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View Poll Results: Should Japan abandon the "16-rays rising sun flag" ?

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  • Yes, and the flag should be officially banned in public places too, as was the Nazi flag in Germany

    29 22.66%
  • Yes, it is the equivalent of the Nazi swastika flag and is unacceptable in today's world

    17 13.28%
  • Yes, because it reminds Japan's neighbours of its past atrocities

    14 10.94%
  • Probably. It would be so easy to choose another naval ensign, even the "hinomaru" flag.

    8 6.25%
  • No, there is no valid reason to change Japan's naval flag.

    43 33.59%
  • No, it is a cultural symbol of Japan('s military)

    25 19.53%
  • No it stands for Japan's eternal Empire of the Rising Sun. Banzai !

    24 18.75%
  • No idea

    9 7.03%
  • Don't give a damn about the Japanese flags

    10 7.81%
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Thread: Should Japan abandon the "16-rays rising sun flag" ?

  1. #101
    Regular Member Elizabeth van Kampen's Avatar
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    Last year I read in several Japanese newspapers ( Japan Times, Japan Today and the Asahi Shimbun) that quite some Japanese teachers were worried about the return of the 8 rays flag and the anthem.

    Well, I am afraid that Japan will do it again, because Germany learnt from their mistakes during WW II, but Japan didn't.

    As Confusius said; Making mistakes is nothing, but not learning from your mistakes ... that is really making mistakes!

  2. #102
    Horizon Rider Kinsao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth van Kampen
    Well, I am afraid that Japan will do it again, because Germany learnt from their mistakes during WW II, but Japan didn't.
    Well, I am not sure... I don't think it's fair to say that Japan didn't learn from its mistakes. It didn't do perfect everything since, far from it, but which country does? I think Japan has learnt some lessons. I wonder sometimes how many lessons exactly has England learned...

    I really think that to give such significance to the flag only gives more power into the hands of people who want to misuse it. I am all for reclaiming. After all, swastika is Hindu symbol and you see it on the Hindu temples. I think it's better for people to remember the real meanings.

  3. #103
    Regular Member Sukotto's Avatar
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    After reading other people's arguments and thinking about it a little more,
    I must say I really do not know what the right answer is to this.
    Which might be why I never actually voted in the poll yet.

    Maybe it is none of my business.
    What do the people (but not necessarily the gov'ts, they usually tend to be
    diplomatic and overly polite) of the countries Japan colonized or tried to colonize think about this? I would think their opinion matters more than someone who happened to be born in the country that seemed to deal out
    winners 'justice' after the war.

    Although I still have issue with the confederate flag as noted in an earlier post- not 'winner's justice' reasoning.
    check out this awesome shirt.
    If You're Really a Goth, Where Were You When We Sacked Rome?
    no, i got nothing against goths. just think the shirt is neat.

  4. #104
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    Question Rising sun emblem

    I'm a new member, so please bear with me.

    I've read through the postings on this subject and politics aside nowhere can I find why the 'rising sun' was adopted as a flag. Don't get me wrong - it's a very powerful symbol, arguably stronger than the red disk on white. But why that particular design? Does it go directly to something that was happening at the time in Japan? And is the sun really 'rising' ? It looks as though it's more like overhead.

    No tricks here, I guarantee, just a simple search for enlightenment.

    Any info gratefully received.

  5. #105
    kakera Katrean Shard's Avatar
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    It's really hard to find informations on this!
    I read that the flag was officially adopted as Japan's national flag in 1870, and that the white field is symbolic of "honesty and purity". Also some details about the precise positioning of the red disk which is nearer the pole end of the flag. The characters for 'Nihon' or 'Nippon' can be translated as "origin of the sun" or "land of the rising sun", I guess it is called this because of location in the East, so, if you are in another part of Asia (for example) you look at the rising sun and it is rising from the direction of Japan. But I don't know whether this was the reason for the flag symbol or not.

    According to the online Encyclopaedia Britannica, "the first concrete evidence that testifies to use of a sun flag for Japan dates from 1184". The Encyclopaedia also associates it with the tradition that Japan was founded by the sun goddess Amaterasu. This seems a likely origin for the flag.

  6. #106
    The Akita Hachiko's Avatar
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    Course not. You can make some kick-*** bikinis with that.

  7. #107
    Custom Graphix Artist Martialartsnovice's Avatar
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    Interesting, Seems there is some mystery behind the creation of Japan
    gTo every man there comes a time in his lifetime that special moment when he is figuratively tapped on the shoulder and offered the chance to do a very special thing unique to him and fitted to his talent; what a tragedy if that moment finds him unprepared or unqualified for the work which would be his finest hour.h

    Sir Winston Churchill

  8. #108
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    Actually it matters little if Japan abandons the Rising Sun flag or not.It's different from German Nazi flag anyway.We shouldn't ask Japan to give up everything it used during wartime,right?It's up to itself to make a decision and has nothing to do with other countries.HOWEVER,if it's me to make that decision,I'll abandon using the flag.The political environment towards Japan isn't that bright already,don't give others another chance to criticize.

