Should Japan abandon the "16-rays rising sun flag" ?

[Arabic Boy]

I don't think that japan needs to change their flag ...

terorrests all over the world are using our flag ( check under my name )

and we ain't changing no s***

[akita]

There is no valid reason for such a thing. First of all is not their national flag. Secondly it was adopted long before the WWII. The Nazi Germany flag was not the normal Germany flag before the war. It is the navy symbol and it seams very normal to me that they respect it with no other connotation .

Should we ban the red color since it was on the communist flags? Should the countries in Europe that have on their flags a cross change them because of crusades?
As Arabic boy said should all Arabs countries start to change flags that some terrorists use them ?

[dongdong]

I don't think that japan needs to change their flag ...
terorrests all over the world are using our flag ( check under my name )
and we ain't changing no s***

Terrorists and Japan has nothing todo with that.
You are comparing totally differnet things

[dongdong]

Some Japaneses claim that Japan has already apologized for the past war crime during WWII.
If they have apologized, then why would they agree on 16 rays rising sun flag since that flag symbolize imperialism of Japan during WWII era?

In this case, it is a double standard.

[caster51]

If they have apologized, then why would they agree on 16 rays rising sun flag since that flag symbolize imperialism of Japan during WWII era?

Flag has a nothing to do with apology.

[hotaruika]

I believe justice of The rising sun flag.
The rising sun flag　correspond to Iron Cross(Eisernes Kreuz,German Cross of the armed forces）.It is not Haken Kreuz（German Cross of Nazi）.German Federal Defence Forces　are Ｉｎ use to Iron Cross　now.

[General Lee]

Reading through this thread reminded me of the old confederate flag controversy down south. This is still a hotly-debtated issue with a lot of people. I'm not sure what the answer is really.

Just because you lose a battle or war, do you have to try to erase your own past and history as well?

Do the victors win that much of a victory?

[Astroboy]

Kyokujituki (many-rays rising sun flag) is much better than ordinary J-flag coz it indicates "rising sun".

[Astroboy]

COOL Kyokujitu-Ki -2

It is also a symbol of Japanese Navy today.



Very COOL.

[grapefruit]

It is almost puzzling why there is always an argument of comparing the course of action that Japan should take to what other countries do (e.g. Germany)? If there is a proper reason for doing something, the existence of precedence should matter.

When it comes to the issue of the flag, people of some countries have strong negative reactions to the flag. It is the best interest of Japan to stop using it and to bring an end to the vicious cycle of continuously evoking the horrifying past. Even if such action is taken as a sign of yielding to foreign pressures, what can the government gain by sticking to this tradition? It is just a flag. Abolishing the flag will gain more trust of the neighboring countries.

[Astroboy]

In June 2008, Japanese Naval Escort arrives at a port of Guangdong province of China, carrying "Kyokujitsuki" - a symbol of J-Navy.

[grapefruit]

I wonder how people in Guangdong would have reacted if they had known...

I thought this was funny



I meant this. I found this the other day at the Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Japanada.png

[Uncle Frank]

In the US, they are always argueing free speech VS flag desecration. I remember during the Vietnam era, some protesters wore the US flag as dipers. I always thought this would make a good US flag:

[akita]

It is almost puzzling why there is always an argument of comparing the course of action that Japan should take to what other countries do (e.g. Germany)? If there is a proper reason for doing something, the existence of precedence should matter.
When it comes to the issue of the flag, people of some countries have strong negative reactions to the flag. It is the best interest of Japan to stop using it and to bring an end to the vicious cycle of continuously evoking the horrifying past. Even if such action is taken as a sign of yielding to foreign pressures, what can the government gain by sticking to this tradition? It is just a flag. Abolishing the flag will gain more trust of the neighboring countries.

Ok i know people who have a much stronger reaction when they see American flag. Should USA abolish its own flag? I think that although there are nations that might be offended by this japanese symbol there was never a reason for violence or something else. On the other hand American flag is almost daily burned, in violent events so should the country start using something else as a flag?

Great Britain was also an empire but I don t thing they will change very soon the flag.

[grapefruit]

Ok i know people who have a much stronger reaction when they see American flag. Should USA abolish its own flag? I think that although there are nations that might be offended by this japanese symbol there was never a reason for violence or something else. On the other hand American flag is almost daily burned, in violent events so should the country start using something else as a flag?
Great Britain was also an empire but I don t thing they will change very soon the flag.

We are talking about the 16-rays rising sun flag in this thread. Abolishing the national flag is not being discussed. So, the example of the US national flag has little significance.

[caster51]

When it comes to the issue of the flag, people of some countries have strong negative reactions to the flag. It is the best interest of Japan to stop using it and to bring an end to the vicious cycle of continuously evoking the horrifying past

it is the worst interest of Japan to do that

[Azuma_Fujin]

Politics aside, i love the 15 ray flag, i think it's beautiful and has a beautiful striking design. It reminds me of the sun in all it's glory, not really of Japan.

I believe that Japan has every right to keep the flag as it's a part of their history, good or bad. We, as non-citizens have no right to tell them to keep it or not, and as it's a naval flag, what difference does it really make? Does it really get on the person's goat that they keep this flag? Is it really that important? I like it much better than the poached egg (hinomaru) and think if it should be the national flag, but that's just my opinion.

Sorry, correction: 16 ray flag... ;)

[grapefruit]

Politics aside, i love the 15 ray flag, i think it's beautiful and has a beautiful striking design. It reminds me of the sun in all it's glory, not really of Japan.

Personally, I like the design too. But, I still oppose to keep the flag as the navel flag to be considerate to Japan's neighboring countries.

