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Thread: Radical difference between East and West regarding relationships and marriage

  1. #126
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    I have read this thread with great interest, there were many things I was aware of which the thread has confirmed.
    Would it not be better to say that the Japanese have tried to copy the western idea
    of meeting a partner and fulling in love, yet as love has not been part of relationships in the past the Japanese partner still uses the same selection process when deciding to marry and calling it love.
    The Japanese person in the relationship still expects the same things in the marriage as if they were married to a Japanese, problems only appear when the western partner feels un-loved by their Japanese partner and then asks questions.
    Only to find that the reasons the Japanese partner gives for marrying the foreigner is based more on the persons ability to be a good provider or mother than a lover.
    So it could be said that the Japanese have changed from arranged marriages to personal selection marriages and then labelling it as a love marriage.

  2. #127
    The Enemy geesehoward4life's Avatar
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    Thanks for the Info

    Thanks for the information. This entire forum has been one of the most frank and honest ones that I have seen or visited! Thanks!

  3. #128
    Regular Member ippolito's Avatar
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    japanese women

    What I think that th us influence after the II world war had been heavy in Japan, I saw Tokyo and it was similar to many u.s. modern
    towns...a lot of technology and eve for the sports baseball basket
    golf....as i am black belt in karate I tried to find some old Japan
    aspects....i think i was in the wrong city perhaps in Kyoto or Nara
    it would be different.
    About women there is one thing that is heavly differents than the western, it is very difficolt to understand what a japanese woman is thinking, behind a smile a gentless who knows what she thinks?
    this my simple opinion and my short experience there

    bye

  4. #129
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    I found this thread very fascinating. My fiance is Japanese and we have had a few differences on marriage, but we actually have discussed them. What was especially important to me was not to be seen as just a mother after we have children. I want us to be a couple like we are now. I know that every relationship changes to some degree, but a loveless, non-intimate marriage is certainly not something to look forward to. We have talked about this and seem to be on the same page. Yes, sometimes it's still hard for him to be direct with his answers but I can now figure out what his indirect replies really do mean. He does say though that he wants a happy marriage filled with love and laughter...sounds good to me!
    I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it. ~Jack Handey

  5. #130
    Regular Member Gentleman10's Avatar
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    Hmmm, what can I say on this...
    I think what most people of two different cultures often go through these problems. I mean, we have enough differences between our genders in our own countries, so why bother branching out to other cultures where there are ***more*** cultural barriers that we have to cross. Well, if we go back to the foundation of marriage, most of us would find the base of it being (this will sound amazingly corny) love.
    I think the issue between most of these relationships is that we, especially as two different nationalites, forget that expression of love is simply different in other places. The fact that two people have chosen to accept those differences by binding themselves together through marriage shows that the couple is ready to not only enjoy, but perservere the differences and difficulties the relationship will bring. In these cases, though, this also means both couples will be willing to jump cultural barriers to attain the same lv of happiness as a domesticly married couple.
    Please remember this everyone, love is expressed differently all around the world. Although you may not feel loved by your spouse, or you feel as if the gap between you and your spouse is growing, remember your spouse is trying just as hard to keep another person of a different culture satisfied as well.
    So whether it be an "I love you" or a reaffirming いってきます・いってらしゃい, keep in mind that although love is expressed differently, that doesn't mean that there isnt love at all

  6. #131
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    "My impression is that this stereotype works as well for Korea and China, if not also South-East Asia."
    Impression or not, I have to say that Chinese are not really like the Japanese in terms of seeing that there's no more love and the man can go out and satisfy his needs somewhere else after a period of 10 years or more. When it comes to court decision about who continues to care for the children, both parents similar to the west is very willing to care for their children even after divorce. Chinese value family values a lot, much like the Italian just like some of the dishes involved boiling soups and making sauces that is similar between Chinese and Italian.
    One similiarity is that children also sleep between their parents or near them.
    By the way, I really like your post, it's informative and easy to follow. Keep it up. I know sometimes people respond to post that may make people like or dislike, but everything I say is based on my personal experiences and observations and in hope that others can share and believe in the same views as I am. This is my very first post as well, if anything is not really done well, please don't hesitate to point out. For example, I still haven't figured out how to use the quotation function yet for posting the post. Hope anyone who knows can help me, any suggestions will be appreciated.
    Cheers

