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Thread: Enjo Kosai : the issue of teenage prostitution

  1. #26
    Regular Member moyashi's Avatar
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    hmmm, interesting thing is happening. Before at one time many would ahem mend their ways and return to a somewhat normal life. But, recently you see news stories of mothers and fathers killing their children since they cry too much, they no longer have "play" time or are just a pain in the a_s.

    Drugs are normally for the young kids. Most 30 years have grown out of it.
    crazy gonna crazy

  2. #27
    Decommissioned ex-admin thomas's Avatar
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    More on teenage prostitution:

    Slanted sex culture stoking deviant desire in schoolgirls

    "Mamoru Fukutomi, professor at Tokyo Gakugei University, attributes problems involving teen-age prostitution through Internet dating sites to men's distorted awareness of sexuality and a lack of appropriate sexual education. [...]"

    Hear, hear...

    => http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/features/0...hoolgirls.html

  3. #28
    Regular Member moyashi's Avatar
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    hmmm ... but nothing beats supply and demand.

    Probably the only way out of this vicious circle is to break the economics involved here. Put more Osakan Ingenuity into Soaplands and drop the prices. Or put the police on the streets, enforce the drinking age which will kill many local drinking districts and the economy with it, yet, protect the young girls.

    However, sadly, I bet economics will win since the Police spend more time figuring out what type of ramen to order rather than trying to figure out where the bad guys are lurking ;)

  4. #29
    Regular Member deborah gormley's Avatar
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    very true moyashi,, sad state of affairs all round.
    Debs

  5. #30
    Regular Member moyashi's Avatar
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    hmmm ... thought of something else.

    Girls need to be taught that they should date guys in their own age group. My students being 16-18 think 33 is quite reasonable. Happy for me but sadens me anyway.

  6. #31
    Decommissioned ex-admin thomas's Avatar
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    These guys have the cash. Isn't that the issue? Saddening, I agree.

  7. #32
    Regular Member moyashi's Avatar
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    Cash, experience, cars, and free time and balls to go after the girls.

    The sad thing is that most of these sick jiji's when at home get nagged by their daughters for having smelly feet and are good for nothing beyond giving out allowances.

  8. #33
    Regular Member Olivia's Avatar
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    seems to me that at this age, most girls don't conceive relationship as a way for exchanging feelings/emotions, but for making money, so unless men are extremely 'jijis', they consider it reasonable to date them.

    so, it is not a one way relationship: while men are seeking for pleasure, physical satisfaction, 'ne-chans' can satisfy their wishes (necessity?) of being trendy... no strings attached

    pretty sad...

  9. #34
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    "Schools only threaten girls if they prostitute themselves to men by warning, 'it could be dangerous,' 'you might be infected with diseases,' and 'you might get pregnant.' However, they fail to teach them why teen-age prostitution is wrong," he said.

    I think the situation is not going to change because Japan doesn't have the same "Judeo-christian" value system as most Westerners. Sex has always been more free in East Asia, especially in Japan. In such a male-oriented society, there is little chance that teenage prostitution should be viewed as more "immoral" in the future. Parents and teachers can't tell the girls why it's wrong because they don't know either. The male parents or teachers might well take advantage of this system and who knows what mothers did before to be married to buy their LV bags (or even after). This concept of immorality is a recent import to Japan. Japanese understand its wrong because of diseases or pregnancy risks. They can't see a moral issue in it as they haven't been raised in fear of a allmighty god that could punish them for not following a puritan moral. That's also why prostitution is so developped in East Asia (China used to be the worst before communism and it's already becoming a new Thailand as the countries relaxes its zero-tolerance policies).

    "Parents should tell children why prostitution is bad. Parents and children should discuss equality between men and women and women's role at home and work, for example. Then, children will learn to understand that Internet dating sites and teen-age prostitution are immoral," he said.

    Come on. I have never heard of equality between sexes in Japan. That's also an imported concept. In my wife's family, I couldn't cook and do the washing (up) if we were to follow her mother or grandmother's guidance. The wife must do the housework. There is a clear separation between male and female tasks. Her mother would get angry if I started doing the washing after a meal together. She would scold my wife for not preparing my breakfast if she sees me doing it myself. Even like this they are supposed to be quite "modern" and "open". Even my wife who has lived abroad agrees with such a mentality. I feel ill at ease with it, as for me there is no social differences between men and women.

