For or against the "gaikokujin tourokusho" ?

**Maciamo** · Jan 22, 2004, 12:59

Easy question, just to get an idea of how other foreigners in Japan feel abbout it : Are you for or against the "gaikokujin tourokusho" (alien registration card) that all foreigners have to carry if they stay more than 3 months in Japan ?

Some have criticised it as a form of discrimination, even comparing it to the Nazi system with the Jews. I guess that was especially when people had to have their fingerprints on it, but I have never known this system.

Personally, I see more advantages than inconvenients. It makes it easier to prove one's status, to get official documents or to open a bank account. Japanese tend to be in trouble when asked for official identification to open a bank account, get a video club member's card or apply for a job. As they don't have any identity cards, and most leave their passport at home, they have to get some kind of other official paper, such as insurance payments or family register, but those don't have pictures, so are less reliable and don't always work. But that's quite a hassle as one doesn't normally carry that kind of documents with them. With the gaikokujin tourokusho, no need to keep one's passport in the wallet, nor any other cumbersome documents. Just a little card. I can't think of any drawbacks either...

**Ghost** · Jan 22, 2004, 13:11

Not sure, never been though that sorta thing......yet.

**Iron Chef** · Jan 22, 2004, 16:09

I'm all for it. I found it to be quite handy whenever I needed to do anything requiring me to sign up for any sort of membership (video or karaoke clubs for instance). Wasn't too keen on the fingerprinting at the time (which thankfully is no longer done) but all in all I thought it was convenient to have.

Btw, in case anyone doesn't know what they look like, below is an example (all personal info distorted naturally) taken from someone's weblog I found while doing a search for an example to post. (http://www.blogd.com/archives/000142.html)

**Erik** · Jan 22, 2004, 16:16

Yeah, it's a handy piece of photo ID... They should do something similar in every country... Fits in the wallet nicely... rather carry this than a passport.

**jeisan** · Jan 22, 2004, 16:32

wouldnt bother me any. youre required to carry photo ID if youre over 18 in the states, a drivers license suffices. which they take your thumbprints for, even if youre renewing or changing address, well in texas anyway.
makes me wonder, dont the japanese have drivers licenses? or are they just different than the ones here?

**Maciamo** · Jan 22, 2004, 20:14

Originally posted by jeisan

makes me wonder, dont the japanese have drivers licenses? or are they just different than the ones here?

Well, not everybody has a driver's licence. Having a car is almost unnecessary in a city like Tokyo (where almost 1/4 of all Japanese live). I personally don't see the need for one. Once you know you have to pay for a permanent parking space about 300US$/month (as very few houses have garages, and no garden at all in central Tokyo) and it cost about 1000US$ to actually get the driver's licence, and you have to renew it (and pay a few hundred US$) every few years, it is really not surprising that less Japanese have driver's licence than in Western countries (especially in such a vast country as the USA, where people can drive as early as 14, while it's 18 in Japan and Europe).

But which countries really have proper ID cards ? In Europe, Austria, Finland, France, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal and Sweden have made ID cards voluntary; Belgium, Germany, Greece and Spain require citizens to carry the ID with them at all times. The UK doesn't have any, but is planning to introduce them. Ireland, Denmark, Japan, the US and I believe Canada & Australia don't have any. What about other countries ?

**okaeri_man** · Jan 10, 2005, 17:42

Originally Posted by Maciamo

But which countries really have proper ID cards ?... Ireland, Denmark, Japan, the US and I believe Canada & Australia don't have any. What about other countries?

woah woah woah, back up a bit. australia isn't living in the stone ages here. a driver's licence suffices for everything, and everybody keeps it in their wallet all the time. people can get their L's from the age of 16, so most people over 16 have a valid ID. if however you don't want to drive, you can get a proof of age card to certify you are over 18, which also suffices for everything. no worries, no fuss.

i think the gaikokujin tourokusho is unnecessary and would agree it is a form of discrimination.

**lineartube** · Jan 22, 2004, 20:27

It's weird reading about a comparison of a national ID card to part of a Nazi system. It's not the firts time I stumble upon it, but I also don't know if it is a history myth or not...

