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Thread: Is this true?

  1. #1
    TAN Hiroyuki Nagashima's Avatar
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    Is this true?

    The Chinese armed forces shot a pilgrim of Tibet dead indiscriminately.

    http://www.protv.ro/stiri/internatio...-pilgrims.html

  2. #2
    Back leonmarino's Avatar
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    That's pretty sick to say the least. I have no other words at the moment.

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    japႎ vagyok undrentide's Avatar
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    It seems to be true, I wish it weren't...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6045566.stm
    http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...cle1813596.ece

    Searching with Google by "Tibetan refugees shot by Chinese" results in many hits (almost 420,000 hits by Japanese version of Google).
    *I love undrentide by Mediaeval Baebes*
    And here're my bloggies (JP) & (HU)

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    http://app.hkatvnews.com/content/200...ews_95571.html
    “dŽ‹‘䔏“ž¼åUlš¤偷“n“ž“ò”‘Ž¢”íŽËŽ€
    2006-10-15



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    ‰eŽtÝ‹ãŒŽŽO\“ú‘ãCŠÅŒ©ˆê”ᐼåUlÝ¼åU粋«“I ”T‘͝fŽRŒûCŒü“ò”‘Ž¢•ûŒü‘–‹ŽC“Ë‘R—Ll’†‘„æé’nB• ŒxŒã˜Ò›æ‘–ˆê±lB

    V‰ØŽÐ“ú‘Oˆøq¼åUŽ©Ž¡™½•‰ÓlŽwCác“ú—L‹ßŽµ\l偷“ n‹Ž“ò”‘Ž¢CŠúŠÔ—LlP擊粖hlˆõC‘¼˜ìŽ©‰qŠÒ擊C偷“n‹q ˆêŽ€ˆêB

    http://www5.chinesenewsnet.com/MainN...02_41_273.html

    ========
    most of the traditional chinese papers(HK/TW e.g.) stated its a group of smuggler, and there was a possible conflict between them and border guards.

    and also the line between smugglers and refugees has been blurred, well, it all depends which side u take...
    also if u did a search on google about borders guards/police shoot smugglers.. I guess u will find something interesting.. After all, Bush did call for extra troops on the Mexican borders..

    and also I don't think this thread has anything to do with J-C Bilateral relations

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    TAN Hiroyuki Nagashima's Avatar
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    Why was this thread moved here?
    What I wanted to know,
    Now this news becomes a topic in a Japanese net.
    However, it is not reported with television and a newspaper,
    The reason is because it felt doubt in Japanese journalist.

    It is general common sense in Japan that China is an inhumane nation.

  6. #6
    Danshaku Elizabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiroyuki Nagashima View Post
    Why was this thread moved here?
    What I wanted to know,
    Now this news becomes a topic in a Japanese net.
    However, it is not reported with television and a newspaper,
    The reason is because it felt doubt in Japanese journalist.
    It is general common sense in Japan that China is an inhumane nation.
    Yeah, there are still thousands of mass public executions carried out in China every year. I challenge anyone to argue it is anything other than an inhumane nation.

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    Regular Member Supervin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
    I challenge anyone to argue it is anything other than an inhumane nation.
    It's a humane nation, but it has an inhumane government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiroyuki Nagashima View Post
    Why was this thread moved here?
    I moved it here because it seemed to be more about China and its government dealing with its own people rather than China and Japan dealing with each other. Sorry for the confusion.

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    Danshaku Elizabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supervin View Post
    It's a humane nation, but it has an inhumane government.
    I won't argue with the notion of a humane nation since the phrase seems pretty meaningless apart from its government. Although of course ultimately government practices, I'm sure especially in a that a country with the levels of repression and violence that occur in China and have over so much of its history, have a great deal of influence on the values, social climate, norms of behavior etc of the ordinary masses.