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  10. #35
    Regular Member moyashi's Avatar
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    lol ... Maciamo complains about not being able to do house chores. I complain about doing too many.

    @ immorality
    I'm concerned about this issue because of the consequences rather than the imidiate satisfaction that is found by both parties involved. (too bad there wasn't a market for men ...)

    Imagine what will happen after these girls mature and have children of their own.

    just great ...

  11. #36
    Regular Member Olivia's Avatar
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    @ maciamo comments on his wife
    that's pretty interesting, because my mother, who was also born in Japan and has lived abroad (Europe and now, Brazil), has the same opinion on housework as your wife!... she thinks she has to do the laundry and cook meals for everybody, all the time, and so does she expect the same from me too. sometimes i wonder if she's doing too much, but that's probably due to the cultural difference.

  12. #37
    Regular Member Olivia's Avatar
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    @ immorality
    yes, i agree with you, moyashi. it is about a long term issue not a short term one (like you mentioned, "the immediate satisfaction"), but the problem is that they (the japanese) don't even have a clue about it. and that is the worst thing, because this prostitution will continue to go on and on and nobody will consider it immoral or will take an action in order to break this cycle (vicious circle)...

  13. #38
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    @long term issue
    I also agree. I believe that is due to the Japanese world view or way of thinking. It's the same for the economy ; as long as they can buy their usual stuff and keep their job, they don't worry too much or don't really try to change the disfunctioning system. Japanese can't project the future or think about remote consequences of their acts. Their principle is : "the longest you can live exploiting the current situation, the best (even if it has dreary consequences later)".

    The worst case scenario for Japan in 10 or 20 years would be : a majority of the people with AIDS as nobody cared, tested, respected the basic safety precautions, then the total collapse of the economy as debts are growing higher every year to maintain the situation fairly stable (until it breaks). Japanese won't make a revolution by themselves.

    There has been 2 big social, legal, economic and political revolution in Japanese history. The first was the Meiji Restoration prompted by the arrival of comodore Perry and the pressure of Western countries to open Japan for trade (and fears of being colonised). The second was in 1945 with the American occupation and imposition of a new constitution. When will the next revolution come (because it is badly needed, even if it's not apparent when you walk in the streets). The question is, where will it come from ? Japanese people are too obediant and law-abiding to do anything without foreign support or catastrophic situation. If a major earthquake hits Tokyo, then things could change, but let's hope it doesn't happen this way.

    PS : By the way, I recommend the reading of "Dogs & Demons : the fall of modern Japan", by Alex Kerr, to anybody interested in the problems that Japan faces now and in the future.
    A Japanese version is also available.
    Last edited by Maciamo; Sep 28, 2002 at 10:30.

  14. #39
    Decommissioned ex-admin thomas's Avatar
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    Their principle is: "the longest you can live exploiting the current situation, the best (even if it has dreary consequences later.
    That sounds like the worst example of pragmatism and indifference I've ever heard of. It seems that there is little respect for future generations in Japan. With old traditions and social structures crumbling I'm wondering if younger people will adopt more responsibility and common sense.

    I've just ordered Kerr's book through Amazon yesterday.

  15. #40
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    With old traditions and social structures crumbling I'm wondering if younger people will adopt more responsibility and common sense.
    I can only speak for my personal experience here, but I see very well that my wife would do anything to please her grandmother (do her shopping whenever she call to give her order, etc.), but the grandmother doesn't care at all about her. When my wife first went to study in London, she called her grandmother to say she felt homesick and wanted to go back home (that was before we met ), but she would just tell her "no way, you wanted to go now you stay !", when she just wanted to hear tender words. When we went to live in Japan, the grandmother didn't give a **** of where she had been, what she had done, etc. We had travelled a lot, but the grandmother never asked a question, looked at the pictures or showed the slightest interest. The only thing she sees in her granddaughter is a kind of de facto servant. But when I ask my wife how she can bear to be treated like this, she replies that I shouldn't criticise her grandmother because justly that's her grandmother and because she has worked hard all her life and had to be respected and cared for accordingly.

    It doesn't surprised me at all that older generations don't care about younger ones. As you say so well, Thomas, it's extremely selfish and indifferent from them. The trouble is that the people with power in Japan are the elderly. All CEO's and higher government officials and politicians are at least 50 years old, but more often near 70. That's why nothing is going to change till they have died. They are not caring about the future of Japan. As long as they stay rich using and abusing of the current system, they'll be happy, whoever has to pay the consequences later (anyway, they won't be there to see it).

