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Thread: Japan disliked by 60% of neighbours

  1. #26
    tsuyaku o tsukete kudasai nurizeko's Avatar
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    Asian countries still got a long way to come to leave this nationalistic pride feuled hatred behind.

    I know WW2 sucked *** but jesus, everyone suffered, get over it.

  2. #27
    Regular Member Han Chan's Avatar
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    It would seem like the political leaders in both Korea, China and Japan are succeeding to divert the frustration of their populations by drumming up fear and distrust towards their neighbors. If this Asian "cold war" continues to escalate it, could eventually lead to real confrontation. Very sad indeed!

  3. #28
    Life is adventure Thunderthief's Avatar
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    Racial hatred is so pointless, people need to get over the past and let bygones be bygones. Most of the people from that era are dead, or elderly at this point, problem is they passed there hatred onto there children and the cycle repeats.

  4. #29
    Seeing is believing Minty's Avatar
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    I think that they are hated because they are such a strong power over in their portion of the world. When you have money and success, people tend to get jealous, anywhere that you go.
    Japan can concentrate on their economy and becomes wealthy is because America is doing the military protection for her, where as the other Asian countries have to fund their own military costs.

    A lot of countries despise the US, but they really can't do a whole lot about it because we're supplying their butts with imported goods and financial aid.
    I think this has more to do with the war on Iraq and other "International Police Status" the Americans have been acting upon on other nations rather than the financial aids. Despite of the aids, most countries that are not allied with Americans believed the US has mostly only helped them for their own interests.

    Interesting contrast to China's reputation.
    Japan has a good reputation today is because they don't intervene in other people's wars of conflicts, preferring to donate money and a small amount of troops when forced into some reluctant morality.

    But the reason Japan don't intervene with any of those things is because Japan have not been freed from restraint that restrict military cooperation with allies due to her war crimes from the Second World War.

    Actually I am not sure if Japan today is to have a full fledged military she will intervene with other peoplefs wars of conflict or not but the fact is even if they wanted to they canft.

    Japan currently wants constitutional changes, she propose to shift military outlook and encouraging military expansion. Her Asian neighbours who suffered from Japanese war crimes is closely watching for any signs of resurgence of militarism. Many of the Asian neighbours are afraid that Japanfs military genie might be eventually starting to breakout its bottle, 60 years after the end of world wall II.

    The fact that Chinese and Koreans have more unfavourable views on Japan is not surprising at all.

    The Chinese have great deal of causes to disfavour the Japanese, only because of their military control of China and savage handling of Chinese up to WWII. After WWII, a civil war resulted in which the Communist Party, conducted by Mao took over China. Mao was clamant that the Chinese should be grateful to the Japanese because their military control of China served to sabotage the Nationalist Party, helping a communist takeover. Of course any community discrepancy against the authoritative party was not permitted. So we don't really know what most people thought at that time.

    As for the Koreans, the issue of chemical experiments conducted by the Japanese militants on the locals, the issue of comfort women and the issue of Japanese history books used in schools do not mention atrocities committed in WWII during the Second World War have continued to bother them today.

    Those issues also bother the Chinese as well.

    Moreover, the Japanese government is trying to affect that they did nothing incorrect during WWII and the Right wing continues attempting to alter history in Japan. The state of affairs is virtually correspondent to if present-day Germany traversed that the Holocaust happened. Considerably the Chinese and the Koreans were the ones who suffered the most from their war crimes; the level of their resentment would logically be higher.

    Racial hatred is so pointless, people need to get over the past and let bygones be bygones. Most of the people from that era are dead, or elderly at this point, problem is they passed there hatred onto there children and the cycle repeats.
    If Japan stop denying the rape of Nanking and other atrocities and are compliant to accept to that these atrocities did take place I think this cycle of hatred will cease. I also think Japanese prime ministers should not continue to visit the Yasukuni Shrine, dedicated to class A war criminals, annually, after all actions speak louder than words.

  5. #30
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    I agree with Minty. The over-dependence on the usage of popular maxims "forgive and forget" and "let bygones be bygones" and "it's all in the past" is now getting ridiculous, often cited by naive viewpoints that rarely ever get deeper than a superficial perspective. It is in the past, true, but the issue persists into the present because of a historical chain of actions and attitudes. Japan and the Japanese government seem to persist in saving its own face, save for a small minority of wonderful Japanese folks who are willing to try to work things out- it's something that I think will bite it in its rear if that small minority, and the other Asian countries, are ignored.

