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Thread: English-friendly Japan

  1. #101
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverpoint
    The difference is that you totally and utterly refuse to accept this and use a condescending and arrogant tone to deliver your message, whereas we are usually pretty upfront and direct about it. I would ask you - which is the more honest approach?
    You call yourself upfront and direct, and more honest ? Shall I remind you that you are the one who posts sneaky contemptful comments about me out of the blue here and there. Shall I refresh your memory :

    In the thread " What 3 things would you take with you to an uninhibited island", you posted something saying that I had "serious personality issues" (I split this discussion elsewhere) because of my reply. This was your only contribution to the thread.

    Then, on 20 October 2005 : Post #17, #29, #30, #32 of this thread, you and mikecash made disparaging comments behind my back. Mike even gave you good rep. for your post and said "I take it that the word "someone" refers to the Belgian Lungfish" (yes, all admins and mods can see any member's reputation comments). In fact, you, CC1 and mikecash have exchanged each others reputation points, congratulating each others in the rep. comments, for every insulting comment made on me. This has happened in quite a few thread, including this one.

    It is always the 3 of you (and you, Silverpoint are by far the worst), so you understand that I tend to lose my patience with you guys when you come and look for a fight in the threads I post.

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  2. #102
    Banned Mike Cash's Avatar
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    I find it sad that the person in charge of the forum can not respect the privacy of the members. Not only snooping around reading reputation comments when no complaint has been lodged regarding them, but publicizing them as well.

    Are we to take it that your voyeurism extends to reading what are ostensibly "private" messages as well?

    <edit>

    I'll save you the trouble of violating my privacy by rooting through my private messages by just placing my most recent one here in the open where everyone else can see it:

    Sent to: Thomas

    I don't see how members can continue to enjoy the full use of JREF forums when we learn that the Admin not only abuses his access powers by snooping around reading rep point comments when no one has complained of abusive comments and requested an investigation of them, but also feels free to publicly post private comments.

    I made the comments in question, don't deny them, don't regret them, and most certainly don't apologize for them. My complaint is based on a matter of principle.

    Does the guy also read people's private messages? If he has access, I can only assume that he does.

    I don't think anyone can continue to use JREF Forums with any degree of confidence that their privacy will be respected so long as he retains either admin or moderator status.

  3. #103
    Junior Member DoctorP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    I will give you neg. rep. if I feel insulted. Red dot or not, it doesn't matter as you cannot see who give you the rep points anyway. That way I am sure you know it's me. My reputation power is by far the highest on this forum, with over 6000 posts, member almost since the very beginning, and with currently the highest reputation. All these contribute in the number of points I can give or take. Basically, when I give rep. to a new member, his/her green dots can pass from 1 to 3 in just 1 or 2 votes. For some reasons, even admins cannot change any member's rep. power, as it is constantly re-calaculated based on the current number of posts, rep. level and number of days since the joined date.
    My point is that it is quite cowardly to do it with hopes that no one would notice! I guess that a high IQ = no spine? I can only suspect that you are the type of person who could hit someone's car and then quickly speed away in hopes that no one witnessed a thing!




    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    As far as I know, you have never been banned, you or Silverpoint, and are still on the forum. If I had wanted you out, you wouldn't be posting now.
    I am not speaking about this incident, but another one in the past where you seemed to be ticked off at the fact that I did not agree with you, nor did I wish to bend over and accept your position as the only correct one. Do not worry, I will go on...it is not the end of the world.

    *Edit*
    Quote Originally Posted by Your awe-inspiring God
    In fact, you, CC1 and mikecash have exchanged each others reputation points, congratulating each others in the rep. comments, for every insulting comment made on me. This has happened in quite a few thread, including this one.
    I wouldn't call it congratulating...if I am not mistaken, Rep points are:
    Quote Originally Posted by JREF FAQ
    Its purpose is to hopefully give users an idea of how respected, knowledgeable, helpful, gracious, etc., a person is. It is a system in which you rate your peers. It is a system that, hopefully, will make you think twice about your posts.
    I do not have a problem with you disagreeing with a post and giving negative rep points...that is what the system is for! As it is also for me giving Mike or Silverpoint positive rep if I agree with their post! Is that not correct?

