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View Poll Results: Are Chinese more favourable towards Americans or Japanese?

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Thread: Are Chinese more favourable towards Americans or Japanese?

  1. #26
    Banned ricecake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timey

    i'll be doomed if i'd ever been such an ignorant.

    some people had all their family members slaughtered back then.who TF has a right to tell them to forget it and move on ? definitely not me,cos iIhappened to know some of them.
    Their outcries didn't fall on deaf ears,that's WHY there is not yet a " closure " chapter to WW 2 in the Far East.
    Last edited by ricecake; Jul 24, 2006 at 15:50.

  2. #27
    Banned ricecake's Avatar
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    Japanese culture is shame-driven NOT guilt-driven as for Chinese and Koreans plus Western people.you can run into a break wall with Japanese when try to explain the meaning of " consciousness " as they have close to zero seemingly.

  3. #28
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    iwumuyi thank you for your thoughtful post, I would like to make a couple of comments in reply.......

    Japanese should have a proper attitude and action for their war past and Chinese is ought to stop any blind and extreme anti-Japan activities, both nations should put dialogues and communication on the priority
    Japan did apologize, but only on official papers, not from the bottom of the heart, and thats why untill now,
    I agree with this, however how many times does a person or in this case a country need to apologize for people to believe them? I have heard the Emperor, and any number of prime ministers apologize as well, how many more times will it take before people accept them.

    We are reluctant to live in the war-time memories, and we are ready to communicate, ready to extended friendship to our Japanese neighbors, but please remember that its the Japanese, especially the right-wing politicians who first "pour salt on the wound" , and awake Chinese that the two countries used to be enemies.
    Your feelings are understandable, and it always seems that it is the politicians that are the "problem" in any and all disputes, misunderstandings and conflicts like this.

    Talking as an "average" person I feel that people, not the politicians, in both countries probably could, can and do get along without any problems other the the "usual" cultural differences. Yet even culturally Japan and China are closer than Japan and the US that's for sure. It would be beneficial for the two to have closer and more meaningful ties for the future of Asia and the world.

    Question here I asked this in an earlier post and ricecake wrote this in reply first the question and then ricecakes reply.

    For Japanese and Chinese I think some of these hatred's go back much farther than just since WWII.

    ricecakes reply to that was;
    This is absolutely NOT TRUE,China's issue with Japan mainly circle around WW 2.
    Would you agree that all the hatred stems only from WWII or do the wounds go much further back than that?

    Yes I am American and I understand your point as well about 9/11, yet in someplaces in the world I am pretty sure memorials will be eventually made, the only difference between a terrorist and a revolutionist is the side you are on.

    Heck I am pretty sure that the British probably thought that the colonists were terrorists during America's War of Independence.

    Once again for your thoughtful and honest reply, I am glad that I was able to understand you and what you had to say, I have learned something today and that makes it a great day for me. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinions. Have a good day!

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricecake
    Japanese culture is shame-driven NOT guilt-driven as for Chinese and Koreans plus Western people.you can run into a break wall with Japanese when try to explain the meaning of " consciousness " as they have close to zero seemingly.
    You are Chinese right? Excuse me my mistake you are American right? How can you make blanket statements about a country and people that are not "yours".

    All you are doing is speculating and making generalizations which defeat the points in your posts.

  5. #30
    Westernised Chinaman lu_bu1977's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hachiro
    ...All you are doing is speculating and making generalizations which defeat the points in your posts.
    ricecake does that by referring to past and recent history. It has more referential proof than your own rather verbose and perpetual romanticisation of all things Japanese in these forums.

    Sir, having a Japanese wife neither makes you an expert in Sino-Japan relationships, nor endows you with an exceptional and flawless insight into the Japanese psyche, I am afraid.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by lu_bu1977
    ricecake does that by referring to past and recent history. It has more referential proof than your own rather verbose and perpetual romanticisation of all things Japanese in these forums.

    Sir, having a Japanese wife neither makes you an expert in Sino-Japan relationships, nor endows you with an exceptional and flawless insight into the Japanese psyche, I am afraid.
    You sir should take a look at what I wrote and you will see that I never claimed anything that you are assuming here.

    I agree that having a Japanese wife means nothing, except that I have a Japanese wife. I also happen to live here and have been for 20 years, that may not count much to you but it does give me a better insight in to things about daily life over a tourist or sometime traveller here. Before you start assuming things you might be better served by finding out who you are talking to first.

    I've travelled a bit in my life and have seen a lot of people in many different countries and one thing that I noticed through my experience is that the "average" people just about everywhere are just that "average" which means that they are pretty much kind and decent and outwardly do not show signs or actions of such hatred that gets tossed around so easily in this part of the world. I like to think of myself as an optimist.