  6. #31
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    First off the link in the OP no longer works http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-...504280161.html and it redirects the user to the headline page.
    Secondly percentages in any survey can be used to make any number of conclusions about what the person who wrote the survey wishes the data to be.

    99.9999% of the Japanese have never talked with a North Korean (born and raised in NK, not in Japan) and vice versa. North Koreans cannot leave their country, and tourism to NK is almost inexistent.
    I know what you are trying to say but there are numerous North Korean's living in Japan, yes born in North Korea and live in Japan. A friend of mine is married to a woman born and raised in North Korea. You are going a bit too far by implying that nearly 100% of the people don't know a person born there, or from there.

    Koreans in Japan are called Zainichi Chosenjin (ݓNl, for North Koreans) or Zainichi Kankokujin (ݓ؍l, for South Koreans) in Japanese and Jaeil Gyopo (재일교포) in Korean. There are 529,000 Koreans in Japan, amounting to 40.4% of the non-Japanese population of the country. Three-quarters of the Koreans living in Japan are Japanese-born, and most are legal aliens
    Notice there is a distinct difference between Zainichi Kankojin and Zainichi Chosenjin. The word Zainichi literally means simply "resident in Japan

    There are many "famous" people in Japan that are either Zainichi Kankokujin or Zainichi Chosenjin. Did you know that Wada Akiko is one as well? She was born Kim Bok Ja and had her name "Japanized" to Kaneumi Fukuko.
    http://www.japan-zone.com/modern/wada_akiko.shtml

  7. #32
    Regular Member godppgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastmagi
    I agree with Minty. The over-dependence on the usage of popular maxims "forgive and forget" and "let bygones be bygones" and "it's all in the past" is now getting ridiculous, often cited by naive viewpoints that rarely ever get deeper than a superficial perspective. It is in the past, true, but the issue persists into the present because of a historical chain of actions and attitudes. Japan and the Japanese government seem to persist in saving its own face, save for a small minority of wonderful Japanese folks who are willing to try to work things out- it's something that I think will bite it in its rear if that small minority, and the other Asian countries, are ignored.
    Now you do realize the whole WWII apology thing has been utilized as political tools by both sides.

  8. #33
    Yuyurungul
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    Yes, but that's relevant to what I wrote because......?

    Besides, it should be obvious it's not exclusively a political tool. Otherwise, why would people outside of those countries also feel so strongly about it?

    Anyway, what I'm concerned about regarding the whole issue is more focused on morality, the general irresponsibility of owning up to the past only superficially, and the cultural barriers that prevent more understanding.

  9. #34
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    Well to be honest. The japanese feel they are not Asian in some way?????
    But what way is that??

  10. #35
    Seeing is believing Minty's Avatar
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    Now you do realize the whole WWII apology thing has been utilized as political tools by both sides.
    I agree with lastmagi here, this is about ethics and conscience, I would like to see Japan modelling Germany of the way they handle the Second World War issues.

    Well to be honest. The japanese feel they are not Asian in some way?????
    But what way is that??
    Japanese people think they are incomparable and they think that their culture are dissimilar to any other in the globe. They think they are different particularly with either Westerners (often exemplify by Americans) or Asians such as the Chinese and (and to a smaller level) the Koreans. Itfs called nihonjinron {l_.

  11. #36
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    i don't really disagree with anything

    just pointing out that many of these countries mentioned not liking japan don't really like any other countries either
    plus the ones that choose to live in america and make money off of america are just as racist as any japanese/american person i've met...
    please look up racist remarks about condoleeza rice's visit to china -- i don't approve of the person or their politics/ethics, but referring to ANYBODY as an species of ape or subhuman is pretty foul (imo)
    ttp://www.tcvb.or.jp/

  12. #37
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    "Disliked by 60% of neighbors" is an exaggeration.
    What about the rest of Asia???