    What I do have a problem with is you sneaking in to take the rep! Why not do it the same as everyone else? To me, what you did is no worse than a CEO embezzling money from a corporation! But as I stated before...I will get over it!

  4. #104
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikecash
    I find it sad that the person in charge of the forum can not respect the privacy of the members. Not only snooping around reading reputation comments when no complaint has been lodged regarding them, but publicizing them as well.
    No one complain about them ? I do ! I am the one who is being abused here. How comes you always seem to think that because I am the admin I do not have the same rights as other members to complain or discuss what I want in a thread that I start ? This message about about me. As a forum member (not as admin), I object to being talked about so indignanatly by supposedly "respectable" members like you (judging that you have the third highest reputation of all forum members).

    Does the guy also read people's private messages? If he has access, I can only assume that he does.
    Just so that you know, it is not possible to see other users' PM, even for Admins. This was designed like that by the programmers of vBulletin.

  5. #105
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC1
    I do not have a problem with you disagreeing with a post and giving negative rep points...that is what the system is for! As it is also for me giving Mike or Silverpoint positive rep if I agree with their post! Is that not correct?
    So you think that calling me names is a factor determining how respected, knowledgeable, helpful, gracious, etc., is the person that does it ? Very gracious, indeed. Especially when you know what kind of rep. comments are attached to the already insulting post !

    What I do have a problem with is you sneaking in to take the rep! Why not do it the same as everyone else? To me, what you did is no worse than a CEO embezzling money from a corporation! But as I stated before...I will get over it!
    I don't see what it changes whether you see a red dot for one particular post or not, as you cannot see the rep. is from me anyway (only admins and mods automatically see who gave them rep. points). If you want to know, I didn't attach the rep to one post, because I gave it to you for the reputation points issues between you, mikecash and silverpoint. I certainly do not want to give you the feeling that I am giving you bad rep. for a random post that does not deserve it, when I really did it to punish your above-mentioned behaviour. I guess I could have sent you a PM saying "hey you know, I gave you bad rep points !", but that would have sounded quite provocative. Instead, I took the opportunity to explain it in this thread. Note that I could have denied giving you bad rep. and even blame it on the system, had I been what you called me. But I affirmed it outright and exlpained my reasons to everyone.

    In fact, had you not raised the issue, the three of you would have benefited from my discretion about your shenanigans against me. But you were not sagacious enough to think about why I needed to give you bad rep. and about the consequences of carelessly raising the subject in public. I feel a bit sorry for mike who did not complain about his rep. (maybe because he got a red dot), after all, he was the one to make the most ungracious comment on my account (not just in "private", but in this thread too).

  6. #106
    Junior Member DoctorP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maciamo
    I certainly do not want to give you the feeling that I am giving you bad rep. for a random post that does not deserve it, when I really did it to punish your above-mentioned behaviour.
    so you admit to abusing the system? Whatever, it really doesn't matter to me anyway! If I cared what you thought of me I would...well nevermind I do not feel like stooping. Could we please get this thread back on topic? I am tired of you drifting!

  7. #107
    Go to shopping PopCulturePooka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    No one complain about them ? I do ! I am the one who is being abused here. How comes you always seem to think that because I am the admin I do not have the same rights as other members to complain or discuss what I want in a thread that I start ? This message about about me. As a forum member (not as admin), I object to being talked about so indignanatly by supposedly "respectable" members like you (judging that you have the third highest reputation of all forum members).
    The point is that they were messages from one member too another. Supposed to be private. Even if you have access to those messages, you should not be reading them unless one of the two parties involved in sending and recieving complains.