Anyway, I can say that in Portugal, every citizen as an ID card and I haven't a problem with it... despite having a finger print of mine in it. I never thought much of the ID card system, because it's been institutionalized for years in Portugal and it's quite handy when you have to show a proof of identity. Passports and drivers licenses are not an option here, because you first need an ID card to get those, but they can also work as a proof of identification since they are oficial papers and carry at least, a photography.

If the Japanese want to innovate, why not a RFID tag planted under the skin?

**jeisan** · Jan 22, 2004, 20:29

the US is a bit tricky on this, while i dont think the nation as a whole requires ID, but most if not all of the states require persons over 18, 16 in some, to carry a valid state issued or military ID card. they can actually fine you for not having it. a drivers license covers the state issed ID as the 2 or hardly different besides the words at the top, hell you have to get the ID at the department of motor vehichles anyway lol

**mad pierrot** · Jan 22, 2004, 21:53

I like it. In fact, I like it so much I have 2.
(Thought I lost the first, got another, then found the old one.)

At least it's fun to show folks back home!

**neko_girl22** · Jan 22, 2004, 23:27

I have no problem with it and yep it was convenient when I signed up at a new video store last week.
Although, the card is in my maiden name (because my passport is) which caused some confusion when I signed the form with my Japanese name

**neko_girl22** · Jan 22, 2004, 23:28

p.s do you get in a heap of trouble if you are found not carrying it? It's in my wallet so it's with me nearly all the time, but sometimes I might go out and forget it .........

**Elgin** · Jan 23, 2004, 00:18

Well in Canada you have a health card, you need it to get medication and a trip to the doctors, etc. It has your picture and alot of info on you so you can use it as a ID. But many places don't accept it as a ID, like for buying smokes lol well it is a health card.

**Uncle Frank** · Jan 23, 2004, 01:28

We all have those litte chips like they put in annimals. It will have our life history and every little detail of our life. There will be scanners everywhere to track us. Law enforcement agencies will all have little TV type scanners they just hold next to us so they can read it. They just have to figure out where to implant it so it can't be tampered with; like deep in our brain where tampering with it would kill you. Then they have to figure a way to up-date it without the possibility of it being altered by non-governmental officials. WOW, sounds so parinoid !!

Frank

**lineartube** · Jan 23, 2004, 02:43

I don't know, but... a system that would allowed me not to carry a bulky wallet filled with an ID card, credit and debit cards, video cards and so on, wouldn't probably be so bad if it was in the shape of some sort of RFID tag.

Then again, the aliens would only need to home in their death lazers at our unique RFIDs and we wouldn't be able to hide.... though decision...

It comes down to the level of trust you put on your government, whichever nation you belong to, and I've never seen a degree of trust toward a government body that would make anyone get tagged like animals. Well, maybe in totalitarian states, where your opinion as the common citizen doesn't amount to anything..

**Maciamo** · Jan 23, 2004, 13:18

Instead of chips implanted in the skin, why not just have a single personal card that act as ID/passport, healtyh care, credit/debit card, and could be used for any club membership too. Actually it's not so difficult technically. I already have a international debit card that can be used as telephone card, and the EU is going to impose a EU-wide health card (that some countries already have, as I do), with a chip that is only readable by special machines that each hospital, pharmacy or doctor should have. So instead of carrying loads of insurance papers, vaccination card, medical history, etc., everything is on the card. It's safer than papers as nobody can read them without the machine.
I heard that in some countries like Switzerland, they already have card-like passport, where all the visas and "stamps" are added electronically (but not all customs are equipped to read them !).
That wouldn't e too difficult to combine all of these in a single card. Then all shops and clubs should be equipped with a machine that allow them to add/edit their own memberships, without having access to other data (with password system or something).