  7. #132
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    Honestly, I don't know a whole lot about the love relationships in Japan, except that the whole staying at home thing is kind of tradition. Although I don't know what it's like nowadays, it's not all about the money.
    My grandmother (who I've brought up a lot in the few posts I made) came over here a little after WW2 with my grandfather who was a war medic. He didn't have a lot of money, but she still fell in love with him, got married, and moved to the US

  8. #133
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    Personally, I think the most important aspect in a relationship is communication, without it it is almost impossible to be happy, I personally don't care to let my wife decide over everything as long she doesn't make "selfish" and "careless" decision. I don't think sex is very important, but fidelity does as it is impossible to get along if you know that your wife cheats you... But the most important thing is to have children and raise them the best we can. I tend to be interested in older and more mature women, because they are less selfish, less superficial and seem to show more compassion. I am 20 yr old and I really wouldn't bother me to marry a women that is 5-10 years older than me.

  9. #134
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    This thread is absurd. The original author should do some actual research into the matter before posting his biased and unfounded opinions. This is just another example of some white guy learning a few words of Japanese, watching some anime, marrying a Japanese woman, and thereby becoming self-proclaimed a expert on all of Japanese culture.
    Okay, the above statement is absurd too. I don't know anything about the author -- but, the above statement makes a good example. I observed a little tiny bit of the author and immediately made a sweeping judgment about him. This is exactly what the author is doing to the entirety of Japanese views on marriage and love.
    I apologize for the excess negativity. It just seems to be that this 'article' is riddled with bias, cultural interpretation and judgment. It carries the typical western motif of 'look at what all those silly little Japanese are doing'. If you're going to post an article such as this, maybe it would be beneficial to just post the facts and leave your interpretation and judgment for the ensuing discussion.
    Anyway, sorry for the rant. If it rubs you the wrong way, please excuse my sarcasm.

  10. #135
    Regular Member Taiko666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srm View Post
    This thread is absurd.
    So a thread that has provoked lively and interesting discussion for 4 years is absurd? Are all the people who've contributed to this thread also absurd?

    Quote Originally Posted by srm View Post
    This is just another example of some white guy....
    I think you're exhibiting racist tendencies here.

    Quote Originally Posted by srm View Post
    ... learning a few words of Japanese, watching some anime, marrying a Japanese woman, and thereby becoming self-proclaimed a expert on all of Japanese culture.
    I'm surprised you're putting 'marrying a Japanese woman' in the same category of experience as 'watching some anime'.

    And stating one's observations or interpretations is not the same as claiming to be a 'self-proclaimed a expert on all of Japanese culture.'

    Quote Originally Posted by srm View Post
    I observed a little tiny bit of the author and immediately made a sweeping judgment about him. This is exactly what the author is doing to the entirety of Japanese views on marriage and love.
    Your frank admission totally invalidates your opinion of the original poster.

    Quote Originally Posted by srm View Post
    It just seems to be that this 'article' is riddled with bias, cultural interpretation and judgment.
    Granted, the OP made a couple of sarcastic comments (eg 'grope') But do you think cultural interpretation is a bad thing?

    If you totally disagree with the OP, why not raise some counterpoints instead of just shooting him down?

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by srm View Post
    The original author should do some actual research into the matter before posting his biased and unfounded opinions. This is just another example of some white guy learning a few words of Japanese, watching some anime, marrying a Japanese woman, and thereby becoming self-proclaimed a expert on all of Japanese culture. ...
    I observed a little tiny bit of the author and immediately made a sweeping judgment about him. This is exactly what the author is doing to the entirety of Japanese views on marriage and love. ...
    It just seems to be that this 'article' is riddled with bias, cultural interpretation and judgment. It carries the typical western motif of 'look at what all those silly little Japanese are doing'.
    First, I'll give you some advice. LURK MOAR.

    Before making a sudden, rapacious post like this (especially since it is your first), I'd suggest you take a look at the rest of Maciamo's threads.

    Now, not everyone agrees with him, me included, but I do have a lot of respect for him. He's lived in Japan, married to a Japanese woman, and has been exposed to everything positive and negative about Japanese culture. You didn't just go make a sweeping generalization about him, you put your foot so deep into your mouth it's incredible.

    Maciamo is well informed and can back up every opinion he has with facts. Now, yes, he does focus on the negative, and he is most definitely a "glass is half empty" sort of person in regards to Japanese culture. However, he is most certainly not some kid who's watched some anime and taken a course or two. He's got first-hand experience regarding this subject.