  13. #38
    Banned osias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minty
    I agree with lastmagi here, this is about ethics and conscience, I would like to see Japan modelling Germany of the way they handle the Second World War issues.
    Japanese people think they are incomparable and they think that their culture are dissimilar to any other in the globe. They think they are different particularly with either Westerners (often exemplify by Americans) or Asians such as the Chinese and (and to a smaller level) the Koreans. Itfs called nihonjinron {l_.
    If anyone did something wrong, s/he has to apologize. That's true.
    Actually, Japanese ppl tend to apologize more for so many things daily (even if it's not really their mistake) than the Chinese/Koreans do. You hear Japanese ppl saying, "sorry for this, sorry for that" everyday. Mistakes are forgiven.

    In contrast, the Chinese/Koreans are not good at admitting their mistakes because saving their own "face" is the highest priority, and also because others will take advantage of them, once they admit their mistakes and apologize. Korea/China tend to avoid their responsibility and blame others, instead. There is a cultural difference.

    So maybe apologies do not work with China or Korea.
    What a taiwanese scholariYj says is that China has been taking advantage of Japan's apologies, and will continue to do so..Compensation is never-ending. Korea even blames Japan for the invasion 500 years ago.

    Japan has been helping these countries, but all the good things she has done to them are almost unknown to their ppl. Are they deliberately hiding the good things Japan has done to make Japan look like an absolute evil?

    It's either domination or obedience..Why do China/Korea keep telling the Japanese that they are Japan's "elder brothers" and "teachers"? China still calls Japan {??
    Last edited by osias; Apr 14, 2006 at 15:56.

  14. #39
    Seeing is believing Minty's Avatar
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    If anyone did something wrong, s/he has to apologize. That's true.
    Actually, Japanese ppl tend to apologize more for so many things daily (even if it's not really their mistake) than the Chinese/Koreans do. You hear Japanese ppl saying, "sorry for this, sorry for that" everyday. Mistakes are forgiven.
    I donft think apologies mean much when the Japanese government try to affect that they did nothing incorrect during WWII and the Right wing continues attempting to alter history in Japan. The state of affairs is virtually correspondent to if present-day Germany traversed that the Holocaust happened.

    In contrast, the Chinese/Koreans are not good at admitting their mistakes because saving their own "face" is the highest priority, and also because others will take advantage of them, once they admit their mistakes and apologize. Korea/China tend to avoid their responsibility and blame others, instead. There is a cultural difference.
    Korea and China are not first world countries so you cannot expect them to reach that stage yet. However I believe they are on the way to become developed nations. Since Japan is already a first world country then she should act like one, and not try to deny her past.

    So maybe apologies do not work with China or Korea.
    What a taiwanese scholariYj says is that China has been taking advantage of Japan's apologies, and will continue to do so..Compensation is never-ending.
    And the Taiwanese donft have their own political agenda to gain independence?

    Korea even blames Japan for the invasion 500 years ago.
    Aboriginals still blame white Australians for their invasion of their country, so do many others. This is the way it is.

    Japan has been helping these countries, but all the good things she has done to them are almost unknown to their ppl. Are they deliberately hiding the good things Japan has done to make Japan look like an absolute evil?
    I believe if Japan stop denying the rape of Nanking and other atrocities and Japanese prime ministers stop to visit the Yasukuni Shrine, dedicated to class A war criminals, annually, the good things Japanese today are doing will work.
    It's either domination or obedience..Why do China/Korea keep telling the Japanese that they are Japan's "elder brothers" and "teachers"? China still calls Japan {??
    This is deep-seated Sino centric mentality as ancient China was the "dominant cultural focush for the domain for over 2000 years, there is a scrap of sinocentricism among some modern day Chinese.
    Last edited by Minty; Apr 15, 2006 at 01:12.

  15. #40
    Regular Member godppgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osias
    It's either domination or obedience..Why do China/Korea keep telling the Japanese that they are Japan's "elder brothers" and "teachers"? China still calls Japan {??
    You know what's funny. Some Taiwanese have this { mentality as well. I mean what part of Japan is "smaller" than Taiwan?

  16. #41
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    Yes, Japan should apologize and compensate until she ends up smtg like this
    http://aog.2y.net/forums/uploads/post-5-1119199368.jpg
    just kidding..(did anyone delete the previous posting?)