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    Regular Member Supervin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
    I won't argue with the notion of a humane nation since the phrase seems pretty meaningless apart from its government. Although of course ultimately government practices, I'm sure especially in a that a country with the levels of repression and violence that occur in China and have over so much of its history, have a great deal of influence on the values, social climate, norms of behavior etc of the ordinary masses.
    Instead of hypothesizing, if you've traveled to (mainland) China and met the people there, you'd see that their values and behavioral norms are in a stark contrast to those of the government and their officials.

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    Regular Member pharaoh21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supervin View Post
    Instead of hypothesizing, if you've traveled to (mainland) China and met the people there, you'd see that their values and behavioral norms are in a stark contrast to those of the government and their officials.
    What do you mean by values and behavioural norms? Which part of China are you referring to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
    I'm sure especially in a that a country with the levels of repression and violence that occur in China and have over so much of its history
    Every countries have their own violent history in the past. Only after WW 2 when humans start to think that wars and violence are not good. Besides, you don't even know much of China's history, this means right from the ancient times.

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    Danshaku Elizabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharaoh21 View Post
    What do you mean by values and behavioural norms? Which part of China are you referring to?
    Every countries have their own violent history in the past. Only after WW 2 when humans start to think that wars and violence are not good. Besides, you don't even know much of China's history, this means right from the ancient times.
    In response to the point of this thread, I was referring to Chinese mass execution rallies (filling sports stadiums, public squares etc to witness and cheer on execution style killings). I understand some spectators are forced to attend but from the brief footage I've seen it was shocking how many genuinely appeared to be enjoying themselves-- more visibly than I could imagine clapping or yelling their support for the barbarism in modern, civilized societies like the US and Japan. Of course I'm not saying Chinese are violence prone as a general statement, it was simply an observation from my brief exposure. Perhaps I should have been more circumscribed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post

    I was referring to Chinese mass execution rallies (filling sports stadiums, public squares etc to witness and cheer on execution style killings). I understand some spectators are forced to attend but from the brief footage I've seen.


    I think you're referring to newsreel clips on China's upheaval years during Cultural Revolution,I've seen same footage as well in some American TV news history flashbacks and programs.

    I typically have no interest in discussing PRC and CCP.

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    Danshaku Elizabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricecake View Post
    I think you're referring to newsreel clips on China's upheaval years during Cultural Revolution,I've seen same footage as well in some American TV news history flashbacks and programs.
    I typically have no interest in discussing PRC and CCP.
    This was a very reputable news broadcast on current economic and social trends with the reporter as disbelieving as his audience. It most definately wasn't the Cultural Revolution although I've heard that a very recent trend is for large-scale public spectacle executions to become less prominent as they are not as economical as lethal injections, especially administered onsite in a mobile van unit type set up.

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    Regular Member pharaoh21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
    In response to the point of this thread, I was referring to Chinese mass execution rallies (filling sports stadiums, public squares etc to witness and cheer on execution style killings). I understand some spectators are forced to attend but from the brief footage I've seen it was shocking how many genuinely appeared to be enjoying themselves-- more visibly than I could imagine clapping or yelling their support for the barbarism in modern, civilized societies like the US and Japan. Of course I'm not saying Chinese are violence prone as a general statement, it was simply an observation from my brief exposure. Perhaps I should have been more circumscribed.
    Ok, let's clear the misunderstandings then. So when did you see the footage? How old was the footage? I like to see it myself also.

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    TAN Hiroyuki Nagashima's Avatar
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    (Attention:It is a brutal photograph.)
    http://www.ogrish.com/archives/femal...v_30_2004.html

    http://www.peacehall.com/news/gb/chi...12130343.shtml
    This news became a topic in a Japanese net, too.
    However, it is not broadcasted in the general mass media.

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    Regular Member pharaoh21's Avatar
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    ^No need to give a warning sign. I've seen many brutal photos around the net before. Those 2 links are nothing compared with the Nazis and the Japanese Imperial Army. One of the most brutal photos i saw was a Japanese soldier cutting off the head of an Australian POW with a Japanese sword. Actually, what the American soldiers were doing to the Abu Ghraib prisoners was quite brutal too.