    Note that young Japanese are kind of weak compared to the over 50. I guess it's normal, you are tougher if you've experienced the hardship of war and reconstruction than if you were born with a kitty-chan in your craddle and had it on your school bag later.

  16. #41
    Decommissioned ex-admin thomas's Avatar
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    You are right Maciamo, it's probably a matter of age, as the war generation in Europe had/has its interpersonal deficiencies as well. Still, I found my grandparents as well as other people in their age group nothing else but caring and sacrificing because of the war-related hardship they had to experience.

    All of what has been stated in this thread is so diametrically different from the image we have of Japan in the West. Harmony, politeness and respect for others. Sheesh, just take my wife's company, a Japanese semi-governmental dinosaur, no names given. I've never seen such a concentration of incompetence, ruthlessness, perfidy, exploitation and selfishness. The hierarchies are ridiculous and only depend on seniority. The top brass view the company as personal property and behave like Roman governors (with a similar justification as your wife's grandmother: 'Since we have served our company for 30 years, we are entitled to respect and "benefits"!'). Headquarter tolerates it, because it seems to be the system. So the CEO's wife uses the company CC to shop etc, while at the same time employees' salaries are cut, "because of the economic situtation". Harmony is inexistent, motivation at rockbottom.

    I apologise for the strong words, but they really don't give a **** for others! It hurts to see such an attitude.

  17. #42
    Regular Member moyashi's Avatar
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    @ Senority system.

    Something that probably won't change easily. It's hard to oust power mongrels that slurp up company funds and do squat for work. But that is their right since they busted *** for 20+ years so this is a kind of payoff for them that most workers take for granted. Although, with many loosing their jobs this remains to be seen how much longer this will last.

    @ grandmother
    I've seen more grandmothers that are more activie than mothers. Maciamo, I think you're wife's situation was probably from the start opposed too. In a sense, I bet, she cut her relations with your wife (en wo kiru) then when she came back (I'm guessing here) she brought a gaijin husband that put the virtual nail in the coffin. She might come around once you have children. (I hope that I didn't make a mistake about your information, I'm guessing alot here.)

    @ cultural revolution

    But it's happening right now. It's hard to see something when you're living through it but I pretty sure we're going through such a social change right now.

    proverb.
    Grandfather works and makes money. The father spends and squanders all. The grandson is left poor.

    The timimg is about right since the Post war generation busted *** to get what they have. While the Baby boom generation is busy creating debt and loans to live their Bubble economy life styles. My generation is left with the affect of no jobs, brand appeal and 75 year house loans to payoff.

  18. #43
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    @ grandmother
    I've seen more grandmothers that are more activie than mothers. Maciamo, I think you're wife's situation was probably from the start opposed too. In a sense, I bet, she cut her relations with your wife (en wo kiru) then when she came back (I'm guessing here) she brought a gaijin husband that put the virtual nail in the coffin. She might come around once you have children. (I hope that I didn't make a mistake about your information, I'm guessing alot here.)
    Well, that was a wrong guess. The realtionship between my wife and her grandmother has always been like that (not since we are together). She told me it was even worse when she was a child. She didn't cut her relationship with my wife as we see each other everyday (me and the grandmother too !). The marriage hasn't been opposed but rather pushed by the grandmother as a condition to live together (kind of old-fashioned mentality that even my grandparents wouldn't think about nowadays). So, she is naturally authoritarian and sadist. My wife accepts her situation as normal because of the seniority system.

    You've maybe noticed that Japan has this almost stereotypical image of the bullying grandmother (even in manga, with a nasty and vicious way of laughing, but it's so true). The interesting thing to see in my family-in-law is that the grandma actually care a lot about her daughter (couldn't probably live without her), but not her granddaughter. Usually it's the opposite in Western countries (grandparents are kinder with their grandchildren).

    But it's happening right now. It's hard to see something when you're living through it but I pretty sure we're going through such a social change right now.
    Of course, but it's still going to take 40 years before today's youth reach the top of the society (in economics or politics). I really wonder what it will look like...

    proverb.
    Grandfather works and makes money. The father spends and squanders all. The grandson is left poor.
    Yeah, but the grandfather is about 40-50 years old today. Today's youth is squandering the money and their children will be in trouble in a few decades.
    Last edited by Maciamo; Sep 30, 2002 at 12:27.

