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Thread: General Tojo Hideki's granddaughter insists that Japan fought a war of self-defence

  1. #26
    Veni, vidi... vicodin? GodEmperorLeto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frostyg02uk View Post
    Of course when the Us pushed Japan into a corner like i mentioned before while they decided if they would help or not Japan were forced to react and they thought that by destorying the navy at pearl they could end any envolment that the Us planned before it started. Of course dispite it being a master plan the general underestimated it and took it for a complete victory refusing to go on and bomb mainland america. Once it came to a war of neutrition of course america would win not just because of industrial capabilitys but also due to the fact that the rest of the world had been fighting for many years before america. Shortly after pearl habour Japan were forced to retreat so in an american sense they fought a defensive war but for the places that where invaded years before this it was a war of aggression.
    There is so much historically wrong about this, I don't even no where to begin, so instead, I'm going to sit down, pour myself some scotch, and maybe come back to tackle this later.

    Quote Originally Posted by caster51
    Yes because most of them were colonies of ...
    Korea was about to be a colony of russain
    You have got to be kidding me. Caster, you just argued on another forum how the Japanese were part of the Eight-Nation Alliance and worked together during the Boxer Rebellion in China.

    In addition, Japan was on pretty good terms with the U.S. until it signed on with Nazi Germany. That and, if Japan hadn't been slaughtering it's way across China so aggressively, I honestly don't think much of Europe would have cared that much about the Empire of Japan joining the Neo-Colonial club, except for the fact that Neo-colonialism was dying.

    The United States ran Shanghai right up until we left and allowed the Japanese to have it, I might add.

    If you seriously think that the Dutch in the East Indies and the Americans in the Philippines were all planning on invading Japan, you need to think again. And don't compare Japan to China. When Commodore Perry showed up, your country decided trade and telegraphs were better than getting carved up into spheres of influence, so Japan picked the high road from the beginning. China closed its doors to the outside world, and it took lots of bullets to force those doors open. Admittedly, it wasn't the kindest, gentlest, and most proper thing to do, but after Nanking, I don't think any Japanese critic of Western interference in China really has a leg to stand on.

    Nevertheless, I agree with a lot of the claims in that person's book review you posted. Yeah, it was a war between imperial powers. And I think it is a big sad tragedy that it happened in the first place. I think Japan and the United States would have (and should have) made better friends throughout their histories rather than enemies.

    Japan intended to kick every non-Asian imperial power out of East Asia. But this wasn't the altruistic crusade to liberate one's neighbors. Rather, it was a campaign with two aims: 1) to retain or increase the powers of the military that de-facto ruled the country by controlling the government, and 2) to create a vast network of mercantalism that would send resources to Japan and create economic dependencies throughout the Western Pacific in order to empower the Japanese economy.

    Japan was just as crafty as the Europeans. Empires are empires. Period.
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  2. #27
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    You have got to be kidding me. Caster, you just argued on another forum how the Japanese were part of the Eight-Nation Alliance and worked together during the Boxer Rebellion in China.
    Yes it was.
    In addition, Japan was on pretty good terms with the U.S. until it signed on with Nazi Germany. That and, if Japan hadn't been slaughtering it's way across China so aggressively, I honestly don't think much of Europe would have cared that much about the Empire of Japan joining the Neo-Colonial club, except for the fact that Neo-colonialism was dying.
    you don know the his speech about Japanese.
    after russian war, he said " We do not scare the Japanese itself. however white ppl must stop the unity in china by Japanese hand. It is a threat for the white."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William...German_Emperor
    The United States ran Shanghai right up until we left and allowed the Japanese to have it, I might add.
    If you seriously think that the Dutch in the East Indies and the Americans in the Philippines were all planning on invading Japan, you need to think again. And don't compare Japan to China.
    that was a settlement of Japanese army that was permitted like today's US base in Japan
    most Japanese ppl at that time was beliver of Sun Yat-sen
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Yat-sen
    When Commodore Perry showed up, your country decided trade and telegraphs were better than getting carved up into spheres of influence, so Japan picked the high road from the beginning. China closed its doors to the outside world, and it took lots of bullets to force those doors open. Admittedly, it wasn't the kindest, gentlest, and most proper thing to do, but after Nanking, I don't think any Japanese critic of Western interference in China really has a leg to stand on.
    ?????
    you should read NY times of articles "china is ours" on Aug 15th 1945.
    it is nothing to do with Tojyo
    Tojyo became a prime minister in 1941...
    MacArthur, Douglas was also admitted it through his experience of korean war in complicated Asia .that was Japanese defence
    Last edited by caster51; Jul 3, 2007 at 16:54.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by caster51 View Post
    Yes it was.
    you don know the his speech about Japanese.
    after russian war, he said " We do not scare the Japanese itself. however white ppl must stop the unity in china by Japanese hand. It is a threat for the white."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William...German_Emperor
    Yeah, and we fought a war against Wilhelm in which Japan was part of the Allies.