    You are still invading the privacy of members, even if you are the subject of the messages.

    Otherwise its an abuse of admin powers.


    Just so that you know, it is not possible to see other users' PM, even for Admins. This was designed like that by the programmers of vBulletin.
    Actually, there are a few hacks that allow admin's to read private messages. An admin at my old board I modded at installed one.

  8. #108
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC1
    so you admit to abusing the system? Whatever, it really doesn't matter to me anyway! If I cared what you thought of me I would...well nevermind I do not feel like stooping. Could we please get this thread back on topic? I am tired of you drifting!
    Abusing the system ? Under what rules ? Rules are written by the admin (not by any government or common concensus of all the users), and do not mention anything in this regard. Admins and mods have the power and right to look at reputation comments, ban users, punish them in another way (like I did), and maybe more things. For example, admins can determine the number of points necessary to pass from one level to another, write the sentence describing one particular level, and edit them at any given time if they judge it necessary. I was the one to introduce the reputation system (you'll note that Thomas does not use it, as is anybody's choice) and to set the rules. So I don't think you are in a position to admonish me.

    Contrarily to what Silverpoint said earlier in this thread, admins do set the rules and censor when they deem necessary. I don't know who he is to tell me :

    Quote Originally Posted by silverpoint
    Why should you decide what can and can't be discussed in this thread? It makes not a single bit of difference that you started it.
    Yet, it had been discussed long before he joined this forum, whether people should be allowed to "highjack" someone's thread, or go offtopic at will. At first moderators tried to keep all discussion 'on topic', and scolded those who didn't. Then, we decided (among team members, but also judging from what the wish expressed by some members at the time), that off-topics would be split into new threads. I wanted to do so here, but it became almost impossible in order to understand the ensuing argument. So I create a new thread, learning from my mistakes by changing the title and announcing from the start that the topic was not about "how easy it was for English-speakers to live in Japan" so as to avoid futile arguments. Well, unsurprisingly the same trouble-makers as in this thread (except you), were the first (and only ones so far) to reply and to "sabotage" again the thread with irrelevant comments.

    How am I supposed to react, as an administrator of this forum, in face of this constant defiance by the same few ? Honestly, what would you do if you were in my shoes ?

  9. #109
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopCulturePooka
    The point is that they were messages from one member too another. Supposed to be private. Even if you have access to those messages, you should not be reading them unless one of the two parties involved in sending and recieving complains.

    You are still invading the privacy of members, even if you are the subject of the messages.
    Admins AND mods have the power and right to read reputation comments to check for abuses of the reputation system. I couldn't believe that Silverpoint had so many "green balls" with only a few hundred posts, a good deal of which were unproductive arguments with me, and otherwise few really remarkable posts. He only started 4 threads, including one about his wedding.

    That's how I came across mikecash's comments.

    Actually, there are a few hacks that allow admin's to read private messages. An admin at my old board I modded at installed one.
    Well we don't do that here.

  10. #110
    Go to shopping PopCulturePooka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Admins AND mods have the power and right to read reputation comments to check for abuses of the reputation system. I couldn't believe that Silverpoint had so many "green balls" with only a few hundred posts, a good deal of which were unproductive arguments with me, and otherwise few really remarkable posts. He only started 4 threads, including one about his wedding.
    Are they abuses of the system if the two parties aren't complaining?

    Its their perogative about what comments they make to each other.

    It does not matter how much rep Silverpoint has and why he has it. People can give rep if they agree with or support another poster.

    Tell me, if you read a rep comment from Mikecash to say... Frank badmouthing me, would you inform me?

    What makes the same happening to you any different?

  11. #111
    Banned Mike Cash's Avatar
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    The lack of integrity displayed by the snooping and publicizing of private comments makes it very hard to have much faith in the "Well, we don't do that here" regarding hacking into private messages.

    I'm just thankful I didn't have to enter my credit card information.....

    People with god complexes are poor choices to place in positions of authority.