    BUT and here is a huge but, you are making assumptions about what I do or do not know about Japan it's history, and btw the way my wife loves me because I am romantic.

  7. #32
    Banned ricecake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lu_bu1977

    ricecake does that by referring to past and recent history. It has more referential proof than your own rather verbose and perpetual romanticisation of all things Japanese in these forums.

    Someone smartly echoed my thoughts
    Last edited by ricecake; Jul 25, 2006 at 03:49.

  8. #33
    Hullu RockLee's Avatar
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    @Iwumuji : There is a quote tag you know

    Ontopic: I think we should end this, don't you think? This is starting to become a "China vs Japan"-thread.
    ~ Parempi hullu kuin tylsä - Better crazy than boring ~
    http://www.fin-style.be/blog -> My Blog about Finland and other random thingies.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricecake
    * side note ... I suspect you work for a Japanese newspaper,with responsiblility propagate anti-Chinese sentiments in cyberspace.You're one of several dedicated Japanese trolls working tirelessly in both Japanese and Chinese internet forums.
    And you are here to propagate anti-Japanese sentiments here?
    You sure like to label people: trolls, Japs, fake Chinese, Chinese-wannabes, etc.

  10. #35
    tsuyaku o tsukete kudasai nurizeko's Avatar
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    I agree Ricecake, if your intention is to merely convey your stone like stubborn less then justifiable opinion of Japanese, you have succeeded and we no lnoger require your input in this thread to remind us of your feelings, you have exhausted any value your input has to this discussion, mainly because you dont have any.
    When you feel you can make more objective contributions then feel welcome.
    I agree with Hachiro, his posts have been informative and he hasnt claimed the position of Japanese nationalist.
    He has merely brought up the VERY good question that is, why can some people hate another people for little justification?.
    He puts forth that if you must hate, it should be placed on people you have personal experience of.
    You may hate Koizumi, but you cannot make sweeping statements that you can somehow hate all Japanese, especially if you've never met a single one.
    He also brings up the point that in WW2 America and Japan were enemies, America media frequently referred to the Japanese and "Japs & Nips" and often spouted off the kind of language that we now only attribute to neo-nazi's and terrorists.
    It is 60 years after, most involved are dead, and Hachiro explains that here we have an America, witness, as he explains his marriage, his LOVE for a woman of Japanese nationality.
    His point is that if China can hate Japan for WW2 then so can America and the allies, yet here we have a situation of peace between the allies and Japan, and westerners marrying and loving Japanese, living and working there, having children there or with our Japanese partners, this is hardly what one would call hating an old enemy.
    Japan is no longer your enemy, I think Hachiro is trying to say, and that, perhaps you can forget a pointless hatred, and even better, get to know Japanese people.
    I dispise China's communist regime, because its not communist and it isnt fair, people still dissappear, but I dont hate the Chinese, China, and tis culture, just because of the regime, which is seperate.
    Japans wartime regime doesnt even exist, 60 years dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocklee
    Ontopic: I think we should end this, don't you think? This is starting to become a "China vs Japan"-thread.
    I concur, we must teach people that if they are seeking arguments and flame-wars, they must look elsewhere.

  11. #36
    tsuyaku o tsukete kudasai nurizeko's Avatar
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    My wife is Japanese, my children are "half" Japanese "half" American, they are living reminders of the atrocities that Japan caused upon my family....yeah right I think not.
    This is the best sentence in your reply, Hachiro, My grandfather and grandmother fled germany because of the war, lost relatives.

    Japan was Britains enemy, yet here we are, 60 years after the fact, having no memory of any atrocity commited against me, dating a Japanese lady.

    If the situation was more convenient we would have probably married already or at least be engaged.

    Britons, Americans, hell, even some Chinese have married Japanese people and learned to see Japan as a nation of human beings instead of an old enemy long defeated, and the criminals of the war long dead.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by nurizeko

    (1)especially if you've never met a single one.

    (2)Japans wartime regime doesnt even exist, 60 years dead.
    (1) Excuse me ! .... you sure made a blanket statement here.I personally befriended a seemingly nice Japanese foreign exchanged female student Noriko Aoki some years ago.I once had a summer part-time job at a local print shop owned by Japanese woman named Hitomi with former American GI husband.I've embraced Japanese culture much of my life.I regular a local Japanese supermarket Mitsuwa,where one can meet shoppers of Japanese national.I've read many translated Japanese novels through out my adult years,oppose to none for you.

    (2) .... A local San Jose Mercury News ( California ) in the 1990's blatantly accused one Japanese owned company's advertisement with a photo of blind-folded whiteman perceivingly " thumb at " whitemen's ignorancy as subtle racist attack.Many today's Japanese political families whose grandfathers were participants of Japan Empire,PM Koizumi's family has directly blooded their hands in assassination and illegal activities.Today's Japan we see is superficial at best with same old underlying schemes.