    Then again, considering how many people I've seen making posts like this and never popping up again, I seriously doubt this will make a big difference.
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  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerain View Post
    Personally, I think the most important aspect in a relationship is communication,
    This says it all.

    I'm married to a Japanese, and we don't speak each other's language perfectly, but we try very hard. Our kid is bilingual, too, without us really trying.

    Anyway, communication is key. I read a book about intercultural relationships before we got married. It covered more than just Japanese people with other nationalities. Lots of documented research. It all boiled down to communication.

    If you don't understand what is expected of each other before you tie the knot, expect problems later. How serious those problems are will depend on you and your situation. That is...

    1) are you the husband or wife in a male-dominated society?
    2) which one works?
    3) do you live in the husband's or wife's home country (where the language barrier may hit one of you), or do you live in a totally different country (where you may be forced to deal with everything together)?
    4) what are your cultural/religious expectations of raising a family?

    A simple list, only 4 items, but they pretty much seemed to encompass so many of the situations that the book went through with REAL examples of people married to other nationalities. VERY enlightening.

    One more thing is certain: you cannot expect to change your spouse, not 100% anyway. Each person is going to have to give a little in order to get along, not just communicate.

  13. #138
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    I learned a lot about Japanese relationships. Sadly at the time I don't know any Japanese men so I probably won't need it but hey who knows. I still found it very interesting so thanks for sharing. It's always useful sooner or later in life to learn and understand another culture.

  14. #139
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    im not very familiar with either of these information, i never have complaining of neighbours in the Philippines (japanese area) or Asian people in Belgium (antwerp).

    Not everyone is the same i have saw women who likes smoking but hate drinking, and also in the opposite way.

    Japanese women are quickly offended while western women are a bit lazy.
    but then again at night (xxx) the asian women is a small animal and the western is (sometimes) like a bag of flour

    if somebody doesn't share my opinion please don't shoot me
    (this is my opinion and i hope everyone respects it like i do with your opinions)
    (in my eyes western females are hardworking and asian females not but western female are after a time boring while asian females always find something to keep you amused not just sex but im speaking in generally)
    i didn't said this counts for all asian and western females! i only write down as the way i see it with my own eyes

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodEmperorLeto View Post
    First, I'll give you some advice. LURK MOAR.
    Before making a sudden, rapacious post like this (especially since it is your first), I'd suggest you take a look at the rest of Maciamo's threads.
    Now, not everyone agrees with him, me included, but I do have a lot of respect for him. He's lived in Japan, married to a Japanese woman, and has been exposed to everything positive and negative about Japanese culture. You didn't just go make a sweeping generalization about him, you put your foot so deep into your mouth it's incredible.
    Maciamo is well informed and can back up every opinion he has with facts. Now, yes, he does focus on the negative, and he is most definitely a "glass is half empty" sort of person in regards to Japanese culture. However, he is most certainly not some kid who's watched some anime and taken a course or two. He's got first-hand experience regarding this subject.
    Then again, considering how many people I've seen making posts like this and never popping up again, I seriously doubt this will make a big difference.
    As I said in my original post -- admittedly I was being sarcastic and judgmental. I even went so far as to state that my 'opinion' of the poster was entirely sudden and unwarranted. This thread is linked to sites as some sort of authoritative summary of what a Japanese marriage is all about. That's what ticked me off more than anything. No one is going to read through 4 years of postings to realize the authors statements are only an interpretation of Japanese culture and not necessarily a valid summary of it. I apologize if my posting was personally insulting to the original author. If I was to request one thing from the author, that would have been that he would have been slightly more clear about what was his personal opinion and what is generally accepted by Japanese as true.
    Frankly, I think Japanese culture is misrepresented and abused by western societies, who rather than try to understand that what they're experiencing is an entirely different culture, interpret their experiences in terms of their own norms. That, to me, is absurd, albeit a completely normal thing to do. A lot of the statements made by the original author, I felt had the air of being cultural judgments rather than truly accurate descriptions of the cultural phenomena he had witnessed.
    I think, in general, especially with Japan, there is a tendency for cultural descriptions to be heavily laden with the spectators cultural bias. Seriously, go to an english website and search for anything related to Japan. You have to dredge through mounds and mounds of total garbage before getting to anything remotely accurate. How is anyone who is not intimately experienced with Japanese culture to discern between opinion, bias, fact and fiction? That is my angst.
    Prior to my original posting, I spent hours searching for english language information on Japan for a friend of mine. I was sort of appalled by what I found, which is precisely what lead to my posting. I'm ashamed for my rudeness, but please accept my statements as opinions not necessarily any more or less valid than original author.