  12. #112
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopCulturePooka
    Are they abuses of the system if the two parties aren't complaining?

    Its their perogative about what comments they make to each other.

    It does not matter how much rep Silverpoint has and why he has it. People can give rep if they agree with or support another poster.
    If you had read the "sticky" thread "Reputation Points" : RULES, posted a bit more than one year ago, you would have noticed that I already checked several users' reputation comments on suspicion of abuse. It was clearly explained that :

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    If I do find anyone contnuing their unfair trade of rep points (and all admins and moderators have the capability to view any users's reputation comments and who it comes from), I will not hesitate to penalise them (at worst I could reset their rep. to zero)
    This means that I had the capability and right to check reputation comments from the start (this was posted soon after the reputation system was introduced), and I explicitly said that I was going to check people whenver I felt it necessary (or even at random) tp prevent abuses. As forum members are supposed to have read these rules, they cannot complain about writing "private" things there. CC1, and Silverpoint that joined the forum only 3 months ago, have read and replied to this thread. I doubt that mikecash, who has 2,250 posts and even joined the forum before me (I only realised that now => Join Date: 15-03-2002 !), never to have noticed this thread, prominently stuck at the top of the "Site & Forum Updates" subforum.

  13. #113
    Banned Mike Cash's Avatar
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    Do the rules say that admins/moderators will make public the contents of rep point comments?

    Given your attitude about the rep point system, I can't understand why you don't disable the system for members and just assign points as you wish.

    Now that I see the unpricipled whims of an individual make a mockery of the system, for the first time I have a reason to disable display of rep points.

  14. #114
    Go to shopping PopCulturePooka's Avatar
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    Tell me, if you read a rep comment from Mikecash to say... Frank badmouthing me, would you inform me?

    What makes the same happening to you any different?

  15. #115
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikecash
    People with god complexes are poor choices to place in positions of authority.
    I also find it hard to swallow that after all this time on this forum (and several arguments between you and me on the subject), you do not yet know (or repeatedly forget, or can't accept ?) that I do not believe in any forms of deity. That's all in the Religion & Philosophy subforum.

    If it is my "title" ŠN_ that make you think this way, I explained in this thread that it mean something like "accuse god (the gods) of crimes/misdeeds" (in the case you had forgotten, we had an argument on the subject of "god" in that very thread, 7 days ago !). It's my way of showing that I don't believe in god(s) and think that religions have been the cause of many of the world's wars and misery.

  16. #116
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopCulturePooka
    Tell me, if you read a rep comment from Mikecash to say... Frank badmouthing me, would you inform me?

    What makes the same happening to you any different?
    I am not sure, I haven't seen anything that could seriously compromise other members so far. In fact I now rarely check people's rep comments as there are just too many of them and too many members. Sometimes we have request or complaints from some members and we check whether it is justified or not. The last person I checked before the three here was McTojo (I wondered who could have given him positive rep points as it went up a few times).

  17. #117
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikecash
    Do the rules say that admins/moderators will make public the contents of rep point comments?
    If you scroll down a bit to post #4, you will see 3 examples of comments exposed to the public and denounced as abuses.

  18. #118
    Banned Mike Cash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    If you scroll down a bit to post #4, you will see 3 examples of comments exposed to the public and denounced as abuses.
    Further examples of your unpricipled abuse of power hardly constitutes an article in the rules.

  19. #119
    Go to shopping PopCulturePooka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    I am not sure, I haven't seen anything that could seriously compromise other members so far. In fact I now rarely check people's rep comments as there are just too many of them and too many members. Sometimes we have request or complaints from some members and we check whether it is justified or not. The last person I checked before the three here was McTojo (I wondered who could have given him positive rep points as it went up a few times).
    So, without complaints from anyone who sent or recieved comments, how were you to know there were abuses being performed unless you decided to read the comments on a hunch, something you just admitted to not usually doing?