    Bedded one or two Japanese *****(s) doesn't qualify anyone taking Japan's side on behalf of Japanese males.
    Last edited by ricecake; Jul 31, 2006 at 17:42.

  13. #38
    Regular House Cat michi's Avatar
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    From my experience, mainland Chinese usually have negative feelings for the Japanese and don't really care about Americans.

  14. #39
    tsuyaku o tsukete kudasai nurizeko's Avatar
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    Personally I dont think Chinese think much of either culture.

    Out of any culture they choose their own (the one they tried to destroy in a maoist idiocy project).

    Still, Chinese culture is nice so, cant blame them.

    At the momment I reckon they'd choose American culture...just out of spite of Japan really.

  15. #40
    "Nani ga okashin desu?!" CBC Guy's Avatar
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    I'd reckon most Chinese would say they like the USA more than they like Japan, but mainly out of spite for Japan.

    Even in HK, where people are less nationalistic than here on the Mainland, people still talk of the 日本仔, (little Japanese) but that's not real hatred, just awe at how Japan is so different and "weird." I am in Mainland China right now and many students profess to dislike Japan but I don't sense any crazy hatred like Japan thinks China has right now.


    As for the USA, the consensus in China is that Bush is an idiot, that Rumsfeld is a sabre-rattler looking for war, but that American culture is interesting and sometimes useful. Americans are seen as fun-loving individualists.

    On a personal level, however, I don't think many Chinese care very much about either Japan or the US. They just try to live their own lives. Some of them do like certain aspects of Japanese culture.
    'Watashi no Nihongo wa son-na ni heta desu ka?!?!"

  16. #41
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    A lot of people on this threat talks about forget and move on and what have you. The reality is that those who forget the lessions of the past are destine to repeat those mistakes in the future. It is indeed wise to remember the past however horrible it may have been. It is also prudent to teach the children about the past so they may avoid the mistakes of their parents. The point here is never forget.

  17. #42
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    The day Chinese care about the US they won't be chinese anymore. As Austrian I played chess and admired the Russians, I played GO, Wetschi or name it... The moment Chinese, Japanese or Russians really start to care about the USA and their "way" we should all worry. And as european I honestly do not want to be affiliated to the so called western world, which is at least mediatically US dominated. I got more in common with an orhtodox russian then with a US citizen. The US suck hard, maybe less then others but well, they suck...

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by changedonrequest View Post
    Are there many Chinese members posting here on JRef?

    I come from China .Joining this forum on 18th,May 2007
    lena

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwumuyi View Post
    Yes, both the two cultures are admirable, but think of the war atrocities committed by japanese and the general attitude towards the past war in ja-society, who dare say chinese are loving japan?
    actually, most people here like japan, not a militarily and politically ambitious japan, but a peace-loving, tolerant japan.
    welcome to my blog at http://wumuyi.spaces.msn.com (blogging the ups and downs of China )
    Yes,you r rught.Especially NanJing massacre ,every chinese don't forget this ignominy.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by changedonrequest View Post
    Why in the heck can't people learn to look to the future instead of constantly living in the past? Does it make you "feel" better as a person to blame an event that happened probably before you were born to justify your hate today?

    Question here to our Japanese and Chinese members;

    To our Chinese members;

    Do you actually KNOW any Japanese people? AND if you do Are they decent or "nice"? OR Are they animal's to be despised and if so WHY do you despise them, because of something they did to you personally or because of something you were taught or told from a history book or teacher?


    I personally lost relatives, my Dad's brother's among others during the Pacific War in WWII, that doesn't mean I HATE all Japanese because of an event that happened BEFORE I was born.

    My wife is Japanese, my children are "half" Japanese "half" American, they are living reminders of the atrocities that Japan caused upon my family....yeah right I think not.

    To those Chinese members and Japanese members out there that are over 60 years old, because the "rest" HAVE NO ACTUAL MEMORY OF ANY ATROCITIES, I ask do you hate the Japanese people so much even today?

    OR have you learned that to carry such a hate does nothing but cause you heartburn.