  16. #141
    Veni, vidi... vicodin? GodEmperorLeto's Avatar
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    SRM--

    Firstly, I'll applaud you for continuing to post here. All to often people post once or twice in inflammatory or controversial manners and then vanish. My opinion of you just shot up.

    Quote Originally Posted by srm View Post
    I apologize if my posting was personally insulting to the original author.
    Believe me, he's probably used to it by now. That is, if he still posts at all.

    That, to me, is absurd, albeit a completely normal thing to do. A lot of the statements made by the original author, I felt had the air of being cultural judgments rather than truly accurate descriptions of the cultural phenomena he had witnessed.
    Okay. However, I must admonish you with one piece of advice... go to Japan and experience it for yourself. Now, I'll be honest, I've never been there myself. I have plenty of friends who have, and I know plenty of Japanese people through my job. That doesn't equate with having been there myself, but until I graduate, it's the best I can do.

    Anyway, no culture is perfect. They are human institutions, thus they are flawed. Nevertheless, some are better or more productive than others in certain areas. Japanese society works if you've been raised in it and are comfortable being a cog in a machine. The same mentality exists in Western cultures, but not to the vast extent. Thus, I know a number of Japanese people who want to live and work in the West because they feel more free to express themselves than back home.

    I'm prattling on. So I'll cut it short. In regards to love and marriage, Maciamo has a lot of good points. The truth is usually something very hard to swallow, and I'm going to take it as it is. This doesn't mean that I think Japanese wives are better or worse than Western ones. People need to be taken on an individual basis. Personally, I don't think Westerners marry for love anymore, they marry for lust, money, or because they think the other person will make them happy (i.e. not for altruistic reasons) which is why the divorce rate is very high. So, in that regard, the Japanese are more honest with themselves and with each other (at least, generally speaking) than Westerners.

    So, who is better? In my opinion, neither. But cultural trends and mentalities exists on a broad level, and it is up to the individual to overcome them or adopt them as they see fit.

    Prior to my original posting, I spent hours searching for english language information on Japan for a friend of mine. I was sort of appalled by what I found, which is precisely what lead to my posting. I'm ashamed for my rudeness, but please accept my statements as opinions not necessarily any more or less valid than original author.
    Nah. I'm sorry if I came off very hard on you. When you explain yourself this way, I can understand where you are coming from better.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodEmperorLeto View Post
    Okay. However, I must admonish you with one piece of advice... go to Japan and experience it for yourself. Now, I'll be honest, I've never been there myself. I have plenty of friends who have, and I know plenty of Japanese people through my job. That doesn't equate with having been there myself, but until I graduate, it's the best I can do.
    Actually, I've been living there for years now.. I'm visiting some family back in the US at the moment.. which is why I was prowling through the web looking for information to begin with. ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by GodEmperorLeto View Post
    Anyway, no culture is perfect. They are human institutions, thus they are flawed. Nevertheless, some are better or more productive than others in certain areas. Japanese society works if you've been raised in it and are comfortable being a cog in a machine. The same mentality exists in Western cultures, but not to the vast extent. Thus, I know a number of Japanese people who want to live and work in the West because they feel more free to express themselves than back home.
    About culture.. this is true. But, I think culture really, to a greater or lesser degree is more like a lens through which you view the world rather than something tangible. It's only somewhat visible in a tangible sense when you're an outsider in a different culture. But, the thing is, these tangibles really aren't culture itself, but rather the result of it. Typically, these big in your face type things/differences become the focus of stereotypes and misunderstandings about a particular culture rather than true representations of it. I guess what I'm saying is, when it comes down to it, real culture is a way of thinking and viewing the world, not something that can be experienced in a physical sense.
    I think the whole 'cog in the machine' thing is a bit of a stereotype. Its really a matter of group mentality verses individualism. In my experience, westerners tend to be more individualistic and focused on their personal goals, whereas Japanese workplace is more focused on group identity and group goals. There are good and bad aspects to both sides of the picture. In either case, it's not true that a typical Japanese person has no personal identity and/or always behaves strictly in line with his/her particular group.
    Anyway.. I'm babbling now too, and am going off on a tangent, so... thanks for the response and your understanding of my position!