    However, this has nothing to do with the topic and so are your photos, so let's get back on the topic which is about Tibetians not executions, ok Hiro?

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    TAN Hiroyuki Nagashima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharaoh21 View Post
    ^No need to give a warning sign. I've seen many brutal photos around the net before. Those 2 links are nothing compared with the Nazis and the Japanese Imperial Army. One of the most brutal photos i saw was a Japanese soldier cutting off the head of an Australian POW with a Japanese sword. Actually, what the American soldiers were doing to the Abu Ghraib prisoners was quite brutal too.
    However, this has nothing to do with the topic and so are your photos, so let's get back on the topic which is about Tibetians not executions, ok Hiro?
    Japan and Australia studied World War II jointly.
    http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/AJRP/AJRP2.ns...2?OpenDocument
    New Guinea of 1943,
    There is a document about execution of Sergeant Leonard G. Siffleet.
    Japan does not conceal it about an atrocity of the Japanese armed forces in World War II.

  19. #19
    Regular Member pharaoh21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiroyuki Nagashima View Post
    Japan and Australia studied World War II jointly.
    http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/AJRP/AJRP2.ns...2?OpenDocument
    New Guinea of 1943,
    There is a document about execution of Sergeant Leonard G. Siffleet.
    Japan does not conceal it about an atrocity of the Japanese armed forces in World War II.
    I didn't say anything about Japan concealing atrocities. I was only expressing my view of what 'brutal' photos are supposed to be like and that's why I also mentioned the Nazis and the Americans. It seems to me that Japanese are extremely sensitive, as sensitive as all east Asians.
    So, Hiro, what does your links got to do with the topic of your very own thread (which yourself is hijacking)?
    Last edited by pharaoh21; Oct 30, 2006 at 15:38.

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    Back leonmarino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharaoh21 View Post
    This is also the first time for me seeing a thread starter hijacking his own thread. This thread is really a joke itself.
    What are you saying? Some of us just genuinely expressed our concerns about the issue in the original post. Someone else started posting about WWII and comparing footage posted (fulfulling a request) with war atrocities.

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    Regular Member pharaoh21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonmarino View Post
    What are you saying? Some of us just genuinely expressed our concerns about the issue in the original post. Someone else started posting about WWII and comparing footage posted (fulfulling a request) with war atrocities.
    I'm saying we should all be concerning about the Tibetians - those who got shot down by the PLA, not wasting our time on different subjects on Japan and WW2, or the Cultural Revolution, or the mass public executions since as you said before,there're already threads about WW2 etc.
    This thread is a joke because the thread starter is hijacking it with lots of links which are unrelated to the topic itself.
    By the way, according to the no. of members replying, it seems to me that there're only few who cares about it not some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pharaoh21 View Post
    This thread is a joke because the thread starter is hijacking it with lots of links which are unrelated to the topic itself.
    You call it hijacking, some might call it misscommunication.
    Quote Originally Posted by pharaoh21 View Post
    By the way, according to the no. of members replying, it seems to me that there're only few who cares about it not some.
    That's sad indeed.

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    Danshaku Elizabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharaoh21 View Post
    I'm saying we should all be concerning about the Tibetians - those who got shot down by the PLA, not wasting our time on different subjects on Japan and WW2, or the Cultural Revolution, or the mass public executions since as you said before,there're already threads about WW2 etc.
    This thread is a joke because the thread starter is hijacking it with lots of links which are unrelated to the topic itself.
    You are the one who initially requested footage specifically on the mass execution I referred to seeing recently on television. Firstly, these practices are thoroughly documented so it is unclear what aspect was so unbelievable ; secondly it could be considered further 'hijacking,' although I wouldn't phrase it as a "waste of time" or completely unrelated which does come off as insensitive. Of course we should all be as interested and concerned about human rights abuses in Tibet as anywhere in China or the entire world for that matter.
    Last edited by Elizabeth; Oct 31, 2006 at 07:08.

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