    He also said that he wanted the Germans to be remembered in China like the Huns were, which led to the derogatory British term for the Germans during the two world wars. I don't think you can honestly say that Kaiser Wilhelm ever spoke for the sentiments of Europe or the United States. His words were his, and not anyone else's.

    that was a settlement of Japanese army that was permitted like today's US base in Japan
    The Japanese occupation of Shanghai wasn't condoned by the Chinese government because there was no real Chinese government at the time. The U.S. basically gave Japan Shanghai. It wasn't a military base. It was a colonial possession that was effectively ceded to Japan.

    you should read NY times of articles "china is ours" on Aug 15th 1945.
    it is nothing to do with Tojyo
    Tojyo became a prime minister in 1941...
    MacArthur, Douglas was also admitted it through his experience of korean war in complicated Asia .that was Japanese defence
    I agree, it has nothing to do with Tojo, and I don't know why you brought him up.

    Asian politics are complex, yeah, but no more complex than European politics had been. If you want to read about complex political ties, read about the Hundred Years' War, or the Thirty Years War, or just study the Hapsburgs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caster51 View Post
    Dutch made a school for ppls there?
    No they didnt. but most of the dutch political leaders and historians agree that what the dutch did during colonial periods were horrible.

    The criticism today is not so much of what Japan did in the past, but more of what Japan is not admitting in the present. We all love Germany, but they have committed even worse crimes than Japan has. But they have banned Nazism, set up memorials and German nation as a whole agrees the war was wrong.

    We dont have german people saying the war was a defensive war, arguing they were there was no way out for the Germans after the dump they were sitting on after WWI, which is more valid of an argument than the Japan's war for peace.

    In Japan, many people still do not believe the war was wrong. This is where the criticism is directed.

  5. #30
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    In Japan, many people still do not believe the war was wrong. This is where the criticism is directed.
    I think today's all Japanese think WAR was wrong.
    however ,war is legal in all country's Law except Japan
    that is way there is an article 9 in reality...

    it does not mean Japan was wrong at all.

  6. #31
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    Abe's speech at indian congress
     
    安倍首相は22日にインド国会で演説した際、東京裁判で唯一A級戦犯25人の無罪を主張した故パール判事に ついて、「裁判で勇気をみせたパール判事は今でも日本国民から尊敬を集めている」と述べた。23日にパール 判事の長男と会った席でも、「パール判事は日本・インド関係の基礎を築いた1人だ」とたたえた 。
    Radhabinod Pal
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radhabinod_Pal

    Abe said " judge Pal who showed courage at tokyo trial is still collecting respect from the Japanese people."

    This remark might have taken on immense importance if it was before.
    no Japanese cares about that any more.....
    ppl realized truth?
    oops.. only asahi communist newspaper complained that china is more important than india

    and then korean newspaper criticized it
    http://japanese.yonhapnews.co.kr/rel...002300882.HTML

    Confluence of the Two Seas
    http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-pa.../speech-2.html

    http://www.geocities.co.jp/Milano-Aoyama/6915/
    Last edited by caster51; Aug 25, 2007 at 15:18.

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