  9. #109
    tsuyaku o tsukete kudasai nurizeko's Avatar
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    If japan has to give up the ray sun flag, america has to give up its stars and stripes, britain the union jack, and every other country.

    I think weve concluded that the 16 ray flag is a creation to symbolise and represent japan, not any unacceptable political ideals, so just as america has comnmited some regrettable things flying the old glory, japan has obviously commited dark things while their flag flew, but it doesnt make the flag evil, merely the governments who ran the show at the time.

    If a US president commits crimes, you dont impeach the flag, you impeach the person or people responsible.

  10. #110
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    What are the "Nips" proud of anyway? They've copied everything under the sun (sic) so probably they borrowed that 16 sunray symbol from China.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by celtician
    What are the "Nips" proud of anyway? They've copied everything under the sun (sic) so probably they borrowed that 16 sunray symbol from China.
    Funny comments anyway.

  12. #112
    ƒIƒE[ƒ}ƒPƒXƒRƒ“ƒoƒCƒlƒd AllMakesCombined's Avatar
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    I probably have the same opinion on the rising sun flag as I do with the dixie/rebel flag. Despite it's history that it represents, I still think one should have the right to wave it. If it's earned a negative image through history then the one who displays it should expect and deal with the dirty looks they'll get.

    The dixie/rebel flag is actually not a symbol of slavery, since that's not what the civil war was actually about, yet most flag-wavers are also wrong about it's symbolism. Many US southerners will argue that it's a part of American history and therefore should be proudly displayed. I, on the other hand see it as a rather anti-American symbol. The dixie flag represented the armies formed by the states wishing to defect from the industrialized union. The industrialization of the United States contributed greatly to it's success as a nation. Since the flag essentially represents "not wanting to be a part of the United States", it's very un-American to me. People that are aware of it's true meaning that proudly display it might be better off buying or discovering their own little island where the can live like the Amish in peace. Even so, as Americans, they have every right to wave a dixie flag, nazi flag, or even an Al Qaeda banner if they want. It's their right, as Americans, if they really feel like looking like a bunch of radical segregationalist idiots.

    I haven't studied the rights endowed to the Japanese enough to know if they are granted similar freedoms. I'm going to guess and say it can't be that much different than the US. If Japan is to be considered as free of a country as the US (and there are many countries more 'free' than the US), then the rising sun flag shouldn't be banned at all. Regardless of how negative of a symbol many people might consider it, I believe the right to display it should be maintained.

    Of course, I'm far from an expert on this manner and actually didn't realize there was a specific meaning behind the rising sun flag other than it being a WWII-era Japanese symbol until I read this thread.

    Not that it would change my opinion any, but I'm curious as to how popluar of a notion that the flag is a negative symbol among Japanese citizens. Does anyone have any input on this?

    Keep in mind, my opinion may just be a result of my very "American" way of thinking.

  13. #113
    tsuyaku o tsukete kudasai nurizeko's Avatar
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    The confederate flagh being "not american" is probably fine, many people who fly it actually probably do have the wish to be in the confederacy rather then the union.

    I always did wonder if the states and confederation fought each other to a stalemate so that two nations occupied continental USA instead of the giant we have now.

  14. #114
    ƒIƒE[ƒ}ƒPƒXƒRƒ“ƒoƒCƒlƒd AllMakesCombined's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nurizeko
    I always did wonder if the states and confederation fought each other to a stalemate so that two nations occupied continental USA instead of the giant we have now.

    My personal theory is that you'd have the slightly smaller C.S.A. (Confederate States of America), would be primarily farmland, crops, and oil, and the U.S.A (United States of America) producing technology, automobiles, banking, etc... Both countries would be mlitary allies and would trade freely. There are less civil rights in the CSA, as Bush is president there. The USA has some Libertarian or Democratic president. USA opposes Israeli support bias while the CSA favors it. Prohibition would have never happened in the north, and thus, hemp is legal, while the farmlands of the south aren't allowed to grow it. There is also a North American passport, and both countries use the same currency called the Americo or Amero. There is no slavery in either country, though the USA critisizes the CSA for not requiring citizenship or visas for hispanic immigrants to work on their farms for pennies a day. There are two Californias, each in a different country... United California and Confederate California. The capital of the CSA is either Atlanta, Georgia or Austin, Texas.

    That's just using my imagination, though... I like to imagine alternate time lines

  15. #115
    Regular Member Duman's Avatar
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    Despite what historic (WW2) conotations it may have, the Kyokujitsu-ki doesn't really stand with the Swastika globally and many wouldn't associate it with right-wing-ness I wouldn't have thought.

    I for one really like that flag for the Japanese military, I've got one actually (I collect flags)

  16. #116
    Michael O'Brien irishlight42's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=–¼–³‚µ]Those who feel that Japan should abandon kyokujitsuki had better demand the corporate flag of a certain pro-communist newspaper publisher to be abandoned first.
    They are the only Japanese media praising Cultural Revolution, and kept the QUOTE]

    They are also one of the few newspapers in Japan which acknowledges Japanese atrocities during the war (I've read Senso: The Japanese Remember the Pacific War). South Korea is a Democracy, Taiwan is becoming a Democracy (thanks to the Democratic Progressive Party there rising to opposition against the nationalist Kuomintang after all these years).