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minty
    I donft think apologies mean much when the Japanese government try to affect that they did nothing incorrect during WWII and the Right wing continues attempting to alter history in Japan. The state of affairs is virtually correspondent to if present-day Germany traversed that the Holocaust happened.
    Korea and China are not first world countries so you cannot expect them to reach that stage yet. However I believe they are on the way to become developed nations. Since Japan is already a first world country then she should act like one, and not try to deny her past.
    And the Taiwanese donft have their own political agenda to gain independence?
    Aboriginals still blame white Australians for their invasion of their country, so do many others. This is the way it is.
    I believe if Japan stop denying the rape of Nanking and other atrocities and Japanese prime ministers stop to visit the Yasukuni Shrine, dedicated to class A war criminals, annually, the good things Japanese today are doing will work.
    This is deep-seated Sino centric mentality as ancient China was the "dominant cultural focush for the domain for over 2000 years, there is a scrap of sinocentricism among some modern day Chinese.
    Japan is not a totalitarian state, and opinions do vary within the country.
    When the Right wing is saying "A", the Left wing is saying "B". We can't stop that from happening. The right wing does not represent the country's official opinion. There is no consensus within the country (or outside the country) as to what has happened in the past. There are different views of history. Different@j.

    I don't think that Japan denies anything, the government has been making official apologies, but there is no agreement as to what she has to apologize for...Japan does not think she has to accept everything that China/Korea accuse her of. Actually, some J-ppl are getting tired of what they see as false accusations.

    You also have to note that some historians from Japan, China & Korea are trying to fill this perception gap, and they actually cooperated to publish a history textbook which is common to all three countries. (I don't remember the title, what was it??) This textbook was mostly pro-China & pro-Korea.

    The Yasukuni Shrine is not dedicated to the war criminals. It's a common misconception. It's dedicated to those who died in the past wars.

    You are a Chinese, indeed.
    Last edited by osias; Apr 16, 2006 at 03:53.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by godppgo
    You know what's funny. Some Taiwanese have this { mentality as well. I mean what part of Japan is "smaller" than Taiwan?
    I was also wondering about that. Perhaps because they still believe that ROC still covers all over mainland China. Overall, Taiwanese ppl are rather friendly, but they also have a similar mentality as the Chinese in PRC.

  19. #44
    Seeing is believing Minty's Avatar
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    You are a Chinese, indeed.
    The problem with you is you are unable to accept criticism about your country yet you like to generalize Koreans and Chinese.

    If you can't take somebodyfs criticism on your own country, then it's wrong for you to criticise somebody elsefs.

    I have criticised my own people if I think they did wrong but my intentions were not for the sake of causing offence, so I wouldnft say I am blindly defending Chinese or Korean people or criticising Japanese. I say what I think is right.

    The reason I join this forum is not to pick out fights so, it seems that the arguments we have discussed are going that way and I think I would no longer respond, because it is pointless.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minty
    The problem with you is you are unable to accept criticism about your country yet you like to generalize Koreans and Chinese.
    If you can't take somebodyfs criticism on your own country, then it's wrong for you to criticise somebody elsefs.
    I have criticised my own people if I think they did wrong but my intentions were not for the sake of causing offence, so I wouldnft say I am blindly defending Chinese or Korean people or criticising Japanese. I say what I think is right.
    The reason I join this forum is not to pick out fights so, it seems that the arguments we have discussed are going that way and I think I would no longer respond, because it is pointless.
    So I'm not allowed to say I don't agree with you, but you can disagree with me?? I'm saying what I think is right, just like you do. If anything's mistaken, plz be free to say so. I might be wrong.

    Different views..
    I thought there were some misunderstandings..

  21. #46
    puzzled gaijin
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    Japan is not a totalitarian state, and opinions do vary within the country.
    When the Right wing is saying "A", the Left wing is saying "B". We can't stop that from happening. The right wing does not represent the country's official opinion. There is no consensus within the country (or outside the country) as to what has happened in the past. There are different views of history. Different@j.
    This is both correct and incorrect. Certainly there is no one opinion, but I would say the government and the media are quite right wing, so guess which opinions get more press? Guess what groups controls the country?

    I don't think that Japan denies anything, the government has been making official apologies, but there is no agreement as to what she has to apologize for...Japan does not think she has to accept everything that China/Korea accuse her of. Actually, some J-ppl are getting tired of what they see as false accusations.
    No, actually the apologies have been very general, not actually mentioning the comfort women or Nanjing. The Japanese government also refuses to provide compensation to anyone in Korea or China affected by the war as well, hiding behind treaties that were signed before it was known how many civilians had been tortured and killed. As to false accusations, yes, there are many made on on three sides; Korean, Chinese, and Japanese. The Japanese are hardly in a position to pretend to be innocent.

