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Thread: Negative, postive or informative ?

  1. #1
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Question Negative, postive or informative ?

    Some people have criticised me for being too negative in my comments about Japan. I rather disagree with that. I see my contributions as fairly balanced, being neither a Japanophile nor a Japanophobe, but someone with a love-hate relationship with Japan.

    I counted the threads I have started about Japan (i.e. not about the forum administration or in the Member Lounge) on the forum. Here are the numbers by category :

    All Things Japanese : 29 threads
    Culture Shock : 37 threads
    History & Traditions : 26
    Religion in Japan : 5
    Literature & Arts : 6
    Japanese Food & Recipes : 6
    Personal Stories : 0

    Japanese News & Hot Topics (15 subforums) : 192

    Japan Practical (3 subforums) : 21

    Entertainment (10 subforums) : 11

    Japan on the Web : 8

    Nihongo Forum (10 subforums) : 28

    TOTAL : 368 threads


    The last person to criticise me for being too negative is Hachiro today. In my reply to him, I pointed out that most of my threads were positive, neutral or informative (stats, news...), and that the truely critical or negative threads were mostly confined to the Culture Shock (obvisouly, otherwise it wouldn't be called that), History and Politics section (because 20th-century Japanese history on its repurcusion on contemporary politics is no rose garden, and this is completely independent from my good-will or behaviour).

    Otherwise, on the whole, I think I have contributed in starting more positive and informative topics than almost anyone on the forum, except maybe Thomas (and that was mostly in the early days of the forum).

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  2. #2
    Banned Mike Cash's Avatar
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    If in your lifetime you eat 1000 McDonald's hamburgers and in that 1000 there is 1 bad one, it is human nature to recall the 1 and forget the 999.

  3. #3
    gunjin Carlson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cash
    If in your lifetime you eat 1000 McDonald's hamburgers and in that 1000 there is 1 bad one, it is human nature to recall the 1 and forget the 999.

    lol that applys to everything in life. mainly with what someone does. but your talking to the guy who at work ate a hotdog that has been setting in the warm fridge opened in it own juices for a month without atleast puting it in the microwave. now keep in mind a friend ate one with me and in 24 hours we both ended up with something close to food poision. Now the normal person would stop there but me i went for a second 1. you know had to make sure it was the hotdog....

    it was.

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  4. #4
    Five times to Japan. ArmandV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlson
    Now the normal person would stop there but me i went for a second 1. you know had to make sure it was the hotdog....
    it was.

    I hope you learned your lesson or bought yourself your own stomach pump to keep handy at home.

    Armand's Rancho del Cielo

  5. #5
    Resident Realist nice gaijin's Avatar
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    Maciamo, I've read many (perhaps all) of the threads and posts you've made, at least over the last year. Without revisiting any of them, I have to say that the overall impression I have of your opinion of Japan is that you are bitter about subtle forms of condescension and ethnocentrism that you construed as racism while you were there.

    You haven't created any threads in the personal stories forum, but my first thought after reading some of the threads you started was that you had a low opinion of the Japanese, and perhaps had some very bad experiences that factored into not only your opinions about them, but your decision to leave the country as well. None of this might actually be true, but this is just the impression that I got after reading your posts.

    I won't deny that I've found many of your threads very interesting and informative, just that on the whole they ring a little bit sour.

  6. #6
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nice gaijin
    Maciamo, I've read many (perhaps all) of the threads and posts you've made, at least over the last year. Without revisiting any of them, I have to say that the overall impression I have of your opinion of Japan is that you are bitter about subtle forms of condescension and ethnocentrism that you construed as racism while you were there.
    Did you get that from my thread about skyscrapers or the one about Shintoism ? I think you remember mostly the threads in the Culture Shock section. Just go to Avanced Search, and search for the threads I started outside "Culture Shock". It might be a shock for you to discover that so many of my posts aren't bitter at all...

  7. #7
    Resident Realist nice gaijin's Avatar
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    Oh I didn't mean to imply that all of your threads have a negative slant to them, just that the ones that stick out most readily in my mind are the numerous ones that did. Like Mike said, even if the good experience (or positive-sounding posts) outweigh the bad (or negative), it's usually the latter that is most easily remembered.