  18. #143
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    omg this topic is like a nightmare. I think Japanese women are very cute and certainly wouldn't mind being married to one....but...I don't want to stop having sex after having kids. And I don't want my wife to feel like she has to quit work after getting married either.

    I definitely want to have children myself, but love comes first for me.

  19. #144
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    I find the original article so full of generalisations and stereotypes that it comes close to racism. I have been married to a japanese woman for 9 years now and know many japanese couples. Frankly I can not recognize much of what was written from my personal experiences. Trying to describe Japan as contrary to the west usually does not do Japan justice. I would think that it is about time to re-write the article.
    There are good and bad people everywhere

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Chan View Post
    I find the original article so full of generalisations and stereotypes that it comes close to racism. I have been married to a japanese woman for 9 years now and know many japanese couples. Frankly I can not recognize much of what was written from my personal experiences. Trying to describe Japan as contrary to the west usually does not do Japan justice. I would think that it is about time to re-write the article.
    Maybe the article is not about Western-Japanese couples, but Western-Western and Japanese-Japanese couples ?

    I thought it was interesting. I like this sort of analysis because there are stereotyped generalizations. There are always exceptions everywhere. How would you re-write the article based on your knowledge ? That's something I am looking forward to read. It is easy to criticise but difficult to write such an article yourself. I couldn't.

  21. #146
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    Hmmm...when I was in Japan I stayed with a family. Living in their house. A mother with three kids and her swimming team coach husband. She worked, after having three kids she still worked. I guess you'd have to to support three kids.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharingan View Post
    Maybe the article is not about Western-Japanese couples, but Western-Western and Japanese-Japanese couples ?
    I thought it was interesting. I like this sort of analysis because there are stereotyped generalizations. There are always exceptions everywhere. How would you re-write the article based on your knowledge ? That's something I am looking forward to read. It is easy to criticise but difficult to write such an article yourself. I couldn't.
    OK you challenged me!

    Below you will find the article with my comments with large fond.

    First of all: The writer is a westener who had a short marriage to a japanese woman. So obviously not more expert in japanese-japanese marriages, than myself.

    After you have seen my comments you understand why I find that the whole article should be replaced with one describing "Marriage life in Japan".

    (Not so) Radical difference between East and West regarding relationships and marriage
    ________________________________________

    It's not the first topic on the subject, but I'll try to summarize what I've learned in all my discussions (most of them with Japanese people in real life). I've also talked with some Korean friends and it seems Korean and Japanese mentality about the followings are very similar. (Not true! Actually Japanese and Korean culture and family structure are quite different – however lately the changes in youth culture are even faster than in Japan. One example: the birth rate have plummeted to an even lower level than in Japan during the last few years) (It also appears that Western way of thinking, whatever the country, from Europe to America to Australia is basically the same on these issues. (Not true! Actually Americans are getting far more children than Europeans. Within Europe there are big differences between Catholic and Protestant communities) Here it is. (This section should be deleted).

    Reason for marriage

    West : Love => people promise to love each other for ever when they get married (even if it's often a dream). Modern laws make it the same to get children outside marriage, so that if people only want children, marriage is not even necessary. Marriage is usually a proof of love and comitment for life. If love disappears, people tend to divorce easily (Not true! Actually in Catholic communities like in Ireland divorce is not easy) (except sometimes when there are small children, to avoid perturbing them psychologically).

    Japan : Children => with or without love is not very important. Lots of marriage are still arranged ("miai") (Not true! Since the late 60’ies love marriages more common than miai. By 1998 less than 10% of marriages in Japan were arranged. http://web-japan.org/trends98/honbun/ntj980729.html) and some Japanese think that it's better than love marriage because loveless arranged marriage rarely end up in divorce as the purpose is to have and raise children, and for the woman often to quit working and care about the household. (Actually 22.2% of the workforce in Japan today are working mothers. http://www.iht.com/articles/1992/06/22/womj.php
    Now 26.3% of the brides are pregnant when they get married. http://unpan1.un.org/intradoc/groups...NPAN016635.pdf )

    Japanese men often look down on women at work, but are usually ready to ask them to stay at home and pay for their expenses, even if their salary is tight. As the father of a child born outside marriage is not legally recognised, the marriage rate of parents is close to 100%. (It is fair to suggest that most couples are in love when they get married and often the marriage is prompted by pregnancy).