    What made you decided to check mikes, silvers and CC1's comments?

  20. #120
    Go to shopping PopCulturePooka's Avatar
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    So when should you give reputation to someone ?

    Reputation is made to reward good members for their participation. I recommend all of you not to be stingy on reputation votes and approve any message that :

    - answered your question, gave your relevant information or made you learn something interesting
    - was well-written or funny enough to deserve recognition
    - express exactly what was in your mind (i.e. agree completely)

  21. #121
    Junior Member DoctorP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Abusing the system ? Under what rules ? Rules are written by the admin (not by any government or common concensus of all the users), and do not mention anything in this regard. Admins and mods have the power and right to look at reputation comments, ban users, punish them in another way (like I did), and maybe more things. For example, admins can determine the number of points necessary to pass from one level to another, write the sentence describing one particular level, and edit them at any given time if they judge it necessary. I was the one to introduce the reputation system and to set the rules. So I don't think you are in a position to admonish me.
    I am in a perfect position to admonish you as I am one of the users of this forum! I am a member of this republic...a customer, I am a JREFian! If you are so perfect, please note that I quoted the actual JREF FAQ's...maybe they should be updated to reflect the entries in the sticky thread!


    Quote Originally Posted by maciamo
    Yet, it had been discussed long before he joined this forum, whether people should be allowed to "highjack" someone's thread, or go offtopic at will. At first moderators tried to keep all discussion 'on topic', and scolded those who didn't. Then, we decided (among team members, but also judging from what the wish expressed by some members at the time), that off-topics would be split into new threads. I wanted to do so here, but it became almost impossible in order to understand the ensuing argument. So I create a new thread, learning from my mistakes by changing the title and announcing from the start that the topic was not about "how easy it was for English-speakers to live in Japan" so as to avoid futile arguments.
    So why haven't you 1) tried to put this thread back on track as I did earlier? or 2) create a seperate thread to continue this discussion in?

    Quote Originally Posted by maciamo
    Well, unsurprisingly the same trouble-makers as in this thread (except you), were the first (and only ones so far) to reply and to "sabotage" again the thread with irrelevant comments.
    Can you attempt to clarify this for me? The wording is slightly confusing!

    Quote Originally Posted by maciamo
    How am I supposed to react, as an administrator of this forum, in face of this constant defiance by the same few ? Honestly, what would you do if you were in my shoes ?
    The defiance you mention is the use of the rep system and free speech? Or the fact that (some) users do not agree with your point of view? If it is the latter, that is part of life.
    Last edited by DoctorP; Oct 30, 2005 at 08:40. Reason: spelling

  22. #122
    silent-buddhist Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    The last person I checked before the three here was McTojo (I wondered who could have given him positive rep points as it went up a few times).
    This is done it for me, i gave Mc-tojo rep because i like his style hes very afformistic(dictionary), and i find out here folk are looking about peoples pm's and rep's, this is not very nice is it?

  23. #123
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack2
    This is done it for me, i gave Mc-tojo rep because i like his style hes very afformistic(dictionary), and i find out here folk are looking about peoples pm's and rep's, this is not very nice is it?
    Nobody is looking at people's PM, what mikecash is trying to make you believe.

  24. #124
    silent-buddhist Jack's Avatar
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    Could i ask you then,
    do you think its wrong to use admin powers to look at members private messages?

  25. #125
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack2
    Could i ask you then,
    do you think its wrong to use admin powers to look at members private messages?
    Yes, I think it is wrong. Private messages are not used like reputation comments. The latter is supposed to show only approval or disapproval, and explain why. There shouldn't be anything "private" about this. In some forums the reputation system works with points from 1 to 5 for each post, and everybody can see how many people have voted and what is the avergae score for any message on the forum. This goes well beyond the current system in terms of "privacy", as if somebody gets 15 bad votes for a single post, then everybody will immediately notice it. What's forum, the forum on which I saw that system has no reputation comments to justify those points.

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