  8. #8
    Danshaku Elizabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nice gaijin
    Oh I didn't mean to imply that all of your threads have a negative slant to them, just that the ones that stick out most readily in my mind are the numerous ones that did. Like Mike said, even if the good experience (or positive-sounding posts) outweigh the bad (or negative), it's usually the latter that is most easily remembered.
    If you are talking about just the last year I think the trend towards greater negativity and disparagement you are sometimes criticized for has been increasing in amplitude for a while....or perhaps that was when Culture Shock was added as a subforum. Surely there is room for agreement on both sides in this debate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth
    If you are talking about just the last year I think the trend towards greater negativity and disparagement you are sometimes criticized for has been increasing in amplitude for a while....or perhaps that was when Culture Shock was added as a subforum. Surely there is room for agreement on both sides in this debate.
    I don't go through the archives of this forum to research threads that anyone started. Yet in reply to this I would agree that at one time, Maciamo probably started some threads that were informational and helpful to people here.

    I am talking about the present, or at least from the time I joined this board. If you take a look over at my "join" date you will understand where I am coming from.

  10. #10
    Danshaku Elizabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hachiro
    I don't go through the archives of this forum to research threads that anyone started. Yet in reply to this I would agree that at one time, Maciamo probably started some threads that were informational and helpful to people here.

    I am talking about the present, or at least from the time I joined this board. If you take a look over at my "join" date you will understand where I am coming from.
    Yeah, that was a stipulation of nice gaijin's original post that I was trying to reinforce -- are we talking about recent months or going so far back as when
    threads were created two or three years ago that are now for the "reference" part of this site ?

  11. #11
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth
    If you are talking about just the last year I think the trend towards greater negativity and disparagement you are sometimes criticized for has been increasing in amplitude for a while....or perhaps that was when Culture Shock was added as a subforum. Surely there is room for agreement on both sides in this debate.
    It is true that I have posted more rants in my last year in Japan (progressively less since I left), but I think it only looked more amplified because I created the Culture Shock subforum at that time and moved all my criticism of Japanese society and education system in that subforum. So it's easy to find all the "negative" threads, while the good ones are scattered around all the other subforums.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth
    Yeah, that was a stipulation of nice gaijin's original post that I was trying to reinforce -- are we talking about recent months or going so far back as when
    threads were created two or three years ago that are now for the "reference" part of this site ?
    It does however get tiring of seeing all sorts of posts related to this particular topic, which btw gives the background for this thread in the first place, all dry up and disapear.

    It's kind of a joke, now because the thread has disapeared I am made out to be some kind of "bad" guy by Maciamo. I hope that he feels better now.


    If I didn't know better I would say....and to borrow a (para)phrase from Mike Cash.......

    "He comes across like a stripper, walking off the stage with a g-string loaded with bills, bitching that everyone is looking at her tit's"

    Sorry about that Mike, it was just too great a line to let die in the "archives" of this forum. I loved that line....maybe I should pay you a royalty for borrowing it.

  13. #13
    Horizon Rider Kinsao's Avatar
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    Let your threads speak for themselves, Mac.

    Why should you feel the need to make a thread such as this if you feel in yourself that your contributions are largely positive and informative?

    It seems you care how you come across to people. Well, if so, take care how you come across to people. If you feel that you've done so, there's no need to worry about it. There will always be a small number of people who 'take things the wrong way'.

  14. #14
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsao
    Let your threads speak for themselves, Mac.
    Why should you feel the need to make a thread such as this if you feel in yourself that your contributions are largely positive and informative?
    Because I doubt that a single person (apart from me) has read all my posts, and a majority of forum members haven't read/seen a good deal of my posts, hence a minority among them have criticised me openly for being too negative about Japan. I just want to make things clear.

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    You're a nasty piece of work. Period. Sooner or later Thomas is going to wake up to the fact that you're not just destroying the reputation of this place, but that you've driven away enough active members that you're actually damaging his revenue.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Because I doubt that a single person (apart from me) has read all my posts, and a majority of forum members haven't read/seen a good deal of my posts, hence a minority among them have criticised me openly for being too negative about Japan. I just want to make things clear.
    I am going to jump in on this with both feet. Maciamo you need a reality check. The criticism was justified, and still is justified. You sit back and delete posts and threads that put you in a disparaging light. You did it today. AGAIN. The regular members here either choose to ignore it or choose to ignore it, but NOONE is so blind to not believe that you are not guilty of censoreship in an attempt to keep your "image" clean. DO you realize or even care, how many people have quit posting here because of you?