    I ASK ALL OF YOU JAPANESE AND CHINESE>>>>"WHERE DOES YOUR HATE COME FROM?" Please explain to me how you can hate a country and it's people for something that YOU are not directly concerned with.?!?!
    Yes ,we can't constantly live in the past .Everyone wish have peace life .I have ever watched a film which show the Japanese take chinaese as their test object by using organism-chemical weapon .I don't know whether it is real.But I also have a question why don't they show some other countries(American ,Germany ,UK and so on).As I myself ,I am angery the past ,not live in the past .Only i wish is there will have no war any longer

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwumuyi View Post
    Dear Hachiro San
    I would like to talk to you sincerely and objectively as a global citizen ,not only a Chinese, for fear that we Chinese are probably misundertood as radical nationalists on Japan-related issues. Well, I can assure you that most of time, we are reasonabled.
    To your post:
    yet in Chinese history MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of people were sacrificed from the hands of the CHINESE people against CHINESE
    Yes, neither country is without fault, and I am sorry to say that in the Chinese history there was a time of dog-eat-dog, and things like purge in cultural revolution. that is the past, but we should demand something back, we expect justice and apology. As for the war past, Japan did apologize, but only on official papers, not from the bottom of the heart, and thats why untill now, some right-wing academia deny the facticity of Nanking Massacre, and thats why the prime minister Koizumi enshrined the Yasukuni, and thats
    why....You are a American, right? with all due respect. will Americans allow the Al-Qaida to commemorate and enshrine the hijackers on flight 93, no, definitely, The US are at war with Japan for only 4 to 5 years, while Chinese were flighting for 13 years (followed 9.18 incident in 1931 )and in Nanking(then capital of ROC) alone, 200-300 millions lives were taken. please just put yourself in our shoes and think why Chinese cannot tolerant of Koizumi's visit.
    ....Don't you thing it is time to let history be history?.... Why in the heck can't people learn to look to the future instead of constantly living in the past?
    We are reluctant to live in the war-time memories, and we are ready to communicate, ready to extended friendship to our Japanese neighbors, but please remember that its the Japanese, especially the right-wing politicians who first "pour salt on the wound" , and awake Chinese that the two countries used to be enemies.
    Do you actually KNOW any Japanese people? AND if you do Are they
    decent or "nice"? OR Are they animal's to be despised and if so WHY do you
    despise them, because of something they did to you personally or
    because of something you were taught or told from a history book or teacher?

    I have constant e-mail exchanges with some penpals from Japan, and I have Japanese students there in campus. I do marvel at Japanese for their politeness and orderliness , but I cannot respect Japan as a great nation like Germany, please tell me what great if a nation is ashamed of facing its past histories.The politicians is one things, and the people is Japan is another things, we are born to be educated to believe that most Japanese are peace-loving, and different from those ring-wing politicians. Chinese are not as so anti-japan as you might have thought. Just see how well we cheated the Japanese war prisoners after Japan's surrender, and how we help the Japanese immigrants' evacuation. ordinary Chinese, they didn't know what
    Geneva Conventions are all about, they just helped enemies truly as human being and believed that those enemies were also the victims of militarism. We were kindhearted but are hurt half century later. yes I have to mention the incident occured last year about the anti-japan demonstrations, that was a peaceful march, neither student have done anything destructive, later investigation indicated that those who demaged japan-related infrastructure were so called "hooligans" who did so to justify their hate today. Anyway, I am sorry and feel ashamed for their improper behavior.
    We should have solutions, and my suggestion is that:
    Japanese should have a proper attitude and action for their war past and Chinese is ought to stop any blind and extreme anti-Japan activities, both nations should put dialogues and communication on the priority.

    well done !your speech is so bright

  22. #47
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    It is hard to say. There are still many Chinese who are angry at Japan because of history. At the same time, there are forward-looking Chinese who puts Japan and history behind them and wonder about the future and how to co-exist with America.

  23. #48
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    Thumbs up

    I think there is a lack of communication between Japan and China. For most Chinese people, they don't know anyone from Japan. Their only impression about their neighbour is such as the brutal but stupid military officer with a little moustache in movies about the WW2 (made-in-China). Not like USA, though it's much further away, modern Japan remains mysterious to most of ordinary Chinese (sorry, but maybe except the Japanese porno films to the young Chinese).
    And the main reason that Chinese knows more about and thus are more favourable towards Americans is the POWER of USA. Its effects are everywhere. We learn English, listen to VOA, watch Hollywood movies, Friends etc. We don't know more about Peru than Japan, frankly.
    So Chinese and Japanese people need more communication so that we can live together better.

  24. #49
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    Unless the Communist Party changes its policy and starts allowing freedom in the media, direct, personal interaction between the peoples of the two countries is the only hope.

    But, even at this level, those who were educated in the mainland tend to be close-minded. So, change in education might be key.

  25. #50
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    If you remember the thread about Japanese and the rest of Asia, it's not only Chinese who need to stop being close-minded, in a friendship it takes two, at least. There's enough brainwashing in many countries against some other countries. Even Chinese media stopped calling America "Imperialist" but China is often called "Communist", even if a report has nothing to do with politics. Are American media objective towards China or Russia?
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