    Japanese family relationships

    Even in love marriages, once a woman has a baby, her husband regards her as a mother, not a woman anymore, which means their sexual life comes to an end. (A survey shoved that married Japanese in average have sex 17 times a year. Around one third of the interviewed answered that they had not had sex for more than a year. This is a sizable minority but the majority do continue having sex http://whatjapanthinks.com/2006/08/2...s-part-1-of-3/ ). The new mother is said to lose completely interest in her husband anyway (This is certainly true in some cases – both in Japan and the west, but most women continue to show affection towards their husband) (this may not be true in international couples, from what I've heard).

    In most families, children sleep with both parents or just the mother. The the latter case, the father has his own room. I've been told that this way he wouldn't wake his wife and children up when he comes back late from work.

    Sleeping with the child(ren) in the middle of the parents is so common in Japan that Japanese and a special name for it, a comparison it to the kanji 川 (kawa = river). Children might sleep with their parents till age 3, 5, 8, 12 or even 16, depending on the family, number of children and space in the house. (Though this practice seems common, it certainly do not hinder the adults having sex when the children are not around or when booking into a love hotel).

    Western reaction to children sleeping with parents

    Westerners find for the least surprising that children sleep everyday with their parents (especially till age 12 or later !). They should not forget that on top of this it is normal in Japan for a father to have a bath with his children, even 20 year-old girls ! I guess that if the average Japanese man loses interest in his wife once she becomes a mother, there is no problem with children either.

    I've heard a lot that Westerners would be afraid of crushing their new-born baby by sleeping in the same bed, but I was told that it never happened (of all mamals, only male sealions and pandas sometime crush their babies to death when sleeping with them, but never humans would it seem). The good point of the mother sleeping with the baby is that the baby doesn't cry because it feels secure near its mother and has a unexhaustable warm-milk bottle at its disposal. I've read that it was better for babies to be breastfed than drink other milk. That system definitely has its advantages.

    Another concern is that the parents lose their privacy and can't have sex anymore - unless doing it in front of the child, which is a kind of taboo in the Judeo-Christian mindset. As Japanese parents stop having sex regularily after their children are born, that isn't a problem.

    For international couples who do continue, I was told little babies can sleep very well even with the parents doing whatever they please right beside them. But they should have their own room from age 3 or 4 then.

    Finally, lots of Westerners think it might cause psychological problems to the children to sleep with their parents. But Japanese do it and seem to be alright with it. The only drawback I can think of is the independence factor. Japanese are very group-minded and usually have difficulty thinking by themselves. (The group-mindedness of Japanese is a stereotype, and claiming that they have difficulty thinking by themselves, is outright nonsense). It may be related.

    Why do Japanese women stop working when they get married or pregnant ?

    1) It's in the culture like that. They usually want to. Most Westerners think they are forced to quit, but they often resigned from their own will (or from what society has inculcated them). Japanese men also prefer that their wife stay at home once married. (This might be true for women living in traditional communities, but many urban women want to continue working). Women almost always want to spend as much time as they can with their babies (remember J-girls like what is "kawaii" ? The connection is evident).
    2) Nursery schools are few and very expensive in Japan (I've heard about 200.000 yen/month). It make more sense for the mother to stay at home than work and pay almost all her salary for the nursery. In most Western countries, nurseries and kindergartens are free, which allows lots of mothers to work. (True).
    3) Paternity leaves don't exist in Japan, (About 0.5% of male company workers take paternity leave. http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/381128 ) and (paid) maternity leave are not encouraged.


    Japanese relation to sex

    There is a kind a tacit understanding between spouse that after 10 years of marriage (loveless anyway) and a few children, the man is free to satisfy his libido somewhere else. That is why the sex industry is so prosperous in Japan.

    Male literature in combini is 90% porn and everyone (Not everyone! Most find this behaviour bad) reads it openly (and shamelessly) anywhere. Even serios newspapers have their pink pages. This is just beyound belief for Westerners first visiting Japan.

    Japanese men who miss talking to young and cute girls (or not so young and not so cute, depending on the price and place) go to hostess bars or "snack" after work. Nothing much happens there except dirty talk. Those who want to go more carnal have the soaplands and massage parlours, but Asian men's testosterone level is reputedly lower than Caucasian or African men, so they are often satisfied with just talking, watching - and groping...