I believe that Japan has every right to keep the flag as it's a part of their history, good or bad.

I concur with Japan's right to keep the flag, but I don't think Jewish people would feel happy if Germany claimed their Nazi flag resorting to this line of argument. How the flag was symbolized during the WWII has significant meaning to those who suffered from atrocities inflicted by the Japanese military. The blanket argument that Japan has every right to the flag ignores the fact that the flag conjures up Japanese militarism in the WWII among Chinese and some other Asians.

We, as non-citizens have no right to tell them to keep it or not,

It's okay. We are just discussing. It is more meaningful and interesting to hear non-citizens' opinions.

it's a naval flag, what difference does it really make?

Exactly, it's just a naval flag. It virtually does not make any difference to the average Japanese person's life. In fact, I did not know that the flag was still the official naval flag before I stumbled upon this thread. The fact the Asahi newspaper still carries this flag will probably attract more attention of common people in Japan.

Does it really get on the person's goat that they keep this flag?

Yes it does (by the way, this is my first time to encounter this expression). You can easily find out how Chinese react by asking your Chinese neighbors in Australia.

[Astroboy]

"Flags" are often burned.



Chinese Five Starred Red Flag is burned in Tibet, Europe, USA, etc.
US Stars & Stripes is burned in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

[Azuma_Fujin]

How the flag was symbolized during the WWII has significant meaning to those who suffered from atrocities inflicted by the Japanese military

I realise that. My grandfather fought in WWII against the Japanese, he was shot in the shoulder. He had nightmares every night of his life after the war, and eventually ended up crazy because of it! My mum did not see her dad for the first time until the war ended.

I can understand that some people have a problem with it. However, Japan and Germany are separate countries, even if they were allies in the war. In my opinion the two are not linked.

I know Japan did some horrendous things during the war, i've read many books, watched many movies, have done research, and most of all have listened to my grandfather's tales of horror of things he witnessed during his time fighting them.

I can't hold my Japanese husband accountable for what those people did in the war, it was a different time, a different mindset. So i don't think that a flag that was used back then for the military, even if it is used now for the military, has the same meaning.

That's my opinion. I respect your right to yours.

[caster51]

if Germany claimed their Nazi flag resorting to this line of argument. How the flag was symbolized during the WWII has significant meaning to those who suffered from atrocities inflicted by the Japanese milita

what does the Japanese military flag have to do with Nazi's flag?

[grapefruit]

However, Japan and Germany are separate countries, even if they were allies in the war. In my opinion the two are not linked.

I never linked the two countries. I was trying to show that the German case obviously took into consideration how people who suffered the atrocities react to the Nazi flag. Japan can also be considerate to the countries that Japan inflected damage to during the war. Of course there is no obligation. Japan has every right to keep the flag. But, I thought Japanese people took pride in being considerate to others and were sensitive to the feelings of others. I did not know Japan cared so much about rights. I thought the country cared more about harmony, unlike the US, which overemphasizes self-interest. That's at least what I learned when I was there. Maybe Japanese people are considerate to others only within the borders of the country. If this was the case, I would certainly be disappointed.

I can't hold my Japanese husband accountable for what those people did in the war, it was a different time, a different mindset.

I never said your Japanese husband needs to be held accountable for what Japan did in the past. I, as a Japanese national who never experienced the war, do not want to be held accountable, either. I'm simply saying the rising sun flag has too much negative meaning in it. At least, we know that Chinese connects it with Japanese militarism.

So i don't think that a flag that was used back then for the military, even if it is used now for the military, has the same meaning.

Of course, from the Japanese point of view, it does not mean the same thing, but from the Chinese side's view, it still symbolizes the same Japanese militarism. Since the flag is certainly used for communication purposes (it is used to identify Japanese naval ships by both Japan and other countries), its meaning is shaped by all parties. Besides, we agree that the naval flag is not something Japanese people care much, so why not choose a totally new flag, which has no possibility of offending people? (If we were talking about abolishing the national "hinomaru" flag, I would certainly not want to abolish it. However, we should also be aware that even the hinomaru flag conjures up the Japanese militarism in many Chinese. Anyway, this is off topic.) Whether one supports or opposes the rising sun flag, the flag surely offends Chinese. Why would one like to keep offending others by insisting on something unimportant?

[caster51]

Why would one like to keep offending others by insisting on something unimportant?

why dose Japan care about the chinese and korea.
I think USA is not such childish
it is not unimportant because The Self Defense Forces itself is unpleasant for them

[grapefruit]

why dose Japan care about the chinese and korea.

My position is that Japan should be considerate to all people in the world. Thus, my concern for Japan's international relationship is not limited to China and Korea. When it comes to the issue of the rising sun flag, the greatest impact will be felt by Chinese and Koreans, and some Asians. That's all.

I think USA is not such childish

If you are referring to childish behavior of China and Korea in relation to Yasukuni, textbook policy, border conflicts, and demand for apology, I have a different view on each case, and I don't have space here for explaining them. It is also inappropriate to put everything under "childish behavior". Some are childish and others are not.

it is not unimportant because The Self Defense Forces itself is unpleasant for them

Can you elaborate on this?

[caster51]

Can you elaborate on this?

The Self Defense Forces itself is military forces of the defense.
It is not a sign of friendship.

Thus, my concern for Japan's international relationship is not limited to China and Korea

They will not violate territorial waters.
I think it is good for Japan.
Japan should not be related to them.
Japan should keep a distance and look at them
The flag will look like the ghost for enemy.
I think you should study about sinocentrism.

If you are referring to childish behavior of China and Korea in relation to Yasukuni, textbook policy, border conflicts, and demand for apology

Japan never complain of Textbook of other country, etc..