    Should I start to use your words against you? You know the ones that you deleted out of the posts and threads that YOU made in attacking others and then twisted around to say that because you are not a "native" English speaker that you should be given leeway?

    Look at one time you may have placed an number of informative threads here that were helpful to people but that is history!

    I am making my posts and replies to you based on current information and knowledge that I have gained reading your posts and watching you operate here since I became a member.

    Do you realize that you come across like the spoiled rich kid that takes all the toys home because he can't have his way.

    Your pedantic persona on this board NOW tells me much about you as a person, like I wrote in a post you deleted TODAY, and your about psychological tendencies.

    Below is a quote from Kinsao and to one I agree with, there was no need for you to reply to "justify" yourself here. Your ego forced you to. I think you are old enough to realize that not everyone is going to agree with you, just based on what you write on an internet message board.

    Other members here have the knowledge and intuition to back you up if they believe what you are writing about. You are leading a parade of one. Many, including me, would like to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you do not give anyone the chance to do so, by your demanding things from others that you can not do yourself.

    Here is a piece of advice that I hope you listen to, why not let the people, besides me, living here in Japan be your "experts"? Between a number of members here, present compay NOT included there is probably about oh maybe 100 to 150 years of combined experience compared to your 3 or 4. THAT would go a long way to solving a lot of the issues that have come up recently about your "memories" of Japan. BTW ours aren't memories but more like daily experiences that we have.

    Stick to Europe that is your strong point.

    Let your threads speak for themselves, Mac.

    Why should you feel the need to make a thread such as this if you feel in yourself that your contributions are largely positive and informative?

    It seems you care how you come across to people. Well, if so, take care how you come across to people. If you feel that you've done so, there's no need to worry about it. There will always be a small number of people who 'take things the wrong way'.

  17. #17
    Danshaku Elizabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciam0
    You're a nasty piece of work. Period. Sooner or later Thomas is going to wake up to the fact that you're not just destroying the reputation of this place, but that you've driven away enough active members that you're actually damaging his revenue.
    Clearly it is going to take decisive action. Controllling someone's pattern of behaviors and emotions that have built up over a lifetime through reasoning or cajoling over the internet is a complete waste of energy in my opinion.

    It has been tried for years and still the problem persists, actually becoming more and more deeply embedded and intractable with each cycle or new round of members.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth
    Clearly it is going to take decisive action. Controllling someone's pattern of behaviors and emotions that have built up over a lifetime through reasoning or cajoling over the internet is a complete waste of energy in my opinion.

    It has been tried for years and still the problem persists, actually becoming more and more deeply embedded and intractable with each cycle or new round of members.
    Mmm....Elizabeth, does that mean I am wasting my time?

  19. #19
    Banned ricecake's Avatar
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    I personally find " Cultural Shock " sub-forum invaluable,it's a window to spectate the " true colors = good,bad,and ugly " of Japanese as a people.

  20. #20
    Veni, vidi... vicodin? GodEmperorLeto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cash
    If in your lifetime you eat 1000 McDonald's hamburgers and in that 1000 there is 1 bad one, it is human nature to recall the 1 and forget the 999.
    Wait, this is McDonald's. There should be only 1 good hamburger and 999 bad ones so it's no surprise.

    Quote Originally Posted by nice_gaijin
    Without revisiting any of them, I have to say that the overall impression I have of your opinion of Japan is that you are bitter about subtle forms of condescension and ethnocentrism that you construed as racism while you were there.
    Yeah? And? Sure he's disinclined towards Japanese culture on many levels after his experience. Maybe because some of these things need to be said?