    You also have to note that some historians from Japan, China & Korea are trying to fill this perception gap, and they actually cooperated to published a history textbook which is common to all three countries. (I don't remember the title, what was it??) This textbook was mostly pro-China & pro-Korea.
    IT's true, again some historians, but I would say they are in the minority. Ienaga's textbook lawsuit has been a long standing one, but generally many citizens in Japan seem to be unaware of it.

    The Yasukuni Shrine
    is not dedicated to the war criminals. It's a common misconception. It's dedicated to those who died in the past wars.
    This is technically true. There are many people who are not war criminals that are buried in the Yasukuni Shrine, as well as some people who don't want to be buried there (Koreans and Taiwanese who were forced to fight for the Japanese), and the war criminals. It's a private shrine, so in some ways the government can't control what goes on there (though I would think they , the government, could decide that it is a good idea to not keep going there).

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijinalways
    I would say the government and the media are quite right wing,
    Describe more what you mean right wing in Japan...
    Japan liberal media needs to criticize themselves on what they did in the past, though I don't think Japan media needs o'reilly-like guys.

    And buried in the shrine? sigh...

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijinalways
    This is both correct and incorrect. Certainly there is no one opinion, but I would say the government and the media are quite right wing, so guess which opinions get more press? Guess what groups controls the country?
    Do you think so?
    It really depends, Asahi is pretty left, some ppl even say this is an anti-Japan newspaper.

    No, actually the apologies have been very general, not actually mentioning the comfort women or Nanjing. The Japanese government also refuses to provide compensation to anyone in Korea or China affected by the war as well, hiding behind treaties that were signed before it was known how many civilians had been tortured and killed. As to false accusations, yes, there are many made on on three sides; Korean, Chinese, and Japanese. The Japanese are hardly in a position to pretend to be innocent.
    [/B]
    Maybe, the government mentions the atrocities ambiguously to avoid confrontations with other countries.

    We just know that different ppl are saying different things about Nanjing & comfort women. Younger generations have never witnessed anything, so one story is no more convincing than another. Different interests are involved, so it's difficult to come up with one answer.

    About the textbooks..You don't have to stick to one single answer. Just let the kids know that it's a controversial topic, and that different ppl are claiming different things..China & Korea are trying to push on Japan to take up their view, I think this is a kind of VS, but there is no need to..

    http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8D%...AB%96%E4%BA%89
    Last edited by osias; Apr 16, 2006 at 07:57.

  24. #49
    Regular Member bossel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osias
    some ppl even say this is an anti-Japan newspaper.
    Which probably says something about these people who say so.

    Maybe, the government mentions the atrocities ambiguously to avoid confrontations with other countries.
    Strangely, it's just this ambiguity which leads to confrontations. Are you sure?

    About the textbooks..You don't have to stick to one single answer. Just let the kids know that it's a controversial topic, and that different ppl are claiming different things..
    That sounds like this crappy creationist talk: "Let us teach Intelligent Design in biology because there are people who claim it is scientific."

  25. #50
    tsuyaku o tsukete kudasai nurizeko's Avatar
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    This is so old, both sides are claiming to be innocence abused, the other portrayed as the devil of asia.

    I think everyone needs a f***ing smashed brick across the gob, then maybe these f***ers will stop being such pathetic little children and once and for all sit down and sort this s*** out.

    I'm so tired of reading these fight-night threads, the chinese bashing on the japanese while sniping at the koreans, the koreans thrashing wildly at everyone else, the japanese smacking the other two with a soft white glove before retreating behind the economic and sea wall.

    FFS everyone, grow up and start behaving like adults, you make european imperialism look like a good idea.

    Europe had it pretty bad bloody s***ty but for all that hatred and distrust of each other we learned to overcome our differences and create a continent more unified then any other.

    If britons can forget the years of bombing raids and terror of invasion, if the germans can forgive the dresden bombings and russian atrocities, if the russians can get over their dead, if everyone can just swallow it down and take one for the team for a better future for the next generation, then for gods sake asia......step up and do the same.



    - A very sick and tired Nuri

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