  19. #44
    Regular Member moyashi's Avatar
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    Sorry, about guessing wrongly.
    hmm, move to Hokkaido and skip all that tight_assed (pardon my language) Honshu mentality.

    @ future
    Hmm, bleach blond hair polliticians wearing $100 suits, $300 monthly cellular phone bills, and driving cars that their parents bought for them.

    @ 40-50
    According to my older students that age group are the baby boomers. My father-in-law is 60 and that puts him post war baby like my parents.

    Youth are busy supporting NTT/Docomo's adventure in Europe ;)

  20. #45
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    "I agree with Thomas, it's the business men who went to SE Asia on sex trips that brought a lot of this back to Japan. The men catch it, spread it to their girl friends and wives who spread it to their boyfriends."

    They also spread it to the girls they pick up for enjo kosai.

    As for the idea that there is no guilt or shame involved, what a bunch of crap. It's possible they feel no guilt. This isn't a guilt society. But it IS a shame society, and they are well aware of what other people will think of them.

    They don't tell the other kids at school. They'd be horrified if their parents found out. They might admit it to their close friends, especially if they all want the same LV gear. Personally I find the whole idea repulsive, that a teenager (and remember how at that age 25 seemed old) can have sex with a man old enough to be her grandfather, and why? to get a bag. Have they lost their minds? The idea that this might be their total sexual experience is even more horrible. What a way to warp your sexual future.

  21. #46
    Regular Member moyashi's Avatar
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    @enjeeo
    Welcome and yoroshiku

    @ enjo kosai
    hmmm ... what can you do though?

  22. #47
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by moyashi
    @enjeeo
    Welcome and yoroshiku

    @ enjo kosai
    hmmm ... what can you do though?
    It has just dawned on me that enjeeo and enjo (kosai) were very similar (especially if you consider that "eo" is the way Korean write the Japanese sound "o"). Did you choose your nickname because of enjeeo kosai ?

  23. #48
    Banned ghettocities's Avatar
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    you know what the problem is? it's the guys needing to pay for sex, notice ** america has never had such a problem and i don't know any american girls (and i know quite a bit, heh...) who would give one of those infamous "sensual massage (shigeki na massage)" to a salaryman for a half hour to buy a designer handbag. it's pure stupidity and weakness, poverty and the influences of polite slurping.

    so be safe, wear a condom! prostitution is illegal in japan, no the age of sexual consent is not twelve, and there is even laws against the whole enjo kosai (aid) even without sex, yet if your a foreigner chances are if you buy a girl lunch one day you'll more than likely get a little something something in return, but remember, as much as japan (tokyo) can seem like a dream it can easily turn into a nightmare, be safe, i made a mistake while i was over there earlier this year being with a girl and returned home with a urinarytract infection, couldnt pee normal for a week, the doctors drew blood to make sure thats all i had and after i had been tested negative for everything except the uti i had to take cipro the same antibiotic they give to people who had anthrax, and thats exactly what "my piece" felt like at the time, so be safe, wear condoms.

    p.s. if you don't believe tokyo to have such a crazy nightlife i'm shortly posting clips on my site from the dvd we filmed last/start of this year.

    Josh / Ghettocities
    Returning to Japan in a few days! fun stuff,
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  24. #49
    Regular Member deborah gormley's Avatar
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    I must agree with all points made by enjeeo and ghetoocities, sex is a dangerous passtime especially when visiting any country and decideing to engage in the act of sex without knowledge of a partners previous history, but with out this knowledge people still engage in this for fun/kicks/security ect, without so much as a thought of the after effects,
    Josh you where very honest and truthfull about your previous experience in Japan, and its the truth that needs to be told, to wake people up to the dangers of sex when its not with a longtime partner, Josh you have my admiration
    @enjeeo,,, I feel exactly the same way, its a sad way of life,but its a known fact that this is takeing place not just in Japan, some people are just that insecure with there own life that to get money out of someone else's seems to give them a power that they would not usually poccess and how they spend this money ie; handbags,drugs,clothes, food,passport to the stars(hehe) seems to give them some kind of inner power that can only be felt and appreciated by the person (who sells themselves)involved, to us this is totally unrealalistic and this is the reason we cant understand their reasoning

  25. #50
    Hullu RockLee's Avatar
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    In Thailand u got this scene also going on.I still don't know how people could do such a thing just to get money for their expensive bags...don't they know if u got a (aru)baito u can earn money too
    ~ Parempi hullu kuin tylsä - Better crazy than boring ~
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