    Hell, I live in a nation that has the unhappy pleasure of schizophrenically hating itself and being proud of itself, while meanwhile having the dubious honor of being thought of as a country of racist white religious fanatics who make war for fun by the rest of the world. Honestly, Maciamo has raised issues about Japan that are legitimate, despite his bias. On the other hand, I (and some other Americans) have endured the occasional snipe (some subtle, some glaringly obvious) against our country. Read that again: snipe, not issue-raising.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsao
    It seems you care how you come across to people. Well, if so, take care how you come across to people. If you feel that you've done so, there's no need to worry about it. There will always be a small number of people who 'take things the wrong way'.
    I would honestly argue that Maciamo shouldn't really give a jolly God-damn what others think. I'm not going to accuse anyone of being trollish, but plenty of people have taken their disagreements with Maciamo up as personal grudges. It is almost like they demand that everyone agree with them, and they see anyone who doesn't as "not living in reality".

    Well, US-bashing is apparently cool with plenty of people (note: there are exceptions). However, raising issues and expressing informed opinions based on personal experience about negative aspects of Japanese culture is regarded by a large number of forumgoers as wrong. To me, it seems like there is something severely unbalanced with this.

    I'm sorry, but every culture has it's good and bad. This includes both the U.S. (who has some good) and Japan (who has some bad). Perhaps Maciamo is a bit recalcitrant in his treatment of many of the issues raised, but I do not find him antagonistic. But for people claiming to live in reality, full-blown assaults on Maciamo's character and personal crusades to blast everything he says that you don't like is excessive. Heck, he's even helped to dispel a hell of a lot of illusions that I had about Japan, and partially thanks to him, when I do leave for there, I'll be much better prepared.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricecake
    I personally find " Cultural Shock " sub-forum invaluable,it's a window to spectate the " true colors = good,bad,and ugly " of Japanese as a people.
    Plenty of people don't feel that way, apparently. Nobody does anything to expose the negative side of Japanese culture on these forums, with the exception of Maciamo. Apparently this one person is far too many for some people. I wonder if people are more worried about "political correctness" than the truth.
    Ὦ ƒÌƒÃῖƒË', ἀƒÁƒÁέƒÉƒÉƒÃƒÇƒË ƒ©ƒ¿ƒÈƒÃƒÂƒ¿ƒÇƒÊƒÍƒËίƒÍƒÇς ὅƒÑƒÇ ƒÑῇƒÂƒÃ
    ƒÈƒÃίƒÊƒÃƒÆƒ¿, ƒÑƒÍῖς ƒÈƒÃίƒËƒÖƒË ῥήƒÊƒ¿ƒÐƒÇ ƒÎƒÃƒÇƒÆόƒÊƒÃƒËƒÍƒÇ.

  21. #21
    Banned ricecake's Avatar
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    All cultures have both good and bad points,I feel the same way about American as I often truthfully tell other Asian folks what to expect when dealing with Whites/Blacks/Hispanics in daily social interactions.

    Why can't people accept some negative aspects along with the good and fun attracted us to all things uniquely Japanese

  22. #22
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciam0
    You're a nasty piece of work. Period. Sooner or later Thomas is going to wake up to the fact that you're not just destroying the reputation of this place, but that you've driven away enough active members that you're actually damaging his revenue.
    Haha, somebody embodying me ! FYI, there was no revenue before Thomas and I decided to merge our websites and give JREF a facelift. Most of the JREF you see today was designed (and written, regarding content pages outside the forum) by myself. The advertising and finance is also under my responsability (and lead).

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodEmperorLeto
    Plenty of people don't feel that way, apparently. Nobody does anything to expose the negative side of Japanese culture on these forums, with the exception of Maciamo. Apparently this one person is far too many for some people. I wonder if people are more worried about "political correctness" than the truth.
    Hi, GEL! Actually there are others, but Maciamo is the most well-known.

    I don't think that people like myself who "defend" Japan are necessarily being P.C. I think we just disagree with people like Maciamo. Or shall I be more specific?

    I often agree that the issues that Mac and others raise do indeed exist. I just disagree about the interpretation of said issues.

    On the other side, I know that when I see someone who seems to think that Japan is some mystical Utopia, free from any blemish however so small, I disagree with them, too.

  24. #24
    Banned osias's Avatar
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    I thought the problem with maciamo was maladaptation or something.
    You can criticize, but you can't base your criticism on your self-serving bias and ignorance.

  25. #25
    Junior Member DoctorP's Avatar
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    Vanity thy name is Maciamo!

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