**Rio Lee** · Jan 10, 2005, 19:37

Originally Posted by Maciamo

Instead of chips implanted in the skin, why not just have a single personal card that act as ID/passport, healtyh care, credit/debit card, and could be used for any club membership too. Actually it's not so difficult technically. I already have a international debit card that can be used as telephone card, and the EU is going to impose a EU-wide health card (that some countries already have, as I do), with a chip that is only readable by special machines that each hospital, pharmacy or doctor should have. So instead of carrying loads of insurance papers, vaccination card, medical history, etc., everything is on the card. It's safer than papers as nobody can read them without the machine.
I heard that in some countries like Switzerland, they already have card-like passport, where all the visas and "stamps" are added electronically (but not all customs are equipped to read them !).
That wouldn't e too difficult to combine all of these in a single card. Then all shops and clubs should be equipped with a machine that allow them to add/edit their own memberships, without having access to other data (with password system or something).

My country is currently trying to implement this. The goverment is forcing everyone to get this new Smarcard IDCard by december 2005. Before it was like the gaijin card with the fingerprints. I heard that card can be used as a ID Card, ATM/Credit card, health card, passport and etc. But I think this kind of card will cause much more worst things if someone able to fraud it, compared to the normal ID card with the fingerprints.

**Hachiko** · Jan 23, 2004, 13:21

IMHO, if the gaijin need this, EVERYONE in Japan (native/naturalized citizens included) needs it. It's only fair.

**Kiyotsuki** · Jan 23, 2004, 13:41

That is true.
Seeing what everyone else says, I guess I would find it convenient as well. Of course, I don't mind having to do anything unless it's totally unreasonable.

I've noticed Japanese government is in EXTREME control of their gaijin population.
What are the citizenship laws of Japan?

**Ewok85** · Jan 23, 2004, 13:59

I think its a good idea, I cant use my drivers liscence for everything (has the aussie address, not japanese). But then again i didnt have a card

**Erik** · Jan 23, 2004, 16:22

Originally posted by Luc
Well in Canada you have a health card, you need it to get medication and a trip to the doctors, etc. It has your picture and alot of info on you so you can use it as a ID. But many places don't accept it as a ID, like for buying smokes lol well it is a health card.

Not every province has a picture on the health card. I'm assuming your from ontario... When I was living in ontario, I had a picture ID health card... but in BC the card has no picture.

**Erik** · Jan 23, 2004, 16:28

Originally posted by Maciamo
Instead of chips implanted in the skin, why not just have a single personal card that act as ID/passport, healtyh care, credit/debit card, and could be used for any club membership too. Actually it's not so difficult technically. I already have a international debit card that can be used as telephone card, and the EU is going to impose a EU-wide health card (that some countries already have, as I do), with a chip that is only readable by special machines that each hospital, pharmacy or doctor should have. So instead of carrying loads of insurance papers, vaccination card, medical history, etc., everything is on the card. It's safer than papers as nobody can read them without the machine.
I heard that in some countries like Switzerland, they already have card-like passport, where all the visas and "stamps" are added electronically (but not all customs are equipped to read them !).
That wouldn't e too difficult to combine all of these in a single card. Then all shops and clubs should be equipped with a machine that allow them to add/edit their own memberships, without having access to other data (with password system or something).

I guess this really depends on the country, but Canada and the US would have a harder time doing something like this as each province/state acts independently issuing their own DL, Healthcards, birth certificates. I agree with you that it is technically possible, but that would be just plain and simply too convienent for those governments.

**Ahazmaksya** · Jan 23, 2004, 17:55

Originally posted by Hachiko
IMHO, if the gaijin need this, EVERYONE in Japan (native/naturalized citizens included) needs it. It's only fair.

*Agrees*. Foreigners should just be able to use the same identifcation as the Japanese use, there is no need to be singled out

**Mike Cash** · Jan 9, 2005, 13:09

Originally Posted by Ahazmaksya

*Agrees*. Foreigners should just be able to use the same identifcation as the Japanese use, there is no need to be singled out

Foreigners can use the same identification the Japanese do. The gaijin card isn't meant to be some all-purpose identification card. When I am asked for identificiation, I normally use my driver's license.

**Keeni84** · Jan 24, 2004, 06:00

In America, if a police officer asks for your ID and you don't have one, and he suspects you being over the age of 18 (or sometimes 16) she can take you down to the station.

I personally don't see anything wrong with an ID card, just as long as people don't get crazy with it, and ask me to show my ID everywhere I go or every time I'm peacefully walking down the street.

ID cards are only harmful if they are used in malice.