage, however, no Japense person accepted me. I didn't understand why until i learned in my history class about this problem of "if you are not 100% japanese, you are not japanese at all". It is a powerful stigma, but a lot of people are oblivious to it, unless they experiecne it themselves etc.

    In terms of racisim towards China & Korea... racisim against those countries are high as well. Take for example the Nanking Massacre where Japanese people raped and killed many men and women, or the Korean comfort women, where Japan went to Korea and brought back many women so that the Japanese men could sleep with them or rape them. Japanese people think they are highly superior to everyone, and therefore they are highly ethnocentric. Once again, if you are not Japanese, they feel that they can do whatever they want, and don't care what they do, because they don't like anyone outside their own culture/heritage.

    However, generations and views change. The younger generation, as i have read in other posts, definitely has different views. The older generation is probably the most racist because of events that happened - ie: Pearl Harbor, the Bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, etc. Racism occurs when a country/nation is defeated, or if those "other" people are not of their own or may actually be more skilled than them.

    The thing is... one has to overcome their racisim to truly accept/understand what really led them to feel that way.

    Remember... i am both Japanese and American, so my views are unbiased, but i do argue both sides of the point.

    thanks 4 reading...
    -.Minxie.-

  23. #148
    Regular Member Eisuke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minxie

    1. If you are not 100% Japanese, don't live in Japan etc. the Japanese will not recognize you as being truly Japanese, but yes, will treat you as a foreigner. They do show respect for them, but its more because they HAVE too.
    Ofcourse they will treat you as not a true Japanese if that person doesn't live in Japan. You don't necessarily have to be 100% Japanese blood to be considered a Japanese. If that person lives in Japan, has Japanese nationality and if that person also looks like a Japanese mostly, has at least some Japanese roots and can speak the language well then that person will be considered a Japanese.

  24. #149
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minxie
    My own personal experience is that because im mixed w/ 1/2 japanese & 1/2 white... i had a hard time growing up around japanese people. I used to attend a Japanese school every Saturday in the US so i could study my own language and heritage, however, no Japense person accepted me. I didn't understand why until i learned in my history class about this problem of "if you are not 100% japanese, you are not japanese at all".
    Yes, but how old were you ? Are children aware of this stigma too ?

    You said that Japanese leaving their country are not considered as true Japanese, but the class you took were in the US with other children of Japanese migrants who were not native speakers of Japanese, weren't they ? So if you were discriminated by Japanese who were born in the US speaking English, then maybe the reason is that they were frustrated too not to be "true Japanese", born and raised in Japan.

    However, true Japanese in Japan tend to consider Caucasians as more beautiful and some would say racially superior. That is why so many younger Japanese women prefer Western men to Japanese ones, and crave to have a baby that is "half" because they are said to be more beautiful than the pure Japanese. Many "half-Japanese half-Caucasian" become TV stars or models in Japan. Actually it's not just with Caucasians, as one of the most famous TV stars in Japan (and one of the most famous "gaijin") is the magician Cyril (or "Sero" in Japanese), who is half Japanese, half-Moroccan (so Arabic), but born and raised in the US. And I admit that he is very handsome.

    ...or the Korean comfort women, where Japan went to Korea and brought back many women so that the Japanese men could sleep with them or rape them. Japanese people think they are highly superior to everyone, and therefore they are highly ethnocentric.
    Nowadays Japanese men only "rape" Chinese or South-East Asian women in "Soaplands" (brothels) or on sex tours to those countries. But you still have a point. What is more, during WWII, the price of prostitutes depended on their ethnic origin, with Japanese being the most expensive, followed by Koreans, Chinese, then at the bottom of the scale South-East Asian.

  25. #150
    Junior Member Sundiata_Xian_Tellem's Avatar
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    Greetings All:
    I read the article, "Discrimination in Japan" and I found it to be interesting. The root of Japanese discrimination,- if I read it correctly- stems from more of a cultural base insted of a skin color base, unlike the evil "varna" caste system of India whereas the darker the skin color the worse you're treated.
    It's weird how people of color can adopt a system that they originally didn't create. The history of India;Pre-Aryan invasion, shows that all Indians were of color (various shades of brownish skin) and didn't fight over color until the Brahma/Vedic/Aryans set up the caste system.
    If only the light-skinned Indians could visit good old Texas(USA) they would learn quickly that they were people of color just like any other person of color...Ask the Sikh's Community here in Dallas, Texas...ask them what happened to a few of them after the 911 Terrorist Attacks.
    One was shot mistake for an Arab (another people of color with light brown-skin).
    I will be glad of the day when people of color stop acting like their former colonial slave masters...fore that type of mind set only benefits their master's descendants.

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