    There is also the infamous "enjo kosai" or teenage prostitution. I'd like to say that for lots of Japanese (or East Asian) women, this isn't even considered as prostitution. Many find it normal to have sex with a man that pays them whatever they want. Remember that marriage is not much more than a man giving almosy all his salary to a woman to make children and take care of them. It suely sounds utterly shocking to lots of you, but after talking to (female) Japanese and other Asian friends I know quite well, they don't even see it as abnormal. It's in the mores, that's all. That doesn't mean Japanese women cheat more, but lots of them certainly consider money as more important than love or sex (which I find very saddening).

    Behind this, I've realised that cuteness (the kawaii factor) iss very powerful in Japanese women's mentality. They like babies, cute anime characters and cute clothes more than anything else, it seems. Men have an obsessive care about their job and status. My impression is that this stereotype works as well for Korea and China, if not also South-East Asia.


    Divorce and charge of the children

    In 95% of cases in Japan, the woman gets the exclusive charge of the children. It only seems natural as the father often don't really care about them. He comes back late from work and rarely take part in their education. After a divorce, it's not normal for the father to just forget about his offsprings. He doesn't care very much. That's the mother's role to care for them.

    That might sound crude again to some Westerners, as in the West parents sometimes fight bitterly over the charge of their children, and in peaceful cases, it's usual to find arrangement such as the children stay one week with the mother, next week with the father, or, weekdays at the mother's and weekends at the father's. Anyway, lots of father would feel terrible not to see their children regularily. (see the thread about children abduction on this regard).

  23. #148
    Just me Glenski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Chan View Post
    Japan : Children => with or without love is not very important. Lots of marriage are still arranged ("miai") (Not true! Since the late 60’ies love marriages more common than miai. By 1998 less than 10% of marriages in Japan were arranged. http://web-japan.org/trends98/honbun/ntj980729.html)
    You are confusing number ("lots of") with percentages. There is a difference. I find this very amusing because... well, look below how you used it in just the opposite way.


    and some Japanese think that it's better than love marriage because loveless arranged marriage rarely end up in divorce as the purpose is to have and raise children, and for the woman often to quit working and care about the household. (Actually 22.2% of the workforce in Japan today are working mothers. http://www.iht.com/articles/1992/06/22/womj.php
    Now 26.3% of the brides are pregnant when they get married. http://unpan1.un.org/intradoc/groups...NPAN016635.pdf )
    Now you are saying that 22% is a significantly large amount, when above you talk about 10% being insignificant. Is this evidence of a smoke and mirrors approach to statistics, or are you just naive about how to use numbers?

    I'm not even going to get into your other "statistics". They are just as faulty.

  24. #149
    Regular Member Han Chan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenski View Post
    You are confusing number ("lots of") with percentages. There is a difference. I find this very amusing because... well, look below how you used it in just the opposite way.
    Now you are saying that 22% is a significantly large amount, when above you talk about 10% being insignificant. Is this evidence of a smoke and mirrors approach to statistics, or are you just naive about how to use numbers?
    I'm not even going to get into your other "statistics". They are just as faulty.
    Really! When less than ten percent do somthing you can not say "lots of" and base your whole article on that minority as if was the majority.

    When 50% of the population are women, and 22% of the whole workforce are working mothers, it indicates that it have become quite normal for mothers to work!

    This is not so difficult to understand, unless you simply want to misunderstand or enjoy hairsplitting!

  25. #150
    Fear my Niftyness MadamePapillon's Avatar
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    (A survey shoved that married Japanese in average have sex 17 times a year. Around one third of the interviewed answered that they had not had sex for more than a year. This is a sizable minority but the majority do continue having sex
    I don't know why you bothered to write this then because you basically proved the other guys point. One third goes without sex while the rest is getting it about 1% of the time.


    woman often to quit working and care about the household. (Actually 22.2% of the workforce in Japan today are working mothers. http://www.iht.com/articles/1992/06/22/womj.php
    This one is tricky because there's 'work' and then there's WORK, if you get my meaning. Are they doing meaningless stuff like pouring tea, filing papers, being a gopher, or are they actually working as a valuable member of the team.
    All Hail to the HYPNOTOAD *clap* *clap* *clap*

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