    As we'd say in the U.S., they staff of the Asahi Shimbun are not commies.... they are pinkos! Naturally, you don't like what they have to say, because they're "anti-Japanese" by bringing out the stories of WWII and therefore not hardcore nationalists.

    They do not support communist China, but they do care for the people of communist China because supporting human beings all around the world is only proper, as opposed to just caring about Japanese lives. People are all human beings, and thus the Asahi Shimbun supports the people of China, not the government

    Thing about the Rising Sun flag, is that even though it is not just about WWII, firstly it has come to be a symbol of what happened during the war (why the Confederate flag, really just meant to be symbolic of the Confederate soldier originally became a symbol of evil; it was used at rallies by pro-segregationists during the "Civil Rights" era in the U.S.). Secondly, and perhaps moreover, even before WWII it was a symbol of Imperial Japan (which has some unpopularity with Korean going back prior to WWII). Japan is a democracy, and as a democracy should try not to embrace the old ways, however I still am not sure that the Rising Sun flag exactly embraces that.

    I basically think that the flag is alright, UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS! It should not be used just to "show one's patriotism". As nothing but a Naval flag, I think it's just fine. Like the Confederate flag doesn't have to be an offensive symbol in the U.S. (we had a civil war BETWEEN our ancestors, and it's symbolic of heritage), but in the wrong place it can also become a symbol of evil (KKK, segregationists, etc.)

    Anyways, so those are my thoughts. Be aware of what it is (not originally meant to be a symbol of evil), but also what it symbolizes to some people (under certain circumstances it can still become a bad symbol.)

  17. #117
    Japanese American Hapa Matthew Ota's Avatar
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    I do not think the Japanese Ensign should be banned. I think it is more beautiful than the hino-maru. I own one.

    Matthew Ota

  18. #118
    Ground Oddity
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    If I can compare,
    The Italian Flag had really little variation before during and after the fascist regimeand we too have commited crimes in our colonies.

    Eventually after sending away the King we removed the coat of arms from the flag whereas the fascist banners were outlawed

    Planet Scotland is Blue and there's nothing I can do!!!

  19. #119
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    burakumin....
    why were they discriminated??
    Because it was from principle of pfilthy or dirty( âq‚êŽå‹`j.
    many of ppls do not want to see them.
    many of ppl want to cover the stinky one......



    however there is no fault in flag, too
    I think those ppl might become discriminator easily ?
    Last edited by caster51; Aug 11, 2006 at 12:53.

  20. #120
    Sister Earth Goldiegirl's Avatar
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    The flag is cool. I don't think it should be abandoned. It looks exceptional when blowing in the wind. I don't mind that it was used by the navy. It's not necessary to change a flag because it was used in a war. I think most that are around right now have been involved in a war, conflict or dispute.
    I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it. ~Jack Handey

  21. #121
    Regular Member hanachan's Avatar
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    When the new Japanese Navy (Maritime Self-Defense Force) was reorganized in 1954, the Government once tried to renew its Naval flag. Because they worried about criticism from the people who don't like a former Naval flag.
    An famous artist who was asked for designing brought a new flag to the Government and said, "It's the only one that I could think. If you don't like it, you should ask another person."
    The new flag was the totally same as a former flag.

    Off topic:
    By the way, this 16-rays rising sun flag (ˆ®“úŠø:kyokujituki) is a Navel ensign. Every country's Navy has its own. It is usually flown at the tail of a ship to show its nationality. The US Navy has an interesting one which is drawn "a rattlesnake" in the center of a flag. Have you seen it? If anyone knows what it means, tell me please.

  22. #122
    Sister Earth Goldiegirl's Avatar
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    It comes from and older flag that said "Don't Tread On Me". Basically don't attack the US this is our warning, just as a rattlesnake rattles it's tail to warn you not to step on it. Also it started when England had wanted to send convicts to the US when it was a colony and the US colonies suggested that they should send rattlesnakes to England. They were trying to make a point, don't send us criminals and we won't send you snakes!

    Sorry, I forgot to mention that I know this is off topic...I just wanted to give hanachan a quick answer...
    Last edited by Goldiegirl; May 27, 2007 at 01:33. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  23. #123
    Regular Member hanachan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldiegirl View Post
    I just wanted to give hanachan a quick answer...
    Thank you for replying to me so quickly! Doumo Arigatou!
    It's an interesting story.
    Every nation has a tradition. It should be respected, I think.
    Thank you again, Goldiegirl!

  24. #124
    Regular Member KirinMan's Avatar
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    Every nation has a tradition. It should be respected, I think.
    However I feel it all depends on the tradition, that is if it should be respected or not.

  25. #125
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    Banzai!! And i still think in it!! Banzai!! for the emperor and for japan a loud BANZAI!!

    Just kidding i think i've seen too much Letters from Iwo Jima lately =S

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